What does re-opening look like?

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
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BTW, there's been a lot written about New Zealand's success, but I came across this interesting article about lesser known examples that seems worth sharing:
The entire continent of Africa had 89 CV19 deaths yesterday. Canada had 98. And the number I find most worrisome is Spain's 688.

Meanwhile, the mystery du jour is positive/negative/positive test results.

WASHINGTON — More than a dozen sailors from the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt have tested positive for *********-19 after they were believed to have recovered, which medical experts say shows how much remains unknown about the ***** that causes the disease.

The episode aboard the carrier, which is now back at sea after being sidelined in Guam since late March by a *********-19 outbreak that infected more than 1,100 members of its roughly 4,900-strong crew, occurred against a backdrop of reports from Germany and South Korea that also found positive test outcomes in previously infected people. The significance of that finding is unclear, according to experts: It most likely reflects the presence of harmless, noninfectious viral particles, but researchers can’t yet rule out the possibility that the patients became reinfected, which would cast doubt on prospects for widespread immunity.
 

Hedwig

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18,282
None of these things may seem essential, but there are people for whom they are meaningful (certainly places of worship) and others for whom they provide their livelihoods.
there are a lot of things I would like to do as well but especially with places of worship I really don't understand why people would go there instead of using other options via the internet. Of course it sucks if this is something that means a lot to you but it has been proven over and over again how dangerous the church setting is and no livelihood depends on it.

and as far as restaurants and fitness centers go - in my opinion the cost to support these businesse from the government would be far less than the cost if a cluster of infections incurs there (as just happened in my county in a restaurant) which needs to be tracked and analyzed with lots of lots in people now in quarantine.

I'd rather we open the essential places and let people live a semi-normal life again than having to shut down everyting quickly again :-(
 

Ania

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495
The lockdown house of cards is crumbling:

After saying he'd veto the bill allowing real estate to resume (and be like the other 49 states), PA Gov. Wolf had to cave and allow it. Then he had to move all of PA to yellow ahead of schedule.
I'm in PA and I have no idea what you are talking about, can you please post links? There were 2 counties that planned to defy Wolf and move themselves to yellow phase ahead of schedule but they backed off. My county (Allegheny) moved to yellow phase on May 15 consistent with the plan that was announced 2 weeks previously. 12 additional counties moving to yellow phase were announced on May 15. I am really curious what you referencing here.
 

Spikefan

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565
The Kansas City Zoo opened and I decided to check it out. You must have a reserved time (regardless if member or not), they are limited to 10% capacity, drinking fountains are closed and the area where the gorilla exhibit is is closed. Certain areas are one way only. All employees were wearing masks and I wore mine; however, I would say only around 20% of other visitors wore one. I stayed out of any indoor enclosures and there was only one spot (across a bridge) where it was difficult to keep 6 ft apart. I only stayed an hour and did not linger anywhere. I am sending them my suggestion for the bridge crossing which would be similar to one way road closures. It would require workers on each side of the bridge to allow the groups to go and stop those on the other side. I think it went well and they are able to contact trace based on the reservations as you had to give your phone number and email.
 

Louis

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14,189
I'm in PA and I have no idea what you are talking about, can you please post links? There were 2 counties that planned to defy Wolf and move themselves to yellow phase ahead of schedule but they backed off. My county (Allegheny) moved to yellow phase on May 15 consistent with the plan that was announced 2 weeks previously. 12 additional counties moving to yellow phase were announced on May 15. I am really curious what you referencing here.
Southeastern PA will reopen on June 5, way ahead of his original schedule:

Very randomly, I went to high school with one of the people interviewed. And I'm wondering if the reporter is a relative (though I think he's more of an in-law than a blood relative).

He has also had to cave on a number of issues, from the real estate shutdown to opening pools to the size of gatherings allowed. Happy to see democracy and common sense prevailing at last.
 

Zemgirl

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12,817
there are a lot of things I would like to do as well but especially with places of worship I really don't understand why people would go there instead of using other options via the internet. Of course it sucks if this is something that means a lot to you but it has been proven over and over again how dangerous the church setting is and no livelihood depends on it.

and as far as restaurants and fitness centers go - in my opinion the cost to support these businesse from the government would be far less than the cost if a cluster of infections incurs there (as just happened in my county in a restaurant) which needs to be tracked and analyzed with lots of lots in people now in quarantine.

