What does re-opening look like?

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
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Or passing a plate of money from hand to hand.
Aside: I wonder if this YKW is going to kill cash transactions for good. No one is taking cash right now, so is anyone carrying it?
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
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12,983
Aside: I wonder if this YKW is going to kill cash transactions for good. No one is taking cash right now, so is anyone carrying it?
A lot of stalls at farmers markets still only accept cash. Also, really small restaurants and banks only cash or debit, to avoid credit card fees. I have had to go to the bank ATM twice since lockdown to get more cash. For the longest time, I had the same twenty in my wallet.
 

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
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36,713
wow. here, no one is taking cash, AKAIK. I have not been to any farmer's markets that have reopened - but most if not all the vendors also accept cards, and before the shutdown, many were not accepting cash.

I did get quarters from the supermarket a few weeks ago. I was worried they would not accept my cash - but I went to the customer service queue, not the cashier line.
 
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7,825
Most places will take cash here. Our money is plastic though and if one was so inclined you could pretty easily disinfect it. I don’t, if I’m somewhere I’m paying for something I’m using hand sanitizer or washing my hands thoroughly anyway. I’ve used cash a few times because I’ve ended up with it from selling stuff. I always ask first if the cashier is okay with it.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
522
Every place I've been to here still takes cash. If an item is under $10, I always pay cash instead of using a debit or credit card.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
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674
I think a movie theatre, with social distancing, would be safer than a church with social distancing. The getting in and out of both is a huge problem, but at least at a movie theatre, no one has ever tried to hug me or shake my hand, and there is definitely no singing!
And cinemas generally have assigned seating, so they can enforce social distancing that way.
 

cholla

High ground loner
Messages
12,100
I don't know how things are in the rest of France but in my area, cash is accepted nowhere. My cash has been resting in my purse for the past 3 months. It's really weird for me to see debits of sums as low as € 1 or 2 on my bank app. I wouldn't have thought I'd be one day paying bread with a credit card :lol:
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
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49,944
Tell that to the 40 million... Let me repeat that number... FORTY MILLION... Americans who have filed for unemployment in the past 2 months. What's the number of known cases in the US today? 1.5 million? Let's be generous and say that the number of known cases is underestimated by 25%. That would give us 2 million infected. Or, roughly, 5% the number of currently unemployed due to this shutdown.
This is essentially an argument about cost, which brings up some interesting questions. I have no answers, but the issue is explored in these articles:

How Much Is a Human Life Actually Worth?
Johns Hopkins economist: 'Reopening an infected economy is no shortcut' to financial recovery
President Rightly Concerned That ******** In White House Undermines His Case For Reopening The Economy
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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23,080
I honestly cannot remember the last time I had cash in my wallet. It has probably been a couple of months.
 

canbelto

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3,595
What percentage of cases is acceptable? Until this is no more deadly than the yearly flu strain? Tell that to the 40 million... Let me repeat that number... FORTY MILLION... Americans who have filed for unemployment in the past 2 months. What's the number of known cases in the US today? 1.5 million? Let's be generous and say that the number of known cases is underestimated by 25%. That would give us 2 million infected. Or, roughly, 5% the number of currently unemployed due to this shutdown.
Not to belabor the obvious, but if you're unemployed you can usually get a job. I've drifted through periods of unemployment in my life. It was awful but I got through it.
Dead, however, is dead. No un-deading yourself.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
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12,198
Not to belabor the obvious, but if you're unemployed you can usually get a job. I've drifted through periods of unemployment in my life. It was awful but I got through it.
Dead, however, is dead. No un-deading yourself.
Furthermore, how strong is the economy going to be if people continue to get sick and hospitals are at or over capacity? The problem in the US and U.K. is that they started their shut down, for the most part, too late and then didn’t shut down enough. They are now opening up without having down the work required during the shut down. Essentially getting the worst case scenario on both ends.

History tells us that those who shut down early and were careful with opening ended up with the quickest economic recovery. But let us remember, that in the US this has nothing to do with safety or health or economic recovery. It has everything to do with the perception of economic recovery come November. Anyone who thinks social media is not being flooded with Russian and Republican trolls stirring up unrest and reopen campaigns, well, I have a bridge I would like to sell you. They don’t care what happens after the election. How many will die or lose their jobs and homes. They only care about power and money for themselves and their buddies. Getting a quick fix for the economy, even if it means a devastating second wave late in the year, is what they want.
 

skateboy

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6,912
Today a worker at our not-too-crowded supermarket told me of a customer who created a major sh!tstorm for being required to wear a mask. What's the big damn deal? If they can't stand wearing a mask, they're going to hate being on a ventilator.

