What about those Senate and House races

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,164
Debbie Mucarsel-Powell on her performance, why she thinks she lost and what Democrats can do to better appeal to Latino voters (and yes, she uses "Latinos" and not "Latinx":


Two more things:

1) Stop use of Latinx. This is a made-up, ridiculous woke white person term to make them feel better about themselves. The Latin(o) community does not like or embrace this term. Only 3% of Latin adults have ever heard of the term, and 66% say the term Latinx should not be used. Respect the population's wishes of how it wants to be identified, and talked to. https://www.pewresearch.org/hispani...anics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/

2) Commit to ending Affirmative Action and replacing it with more inclusive, need-based programs, particularly at the K-12 level. Proposition 16 failed in California in large part due to Latinos opposing it.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,355
You're right, but I also think Mucarsel-Powell does a good job avoiding most pratfalls there. She doesn't really say she has a overarching answer to reach "Latinos" as a whole group, but just that in her case, the ground game was way more important. I think with the ground game, you get to talk to people as individuals and not just see them as faceless monolith groups. You get the nuances that way. She always goes against the idea that fear from "socialism" was a main catalyst which is now being used to broadly as if to appeal to everyone, but especially all Latino groups when that's not the case.

She does and the "ground game" that is reaching people as individuals is what will make a difference.

I just saw a reference elsewhere to Democrat's national messaging being responsible for the losses in state legislatures. I think this is chasing a chimera. Each state needs to be looked at for its actual characteristics in these battles. The Democrats definitely need a robust national infrastructure to support state and local efforts but the messaging needs to be driven locally.

I think that messaging on a state and local level can give the Democrats the opportunity to counter the anti-government feelings that have become so ingrained by pointing to actual results that people can see in their own communities, or in ones where Republicans have long held office, ways that they could achieve meaningful results in people's lives.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,856
Two more things:

1) Stop use of Latinx. This is a made-up, ridiculous woke white person term to make them feel better about themselves. The Latin(o) community does not like or embrace this term.

2) Commit to ending Affirmative Action and replacing it with more inclusive, need-based programs, particularly at the K-12 level. Proposition 16 failed in California in large part due to Latinos opposing it.
Latino is male. Latina is female. Latinx is gender neutral.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,246
I think Latinx is something that isn't my fight. It should be within the Latino community and between those who are gender neutral or non-conforming and the cisgender majority population. I did see an interesting convo that Latinx is not a natural word for native Spanish-speakers, but as I am NOT a native-Spanish speaker who can't even roll her Rs, I don't feel like I have a stake in that conversation. Anyway, I don't get why "Latin" doesn't just work if we want a gender-neutral term, but then I'm not a Latin gender non-conforming person.

Regarding affirmative-action, I'm telling you guys, looking deeply into this case and seeing all the different self-interests growing, we're going to see a growing chasm between African-Americans (descendants of slaves) and other racial minorities (including non-American Africans). Although there are many POC who support Affirmative Action, including a legal org that I'm a member of, AALDEF, I'm noticing diverting interests in this beginning to form...among other policies in that there are even different definitions forming regarding AA and how it should be implemented. Louis's version is becoming more popular with the majority though I think it's due to people who like the idea that race doesn't matter. I think race matters so much in this country, even outside of ethnic background and national origin though having that on top of things also matters...whether it be negatively or positively differs as universities keep seeking rich students abroad.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,355
Regarding affirmative-action, I'm telling you guys, looking deeply into this case and seeing all the different self-interests growing, we're going to see a growing chasm between African-Americans (descendants of slaves) and other racial minorities (including non-American Africans). Although there are many POC who support Affirmative Action, including a legal org that I'm a member of, AALDEF, I'm noticing diverting interests in this beginning to form...among other policies in that there are even different definitions forming regarding AA and how it should be implemented. Louis's version is becoming more popular with the majority though I think it's due to people who like the idea that race doesn't matter. I think race matters so much in this country, even outside of ethnic background and national origin though having that on top of things also matters...whether it be negatively or positively differs as universities keep seeking rich students abroad.