I'd rather we open the essential places and let people live a semi-normal life again than having to shut down everyting quickly again :-(
At this point, we don't know how long it will take to get an effective treatment or a vaccine; even if there is a vaccine, nobody knows how much protection it will afford. On the one hand, that means we have to be cautious, open things up gradually and take reasonable precautions. On the other hand, it means that we have to figure out a way to live with this, and that means going beyond only opening up essential places. That's an appropriate step when things are only getting back to normal, but it leaves too many people without sources of income, social and spiritual support.

I'm not remotely religious, so I don't understand the need to pray at a synagogue, a church of a mosque. But clearly there are people for whom their religious traditions are very much important, and faith communities are also a source of social and emotional support (which many people desperately need these days). If it's done carefully, with a limited number of people present at any one time and best public health practices, opening religious institutions can probably be a net positive.

As I wrote, not every country can keep businesses and people financially afloat over an extended period of time. So you weigh the risk of allowing businesses to open, and in some places it is low enough that you can go ahead.

There isn't going to be a one-size fits all approach to dealing with CV at the country/regional level. If you look at the NYT link I posted about New Zealand, you can see that Jacinda Ardern isn't wearing a mask. Does anyone doubt that she's responsible and attentive to the public health concerns? What's right in New Zealand is different from what will work best for Israel, or Senegal, or Germany, or of course the US. And I think it's worth remembering that as we discuss things - yes, it's a global pandemlc affecting us all, but it's hitting different places in different ways, and that affects our perspectives.
 

Ania

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495
Southeastern PA will reopen on June 5, way ahead of his original schedule:

Very randomly, I went to high school with one of the people interviewed. And I'm wondering if the reporter is a relative (though I think he's more of an in-law than a blood relative).

He has also had to cave on a number of issues, from the real estate shutdown to opening pools to the size of gatherings allowed. Happy to see democracy and common sense prevailing at last.
Thank you. So what you were referencing is that 8 counties are moving to phase yellow one week earlier (originally announced they'll move to yellow "by June 5" and now opening on May 29). In the meantime, 49 counties already moved to phase yellow in a planned manner and 17 counties are now moving to green phase. You posting earlier that "The lockdown house of cards is crumbling ... [Wolf] had to move all of PA to yellow ahead of schedule" was overly dramatic and inaccurate (ETA: the underlined part is inaccurate).
 

Louis

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14,189
[Wolf] had to move all of PA to yellow ahead of schedule" was overly dramatic and inaccurate (ETA: the underlined part is inaccurate).
What's inaccurate about it? All (the entirety) of Pennsylvania was not due to be in yellow (or better) status by June 5, and southeastern Pennsylvania was likely going to need another month or possibly several in order to meet his strict criteria -- e.g., no deaths for 14 consecutive days. Now all (the entirety) of Pennsylvania is moving to yellow, ahead of schedule, and these previously inflexible rules no longer apply.
 

Ania

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495
What's inaccurate about it? All (the entirety) of Pennsylvania was not due to be in yellow (or better) status by June 5, and southeastern Pennsylvania was likely going to need another month or possibly several in order to meet his strict criteria -- e.g., no deaths for 14 consecutive days. Now all (the entirety) of Pennsylvania is moving to yellow, ahead of schedule, and these previously inflexible rules no longer apply.
At the very least your post was ambiguous. By May 29, one week ahead of previously announced plan, ALL of PA will be moved to phase yellow or green; but not ALL of PA was moved to next phase ahead of schedule - in fact, the vast majority of counties opened up in accordance to previously announced dates. And "house of cards is crumbling" based on a handful of counties moving ahead one week earlier than planned - overly dramatic.
 

Ania

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Messages
495
If some can do the tinyurl thing for me.
A hair stylist with C-19 saw 84 clients while sick.
Here you go: It's up to 91 people exposed.

And this is what reopening looks like when you re-open too soon. Montgomery, Alabama has 1 ICU bed left.
Montgomery Mayor Steven Reed said that "he was certain the shortage of ICU beds was directly related to the state loosening restrictions. "That's definitely a part of opening up too soon and not adhering to CDC guidelines," Reed said."
 