I'm so tired of idiots whining about their "freedoms" being taken away, when it's really their own self-pity disguised as patriotism. Grrrrr.

I do understand those that have no choice but to go back to work. I'm sure that most are taking precautions as best they can.

Didn't help that I lost a second friend to BB today, with another (late forties, no pre-existing conditions) who has been struggling on a ventilator since March 15.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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19,739
Not to belabor the obvious, but if you're unemployed you can usually get a job. I've drifted through periods of unemployment in my life. It was awful but I got through it.
Dead, however, is dead. No un-deading yourself.
I think the question is are we merely delaying of postponing deaths many businesses won’t reopen.

There has to be reasonable restrictions. But a global disruption to the supply chain can lead to starvation.

I do want to slap the people who refuse masks it’s a simple ask if all wear won the rate will go down big time.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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27,808
Cash always has to be an option, because not everyone has the resources to qualify for a bank account/debit card or credit card.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,161
What's the number of known cases in the US today? 1.5 million? Let's be generous and say that the number of known cases is underestimated by 25%. That would give us 2 million infected. Or, roughly, 5% the number of currently unemployed due to this shutdown.
The number of infections is at 2 million give or take (worldometer lists the number at 1.7 million) because of the shelter-in-place orders and shutdowns.
I really don't want to know what it would have looked like without those orders.
 

Karen-W

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4,035
Not to belabor the obvious, but if you're unemployed you can usually get a job. I've drifted through periods of unemployment in my life. It was awful but I got through it.
Dead, however, is dead. No un-deading yourself.
Please don't condescend to me (or anyone) about unemployment. For a lot of people who are losing their businesses (some that have been in their families for generations) this isn't merely about going through a period of unemployment. It is about losing a part of their soul and "getting a job" isn't the same at all - on a multitude of levels. To some people, losing that, they can feel that they might as well be dead.

But, it occurred to me as I circled back to this particular thread this evening... This is supposed to be a discussion about what re-opening is looking like where everyone is at. There are a lot of people chiming in not about what re-opening actually looks like but about peddling/pushing their #stayathome agenda. So, I will tell you what I experienced this weekend.

I forgot my mask on Friday when I went to Joann's and I felt awful about it since I think I might have been the only one in the store who wasn't wearing one between all the staff and customers. The hours at my local Joann's have been extended so they're now open until 7pm (yay!) and there was only about a 5 min wait to get in the store. The cotton section is still picked over but I was able to find what I wanted/needed and they no longer are restricting interfacing to 2 yards per customer.

On Saturday, my niece's youth group went to Wildlife Safari in southern Oregon for a social distanced fun trip (county has been open since May 15th). I had to stop and get gas on the way - attendants were wearing masks and gloves but they washed my windshield, so yay for full service being back! Wildlife Safari was PACKED. Everyone seemed to have the same, bright, "perfect social distancing trip on a gorgeous holiday weekend!" idea. There was a line to get in the park, the parking lot was full, the outdoor village was open. Anecdotally, I'd say it was 50-50 between mask wearers and non-mask wearers. I rolled my eyes at the family who had their children (all under 10) wearing masks but the parents/adults weren't. People weren't social distancing much inside the village area so we spent maybe 5 minutes there chatting with the other people in our group who had driven themselves before we drove through the park. All of the staff were wearing masks and gloves and clearly happy to be working. After the park, we went through the McDonald's drive through. Again, masks, gloves and very quick service in spite of a few cars in front of us. I saw cars with Washington and California plates while driving on I-5. I fully expect to have Kate Brown wagging her scraggly finger during some press conference tomorrow at all the Oregonians who chose to disregard her "local trips only" orders.

My parents came over yesterday from central Oregon to help my brother with his backyard landscaping project. My mom reported that she and my niece went to Lowe's and were helped by great staff who were masked and gloved when handling her debit card. My niece has said that once the seating area opens at the fast food restaurant where she works next week they will be required to wear gloves and masks at all times. I assume the same is true for my nephew at the fast food establishment where he works but I haven't checked.

Today, I ordered Domino's for dinner and it was a lovely contactless delivery - again, driver was gloved and masked.

I'm not sure how socially distanced I will stay this week. My niece needs something I just made for her this weekend (the reason for the Joann's trip on Friday) so she will either come up here some evening this week or I'll be down there next weekend. The way I see it, things are opening up regardless. Do it safely, do it sanely, do it respectfully, do it carefully, but don't live in fear. I mean, I could have died this weekend if I had lost control of my car when a plate came flying out of the slightly open window of the RV ahead of me in the next lane. I didn't. And that's the point. Death comes when death comes.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
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23,178
I'm willing to take that risk because this is what freedom means. "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
We're not talking about 'a little temporary safety' here. We are talking about sickness and health, life and death.