I mostly :scream: from discussions of affirmative action because they are so complicated and I don't follow the legal cases at all, but I do see one thing that I think would be good to change on the liberal side and that is a lot of white liberals seem to have memorized arguments from decades ago and then to repeat those inflexibly. The struggle over affirmative action has been going on a long time and a lot has changed since then so being flexible and considering new information is important.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,856
I think Latinx is something that isn't my fight. It should be within the Latino community and between those who are gender neutral or non-conforming and the cisgender majority population. I did see an interesting convo that Latinx is not a natural word for native Spanish-speakers, but as I am NOT a native-Spanish speaker who can't even roll her Rs, I don't feel like I have a stake in that conversation. Anyway, I don't get why "Latin" doesn't just work if we want a gender-neutral term, but then I'm not a Latin gender non-conforming person.
I'm not in the fight either. But just "Latin" reminds me of what we used to read at Catholic Mass, which was not Spanish. How about LatinAm (for Latin America)? Not my business, just thinking.

BTW (and this should probably go somewhere else), I think somebody heard me complaining about "woman" vice president, because I have heard and seen female used way more. I don't even yell "female" at the t.v. anymore.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,356
Latino is male. Latina is female. Latinx is gender neutral.
Latino is both male and gender neutral. Latina is female.

Latinos is both a group of men and women or a group of men. Latinas is a group of only women.

"Latino" and "latina" are also adjectives that correspond with the "gender" of a given noun. So if one were to say, "Latin culture" it would be "la cultura latina" because "culture" is a feminine noun. If one were to say the "Latin country," then one would say "el pais latino" because "country" is a masculine noun.
 
Last edited:

Aerobicidal

Thrust it!
Messages
10,920
I think this is an informative article about the term "Latinx." The author embraces the term, but I think also accurately presents a number of persuasive arguments against it.

It's a complicated issue and is very much about gender and sexuality in addition to racial/ethnic issues.

I realize that there are a lot of controversies surrounding changes in language about personal identity--whether it's terms like queer or nonbinary or [email protected] or Latinx, or using different pronouns and honorifics, or whatever else. I'm in no position to say people have to accept or use whatever is the most "politically correct" terminology out there, but there is a baseline of respecting people's own experiences and self-conceptions that I think is just common decency. However, I obviously realize what I think is common decency is both arguable and unrealistic.

Back on topic, I am very interested (but not optimistic) about the GA Senate races and will stay informed and, if I have the opportunity, get involved.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,217
Back on topic, I am very interested (but not optimistic) about the GA Senate races and will stay informed and, if I have the opportunity, get involved.
Here's a poll. I read somewhere that this is a pollster that had Trump ahead in GA before the election, so make of that what you will:

This is a very fun fundraiser for the runoffs (remember that Stacey Abrams is a romance novelist!).
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,848
Two more things:

1) Stop use of Latinx. This is a made-up, ridiculous woke white person term to make them feel better about themselves.
Then why do all my Hispanic friends say Latinx to describe themselves? Because you are wrong.

2) Commit to ending Affirmative Action and replacing it with more inclusive, need-based programs, particularly at the K-12 level. Proposition 16 failed in California in large part due to Latinos opposing it.
No, it was Asians. Conservative recently immigrated Asians in particular. A lot of them have become convinced that Affirmative Action is all that is keeping their children from getting into the Ivies.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,246
And with that said, even Asians aren’t a monolith about that (as you said about overseas Asians). A great proportion of us see the value in affirmative action and many Asian-Am groups and legal organizations filed amicus briefs to support affirmative action and argue that Asians shouldn’t be seen as a monolith either. Even in the Harvard cases, many Asians, including visible ones like Andrew Yang said we need to stop being used as a weapon against other POC AND look closely as to who filed those anti-AA suits....it wasn’t actual Asian-Ams but noted white anti-affirmative action groups who failed in cases before and then thought to use Asians to give their claims more “color”.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,848
And with that said, even Asians aren’t a monolith about that (as you said about overseas Asians). A great proportion of us see the value in affirmative action and many Asian-Am groups and legal organizations filed amicus briefs to support affirmative action and argue that Asians shouldn’t be seen as a monolith either. Even in the Harvard cases, many Asians, including visible ones like Andrew Yang said we need to stop being used as a weapon against other POC AND look closely as to who filed those anti-AA suits....it wasn’t actual Asian-Ams but noted white anti-affirmative action groups who failed in cases before and then thought to use Asians to give their claims more “color”.
Agreed. I'm just saying that it was Asians in the same way that it was white people who elected Trump. Even though I didn't vote for Trump myself.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,246
Agreed. I'm just saying that it was Asians in the same way that it was white people who elected Trump. Even though I didn't vote for Trump myself.
I really would love to see the stats and breakdown by ethnicity, immigrant status, (generations off of immigrant status), education level, etc. of Asians who support AA and those who don't.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
826
I'm not trusting any more polls. It's clear to me that pollsters are missing a vital segment of the population. They claimed they fixed the issue after 2016, but that didn't happen. :p
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,856
I did this earlier and didn't send it? It's still sitting here -
Interesting footnote in Wikipedia - Suarez-Orozco, Marcelo; Páez, Mariela, eds. (2008). Latinos: Remaking America. University of California Press. p. 4. ISBN 978-0-520-25827-3. The very term Latino has meaning only in reference to the U.S. experience. Outside the United States, we don't speak of Latinos; we speak of Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and so forth. Latinos are made in the USA.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,246
I'm not trusting any more polls. It's clear to me that pollsters are missing a vital segment of the population. They claimed they fixed the issue after 2016, but that didn't happen. :p
I think it's still better than guessing though. Polls have a place and can always be conducted better.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,848
I think it's still better than guessing though. Polls have a place and can always be conducted better.
Polls are fun and can be helpful. You need to know how to read them though.