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sk8pics

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6,825
Also, don't people of faith tell you that you can pray anywhere and don't need a church to do so?
Yes, but to gather in a community in person is different. My particular parish is very much “the people are the church” rather than the building, but that doesn’t mean we don’t want to gather together. We’re not, yet, because of the SIP rules. When we open up, it will be very cautiously with recommendations that people over 65 should not come and a variety of other typical rules about distancing and occupancy.
Sitting apart can mitigate the risk but people are still indoors and with a large group of people they don't live with. Also, masks should be worn the entire time and there should not be communion at all IMO. (Yes, I know that won't go down well with Catholics.) And no singing! (sad)
We will be required to wear masks and some singing is to be allowed but no choirs.
But you are still in a room with a lot of other people for about an hour. The third dimension risk is time exposure, which is why a short grocery visit may be safer than worship. Plus taking masks off for communion is adding to risk. No common cup I hope.
We won’t have the cup and only the priest and other specially trained people will give communion. It bothers me, too, that we have to take the masks off to consume the bread, and I hope no one will get sick as a result. The space and furniture will all be sanitized, people will use hand sanitizer when they come in and leave, no hymnals will be used. So maybe it’s not too risky. Oh, and if the priest touches a person’s hand while giving communion, he is required to sanitize his hands before giving it to the next person. I expect that our priests will follow those guidelines.
I thought the Catholic Church had stopped doing confessions where people sat in little boxes and talked to priests through screens a long time--or rather, that that is still available in some churches but is not the way it's usually done.

It's usually something relatively open, like this.
Our church building has been closed since about March 16, so no one is going to confession and my community is not that big on it anyway. I have heard of some people doing it over the phone, LOL. Anyway, we don’t even have a little box but we do have a small room, so people can either sit behind a screen or sit facing the priest. I can’t imagine that will be done for quite some time. I can imagine where our one priest might take a socially distanced walk with someone on the grounds surrounding our building.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
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At the very least your post was ambiguous. By May 29, one week ahead of previously announced plan, ALL of PA will be moved to phase yellow or green; but not ALL of PA was moved to next phase ahead of schedule - in fact, the vast majority of counties opened up in accordance to previously announced dates. And "house of cards is crumbling" based on a handful of counties moving ahead one week earlier than planned - overly dramatic.
In case you'd like the facts instead of the dramatic version provided: https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroo...reen-on-may-29-remainder-to-yellow-on-june-5/
 

Louis

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14,189
If you believe "facts" come from a press release from the politician who's trying to make himself look good, sure.... I wouldn't trust a press release from Tom Wolf any more than I would a press release from Donald Trump.

The facts remain:
  • Wolf had to backtrack on his announced plan to veto the bill allowing real estate to reopen
  • He had to move up SE Pennsylvania reopening, going back on his earlier guidance and criteria (the counties have not met the criteria he laid out to move to yellow)
  • He opened up pools after saying he would not

The facts also remain:
  • Donald Trump and his supporters rallied in Pennsylvania against the arbitrary and severe lockdown
  • Several counties, including purple counties that lean Democrat were in open defiance

Whether that's correlation or causation, who's to say. I think the (peaceful) protests have made a positive impact on the reopening of Pennsylvania ahead of schedule. It's making a big difference for several of my business owner friends, and for that I'm :cheer: :cheer2:.
 

MLIS

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My parents’ church has been through a terrible couple of years with a toxic minister and small group of members who drove off a lot of members and did a lot of damage. The minister finally resigned (taking his supporters with him) and the church was left with a small core of members who have poured everything they have into keeping the congregation going. They currently have no minister (they were launching the hiring process just before the C19 struck) and have done amazing work in putting together services online and using phone and email trees to check in on people and keep things going. But a huge part of what was keeping them together was the weekly coffee session before the service, where everyone was able to socialize and check in. Everyone hugged everyone, there were no handshakes. They are still having bible study and things online with Zoom, but the demographic of that congregation skews towards the more elderly, and there are a lot of people who are not comfortable enough with (or who don’t even have access to) the technology to click a link to the service on YouTube, let alone join a virtual bible study. While it’s true that you don’t have to be in a church in order to pray, that sense of community, of having weathered a storm and still be standing, together, on the other side of it ... well, this is a huge blow at a very vulnerable time in their church’s history. I can understand why people want to go back to the building and worship together.
 

canbelto

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3,391
Going to sound un-pc here but the drive to reopen churches is more white entitlement. The pastors I see most eager to open churches are white evangelicals. Meanwhile Muslims around the world just celebrated Ramadan with closed mosques. African-American churches have also been slow to reopen because C19 has devastated African-American communities across the country.
 

mag

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12,198
The facts remain:
  • Wolf had to backtrack on his announced plan to veto the bill allowing real estate to reopen
  • He had to move up SE Pennsylvania reopening, going back on his earlier guidance and criteria (the counties have not met the criteria he laid out to move to yellow)
  • He opened up pools after saying he would not
This is, in nut shell, what is wrong with so much in politics. Could it be that the governor listened to views, contrary to his initial view, considered the facts presented (perhaps some he did not have when he made his original decision) and decided to change his decision? Why is changing one’s mind when presented with new information a bad thing? Why is that “caving” or “crumbling?” Perhaps it is just good leadership.