I don't want to get the BB. I am happy to comply with health authorities because I don't want to get sick or transmit the ***** to anyone else.

Seriously @Louis. This is not about left v. right. I'm sure there are plenty of right-oriented home who are taking precautions not get sick. It's just common sense right now.

You're a smart man, @Louis. So it is perplexing that you don't seem to get it that is about life and death, for you as an individual and for any communities you are part of. For millions of people, actually.

I was born a rebel but I have no desire to rebel against health authorities and scientists at this time. I don't want to get sick and maybe die, or get sick and cause others to get sick and maybe die. There is nothing political about it.

And, thanks for your concern, but I've had an independent streak since I was a child, have always lived in my life in ways counter to the way in which I was raised, and think I'd be quite fine with or without the American left.
Again, why are making this a right-left issue? Do you have evidence that the majority of the American right opposes restrictions imposed due to the BB?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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Do you have evidence that the majority of the American right opposes restrictions imposed due to the BB?
I have seen survey results for the US where the majority supports stay at home. It did not matter which side of the political fence they sat on.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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14,349
Here are some examples of the problem with surveys (and also a good parallel to what's going on in this thread and others.

The public must lead us out of the lockdown
The political elites have lost the plot over *********-19. The people must take over.
https://www.spiked-online.com/author/brendan-oneill/

During ITV’s report, a man holding a bottle of beer and mingling with his family said something really revealing: ‘I know we’re down here drinking beer… but if we carry on the way we’re going, I think we’re going to have a major lockdown in two weeks… and we’re going to see a massive rise in deaths again.’

So he was breaking the lockdown, or at least infuriating lockdown fanatics, while simultaneously genuflecting to one of the core commandments of the lockdown ideology – that individual bad behaviour can cause social mayhem and even death.... So widespread is lockdown conformism among the opinion-forming set, that people recognise that opposing it is a socially risky business. You’ll be demonised, Twitter-shamed, branded a killer. You will be reduced to a ‘Covidiot’. To be a lockdown apostate, to question the rituals of social distancing, is not a pleasant experience.
Saying one thing and doing another – expressing support for the lockdown while breaking it on the sly – is probably widespread in lockdown Britain. In a sense it’s a healthy hypocrisy, speaking to some people’s scepticism of the lockdown and their willingness to take risks to do things that are essential to the human soul: have a beer on Brighton beach, visit family members, pop into the office, swing by a sexual partner’s house.
These are good things, as nutritious to the individual as food and exercise are. Despite what the lockdown fanatics might think, man cannot live by Morrison’s microwave meals and dog-walking alone. We need connection, engagement, touch, art, religion. It is testament to the nanny state’s successful reduction of human beings to units of health that so many in officialdom think it is acceptable to deprive us of social, spiritual and sexual interaction for so long.
But there is also a serious problem with this ‘healthy hypocrisy’. It confirms the dominance of one way of thinking. It speaks to a tyranny of wisdom – in this case the wisdom of lockdown – that people feel they must bow before even if they disagree with it. [...]

Polls capture – in that partial way that polls do – this tension in lockdown Britain. On one hand, polls show widespread support for the lockdown. At the start of May, a month into this unprecedented shutdown of economic life and social life, an Opinium poll found that four out of five people were in favour of extending the lockdown and were opposed to easing the closure of schools, pubs and restaurants.

But polls also find that people are breaking lockdown. A few days after that Opinium poll, another survey found that 29 per cent of Brits had broken the rules. What was most striking is that this confession to sinfulness by 29 per cent of people was only possible because the poll was anonymous. When polling is not anonymous, when there’s a possibility your name will appear alongside the heresy of breaking lockdown, just three per cent admitted to doing things they aren’t meant to be doing.
Google and Apple data in the US and UK also suggest plenty more people breaking lockdown than admit to it in polls. It's always excusable when it's you, not others....