I read an analysis of the 2020 Election polls and there were two State polls that were way off. But since they called the right result, no one talks about it.

This particular pundit says that you can't look at one poll but have to look at the averages. And then you see if they predicted the spread appropriately. A lot of them did this year but because the overall impact is to under-predict Trump's performance, people will scream about how "the polls" are wrong.

They also went through different races and how the undecided voted and said that it's getting the undecideds right that is important. And lately, they don't behave the same from race to race so it's really hard to do that. For example, there was a time that they favored the incumbent. But then they started split the same way as the Decided. But now they seem to favor the underdog. But next Presidential race, they could vote with a different pattern that we can't predict yet.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,356
And another article . . .

Ethics experts and Trump critics call for Senate investigation into Graham's probe into presidential election​


"In a letter, Walter Shaub, a former top ethics watchdog for the federal government, Richard Painter, the chief ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush's administration, and Claire Finkelstein, the director of the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Ethics and the Rule of Law, asked the panel to look into Graham's call last week with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, and whether Graham 'suggested' that Raffensperger 'disenfranchise Georgia voters by not counting votes lawfully cast for the office of president.'

They also asked the panel to investigate whether Graham 'threatened anyone with a Senate investigation of the Georgia vote tally.'"
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,355
And another article . . .

Ethics experts and Trump critics call for Senate investigation into Graham's probe into presidential election​


"In a letter, Walter Shaub, a former top ethics watchdog for the federal government, Richard Painter, the chief ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush's administration, and Claire Finkelstein, the director of the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Ethics and the Rule of Law, asked the panel to look into Graham's call last week with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, and whether Graham 'suggested' that Raffensperger 'disenfranchise Georgia voters by not counting votes lawfully cast for the office of president.'

They also asked the panel to investigate whether Graham 'threatened anyone with a Senate investigation of the Georgia vote tally.'"

I'm glad these folks are speaking up. We cannot just let stuff like this slide.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
23,985
Marjorie Taylor Greene is doing a great job of winning friends and influencing people in her new job.



Sounds like she is going to be like Australia's own Pauline Hanson.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
12,016
Why aren't all of the Dem senators and reps who lost to republicans demanding a recount.
Recently reelected Senator Joni Ernst has grasped that Trump is challenging her election too, and he is hinting that Republicans were part of the conspiracy.


It may be that soon, that also recently reelected Senator Susan Collins will also be troubled, shocked, and deeply saddened. ;)
 

Fiero425

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,090
Recently reelected Senator Joni Ernst has grasped that Trump is challenging her election too, and he is hinting that Republicans were part of the conspiracy.


It may be that soon, that also recently reelected Senator Susan Collins will also be troubled, shocked, and deeply saddened. ;)

I have nothing for the old bag! She lowered herself and won't ever be able to get up! She's barely treading water as far as I'm concerned! She sold her soul and I can't even be bothered with people like her; FOS! :confused:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information