When leaders won’t look at new information and change their views when appropriate that is when we end up at war. That is why the US is where it is because Trump holds the view that changing his mind, when presented with conflicting facts, is a sign of weakness.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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I have lived in Pennsylvania for the six decades plus that I have walked this earth. I know a fair amount of people here. ;)So just jumping in to keep it real with a report from "the trenches".

Donald Trump and the Koch-funded protests from outsiders had Jackson B. Squat to do with "re-opening" Pennsylvania. The people who loved Donnie still love him. Others, not so much. :shuffle:

Several local Democratic legislators promoted re-opening. Gov. Wolf adopted the Democrat's proposal for re-opening certain businesses, such as real estate. He listened to their proposals, and adapted, as any good leader should.

I hope that Republicans continue to think that dissatisfaction with Gov. Wolf is leading some great "but muh freedoms" exodus to Donnie. Keep thinking that. 👍 (Not to say that Tea Party types aren't alive and well, after all we gave you Rick Santorum (sorry).) Most folks here are smart enough to separate Gov. Wolf from our favorite son, Uncle Joe. And they do :D
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
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18,282
My parents’ church has been through a terrible couple of years with a toxic minister and small group of members who drove off a lot of members and did a lot of damage. The minister finally resigned (taking his supporters with him) and the church was left with a small core of members who have poured everything they have into keeping the congregation going. They currently have no minister (they were launching the hiring process just before the C19 struck) and have done amazing work in putting together services online and using phone and email trees to check in on people and keep things going. But a huge part of what was keeping them together was the weekly coffee session before the service, where everyone was able to socialize and check in. Everyone hugged everyone, there were no handshakes. They are still having bible study and things online with Zoom, but the demographic of that congregation skews towards the more elderly, and there are a lot of people who are not comfortable enough with (or who don’t even have access to) the technology to click a link to the service on YouTube, let alone join a virtual bible study. While it’s true that you don’t have to be in a church in order to pray, that sense of community, of having weathered a storm and still be standing, together, on the other side of it ... well, this is a huge blow at a very vulnerable time in their church’s history. I can understand why people want to go back to the building and worship together.
I can understand that and while not religious myself I would venture that the social part is more important for most people than the worship itself (I may be wrong here of course).
But wouldn't the social part still be possible albeit in smaller groups and outside? Make a walk together with 4-5 members in addition to the online praying and such - maybe make a small group OUTSIDE with distance.
But why the whole inside in closed doors meeting that is so dangerous :wuzrobbed
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
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442
I went to the local nursery yesterday to pick up a pond plant. The nurseries here were always considered essential businesses so they weren't affected by the now reopening of our county (this is a rural area and lots of people grow their own fruits and vegetables), but this was my first visit in a year. The place was packed and finding a parking place was difficult, as always. The checkers inside the building weren't wearing masks. The employees who worked outside watering the plants and helping customers select their plants were wearing masks. I wondered why they would have the people working outside in the sunshine and fresh air with the masks and not the ones inside the building taking payments. Both would have interactions with customers being closer than six feet. Seemed strange to me.
 

Dobre

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7,054
I consider church to be an extremely high risk situation.
Do we have somewhere some solid research data for people to see how social distancing does or does not work inside a building over the course of an hour?

And with someone talking?

What makes me very nervous about church--in addition to the older demographic--is the article earlier that was shown of how many people in a single restaurant and/or workplace could be infected at the same time. This along with the story about the church in Calgary where so many people were infected while holding a birthday celebration despite being careful about hand washing, clean utensils, and following the best health advice they could find at the time.


This link (blog?) was posted in my facebook feed today. It is about the emotional challenges pastors are facing at this time.

The Coming Pastoral Crash
https://johndobbs.com/the-coming-pa...mgEkQ2DLHjp--NSs-HnL_SVJeYdy4C6dFHbx9eryiNbkw

Also this article came up when I searched Washington State news today:
Washington State Bishops Respond to Trump's Push to Reopen Churches: 'We Will Wait'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-respond-to-trumps-push-to-reopen-churches-we
"We want to let you know the public celebration of Mass was suspended, not out of fear, but out of our deepest respect for human life and health," reads a Friday statement signed by several bishops in a "unified response."