[...] there is a significant minority of what we might call shy libertines out there – people who have been exercising their freedom in defiance of the strict rules but who are shy about saying so. They live part of their life outside the lockdown, but they tell pollsters the lockdown is great and must continue.
I'd say FSU is also full of these people. :shuffle:

People have been saying things they don’t really believe to pollsters for a long time. And such dishonesty with pollsters tends to grow in times of huge social pressure, when a culture of conformism makes it clear that ‘deviant’ thinking will not be tolerated.
********* conformism must be confronted. In their echo chambers, where they’re all trying to outdo each other in their levels of commitment to smashing *********, the political and media elites have become increasingly blinkered, dogmatic and intolerant on everything related to *********-19. The lack of relaxed, freely stated opposition to their lockdown mania means they become madder and madder in their commitment to it. The corrosion of freedom of thought in relation to *********-19 has deadly consequences, because it means the lockdown endures – nine weeks now – when many people know in their heart of hearts that it is wrong and deeply damaging to the future of this country.
AMEN! :cheer: :cheer2: :cheer: :cheer2:
 

cholla

High ground loner
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12,100
I drove past the roundabout that leads to the (closed) airport a few minutes ago and... the hookers are back 😇 Boobs spilling out of their sequined bras, mini-skirts high above the doo-dah barely covered by a tiny piece of fabric, platform shoes. Two of them were wearing a mask!!! I kid you not :rofl: :rofl:
Prostitution is legal in France but hiring the services of a hooker is not (French logic at its best). They are often dispersed by the cops in normal time because the neighborhood complains about used rubbers littering the area. I guess now they will have to complain about used masks to! :lol: It was such a weird vision I was tempted to stop and take a picture but they surely wouldn't have liked it! I can't help wondering what social distancing means in this line of work. At least I hope they work for themselves and not for a pimp.
 

cholla

High ground loner
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12,100
It means no work, which is probably not tenable for many in the sex trade,
That's what I thought too so, why the mask ? They are outside and not piled up together on the exact same place. I'd be curious to learn what their customers' reaction is.
 

allezfred

#EpidemiologistsNotEconomists
Staff member
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56,143
Here are some examples of the problem with surveys (and also a good parallel to what's going on in this thread and others.

The public must lead us out of the lockdown
The political elites have lost the plot over *********-19. The people must take over.
https://www.spiked-online.com/author/brendan-oneill/
How did I know that when I saw that you had linked Spiked that it would be an article written by renowned gobshite Brendan O’Neill. :rofl:

For those not familiar, Spiked is a far right pro Brexit mouthpiece. Do better Louis, do better.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,997
I drove past the roundabout that leads to the (closed) airport a few minutes ago and... the hookers are back 😇 Boobs spilling out of their sequined bras, mini-skirts high above the doo-dah barely covered by a tiny piece of fabric, platform shoes. Two of them were wearing a mask!!! I kid you not :rofl: :rofl:
...
I can't help wondering what social distancing means in this line of work. At least I hope they work for themselves and not for a pimp.
Use your imagination! I'm sure there are p0rn producers who already have :lol:

More seriously, however, I'm sure sex workers (whether they do it willingly or not) have also been greatly affected by the lockdowns and economic situation.
 

cholla

High ground loner
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12,100
After more than two months of lockdown, also I'm not much into touching strangers, and happy to be a loner (read: a dangerous psychopath with an abominable dark side 😄) I was glad to touch another human body this morning at work. Gloved up, masked up + a face shield (mandatory for health workers until further notice in my region), but still I touched a living creature who was neither a cat nor a dog. Cherry on the cake, it was a young very good looking athlete ❤😇
 

cholla

High ground loner
Messages
12,100
Use your imagination! I'm sure there are p0rn producers who already have :lol:
It was funny, during lockdown, to see that, of all the TV channels that become free of charges, the porn ones were among the first 😄 I assume their rates will go up now to get back (part of) the money they lost in the process. I also assume their viewers will complain about it!
 

canbelto

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3,595
Please don't condescend to me (or anyone) about unemployment. For a lot of people who are losing their businesses (some that have been in their families for generations) this isn't merely about going through a period of unemployment. It is about losing a part of their soul and "getting a job" isn't the same at all - on a multitude of levels. To some people, losing that, they can feel that they might as well be dead.
Don't start that with me. Being unemployed once led to a suicide attempt and several days in a mental institution for me. So I do know how hard it can be. However I do NOT equate it to losing a loved one or losing my life.
 

flyingsit

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11,172
Yesterday’s update from the Colorado Board of Health showed only one *****-19 death in the preceding 24 hours. We have definitely been on a good trajectory, and the governor announced that restaurants can start reopening tomorrow as long as a lot of precautionary measures are taken. Limited capacity, sufficient space between groups, staff must wear masks, people cannot congregate in the entrances waiting for tables, etc. They put out draft guidance and gave the restaurant owners an opportunity to comment before publishing the final document.

Day camps for kids can open next week, again with new guidelines to follow.
 

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