The only thing higher would be workplaces and places with hundreds of people like a fair or concert.
And schools, where you have hundreds of people inside for 7-8 hours a day. Not to mention that in schools & daycares, a certain percentage of participants do not yet know how to blow their nose.

I think it's so cute that sportscasters think college football will return like :normal". They weren't even able to do spring training. They should be deep into practice now.
I dont think it will happen. No football this fall.
I think that will probably come down to the ***** first--whether it surges in the fall and/or spreads through teams--and :bribe: next. I think people will strive to put on a football season--that it is probably the big goal as far as having time to adapt and a potential payoff worth the effort & planning. There would likely be a lot of lost revenue in ticket sales, but networks need new content to show. (And alumni who reach deep into their pocket books often do it for sports, sports, sports). Football can be done at the national level, which is to the sport's benefit.

But it isn't as well designed as baseball, horse racing, or golf to avoid the spread of the disease. And if players are getting sick, either from training, competing, or the hazards of travel, then it won't work. Not everyone has to be on board. It doesn't have to be a "normal" season for there to be a season. But the athletes have to stay healthy.
 
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Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
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5,263
This is, in nut shell, what is wrong with so much in politics. Could it be that the governor listened to views, contrary to his initial view, considered the facts presented (perhaps some he did not have when he made his original decision) and decided to change his decision? Why is changing one’s mind when presented with new information a bad thing? Why is that “caving” or “crumbling?” Perhaps it is just good leadership.

When leaders won’t look at new information and change their views when appropriate that is when we end up at war. That is why the US is where it is because Trump holds the view that changing his mind, when presented with conflicting facts, is a sign of weakness.
Wolf and the Sec of Health went beyond the original metric (the state's specific target for new infections), looking at the actual dropping numbers of new ***** infections and hospitalizations and increased testing capacity.

From 6abc in Philly: "There has been a single-minded focus on keeping people safe. That was true when we started this whole process, it's true today. That has not changed and it won't change," Wolf said in a video news conference. "We've never used that metric exclusively. We never did. As we have more ability to test, know more about the disease, we have broadened the number of things that we look at. That data is still two weeks out and we feel comfortable and confident that by that date, June 5, Philadelphia will be in a position that its citizens can safely move into the yellow phase." https://6abc.com/reopening-pennsylvania-pa-philadelphia-green-phase/6202189/

That all said, you must understand it's much more fun to gloat and shout about "caving" and "crumbling" rather than looking into what is actually going on. Especially when you don't live here anymore and that fits your personal agenda.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,683
Going to sound un-pc here but the drive to reopen churches is more white entitlement. The pastors I see most eager to open churches are white evangelicals. Meanwhile Muslims around the world just celebrated Ramadan with closed mosques. African-American churches have also been slow to reopen because C19 has devastated African-American communities across the country.
It varies a lot. In the US, three African American pastors have already died who opened their churches.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,113
Do we have somewhere some solid research data for people to see how social distancing does or does not work inside a building over the course of an hour?

What makes me very nervous about church--in addition to the older demographic--is the article earlier that was shown of how many people in a single restaurant and/or workplace could be infected at the same time. This along with the story about the church in Calgary where so many people were infected while holding a birthday celebration despite being careful about hand washing, clean utensils, and following the best health advice they could find at the time.


This link (blog?) was posted in my facebook feed today. It is about the emotional challenges pastors are facing at this time.

The Coming Pastoral Crash
https://johndobbs.com/the-coming-pa...mgEkQ2DLHjp--NSs-HnL_SVJeYdy4C6dFHbx9eryiNbkw

Also this article came up when I searched Washington State news today:
Washington State Bishops Respond to Trump's Push to Reopen Churches: 'We Will Wait'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-respond-to-trumps-push-to-reopen-churches-we
"We want to let you know the public celebration of Mass was suspended, not out of fear, but out of our deepest respect for human life and health," reads a Friday statement signed by several bishops in a "unified response."




And schools, where you have hundreds of people inside for 7-8 hours a day. Not to mention that in schools & daycares, a certain percentage of participants do not yet know how to blow their nose.



I think that will probably come down to the ***** first--whether it surges in the fall and/or spreads through teams--and :bribe: next. I think people will strive to put on a football season--that it is probably the big goal as far as having time to adapt and a potential payoff worth the effort & planning. There would likely be a lot of lost revenue in ticket sales, but networks need new content to show. (And alumni who reach deep into their pocket books often do it for sports, sports, sports). Football can be done at the national level, which is to the sport's benefit.

But it isn't as well designed as baseball, horse racing, or golf to avoid the spread of the disease. And if players are getting sick, either from training, competing, or the hazards of travel, then it won't work. Not everyone has to be on board. It doesn't have to be a "normal" season for there to be a season. But the athletes have to stay healthy.
I was thinking about college football this morning and it occurred to me that if colleges start having football games, they're going to be in for some nasty lawsuits if they don't also have (take your pick) gymnastics, lacrosse, track and field, swimming, field hockey or whatever other sports the university has to try to get roughly equal numbers of women athletes.

Then you'd have the issue of if sports is available schoolwide, why can't drama/filmmaking be? How is putting on a play more risky than football for CV19? Or debating? Or chess? Or any other university sanctioned activity?

I really don't envy colleges and universities trying to decide how to open, and how to stay open if a single dorm becomes a hot spot.
 

Zemgirl

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12,817
I think it's so cute that sportscasters think college football will return like :normal". They weren't even able to do spring training. They should be deep into practice now.
I dont think it will happen. No football this fall.
I don't understand this approach at all. What benefit is there in telling people that their lives are going to suck for an extended period of time? I don't see how it'll make anyone happier or more compliant with health and safety measures. Why not let people look forward to have something that they can enjoy, even if it's in a different/more limited way? Being hopeful isn't "cute", it's human.

The Bundesliga is already back. Every major US sport is trying to figure out how to finish or start their season safely. There are clearly a lot of people who are motivated to have sports come back in the safest way possible. I for one hope they'll find a way to do it.
 

Dobre

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7,054
Then you'd have the issue of if sports is available schoolwide, why can't drama/filmmaking be? How is putting on a play more risky than football for CV19? Or debating? Or chess? Or any other university sanctioned activity?
I think you make some very good points. Football is held outside, while gymnastics and traditional large-team volleyball are not. So that would be an argument for being able to start football training based on health reasons while some of the traditional sports used to balance Title IX numbers would be more hazardous for training purposes. However, at some point you'd have to put all those guys on a bus or a plane. And that is not done outdoors. Also, while football is done outside, it is a contact sport that can't be played or practiced at a distance. (And ugh, the thought of those mouthguards does not scream sanitary).
 

Ania

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Messages
495
In case you'd like the facts instead of the dramatic version provided: https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroo...reen-on-may-29-remainder-to-yellow-on-june-5/
Thank you, @Yazmeen. "Counties that remain in red on May 29 and are expected to move to yellow by June 5 include Berks, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Lackawanna, Lancaster, Lehigh, Northampton, Montgomery, and Philadelphia."
So, the information @Louis posted was inaccurate, not all of PA will be in yellow phase on May 29. Ten counties will remain in the red phase until June 5.

If you believe "facts" come from a press release from the politician who's trying to make himself look good, sure.... I wouldn't trust a press release from Tom Wolf any more than I would a press release from Donald Trump.
Ok, let me get this straight: you do not trust the press release that listed which counties will be remaining in red phase vs. moving to yellow phase? You think that the press release is wrong about which counties will be opening on May 29 and June 5? Can you point to any alternative sources that would show that the press release is wrong and Berks, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Lackawanna, Lancaster, Lehigh, Northampton, Montgomery, and Philadelphia counties will be moving into yellow phase before June 5?

The link you posted, about some counties moving to the yellow phase one week early, was about Dauphin, Franklin, Huntingdon, Lebanon, Luzerne, Monroe, Pike and Schuylkill counties. And no, not ALL of PA will be moving to yellow phase by May 29 - I did not double check you on your second inaccurate statement you made in post #398. My bad, I'll know better next time. Good thing that @Yazmeen double checked both of us and provided a link to correct information.
 
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MacMadame

Staying at home
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I did not double check you on your second inaccurate statement you made in post #398. My bad, I'll know better next time. Good thing that @Yazmeen double checked both of us and provided a link to correct information.
As a general rule of thumb, whenever we are having a contentious discussion, it helps to check everything posted. I don't know how many times someone has said something, a bunch of people accepted it as true and then argue against certain points when it turns out the original declaration was inaccurate. The worst offender is people posting links to articles whose headlines seemed to support their point but if you actually read the whole article, it doesn't say what the OP said it said. :D

Also, while football is done outside, it is a contact sport that can't be played or practiced at a distance.
It is but there are a lot of drills that can be practiced that don't involve contact. I guess they'll have to start with those and see how it goes.
 

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