USFS' Champs Camp 2021

sap5

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I do wish the test skate portion of Champs Camp was televised. I think guarding programs from public view is coddling skaters when it comes right down to it. Plus, USFSA could make some much needed $$ from it.

But honestly, if you are getting all your top skaters together, it seems wasteful to NOT have additional meetings, trainings and evaluations, etc. So on the whole, that aspect of the US does it is better, imo.
Coddling skaters from what? The personal opinions of viewers?

The point of Champs Camp is to have programs reviewed by experts so that skaters can make improvements before competition begins (along with team building, giving advice for the season, etc). How would televising the camp help skaters for the season?
 

VGThuy

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I see Champs Camp as the final workshop/rehearsal in theater. For many shows with so much invested, the last they want is to have a huge mess debuting in front of an audience. So it’s in the final workshop/rehearsal in front of investors, other creatives (respected friends whose craft they respect and will give feedback or show doctors), and select members audiences (not open to the public) who want the show to work. It gives the skaters/creators of the show one last chance to fine-tune or edit their programs (cut scenes/songs…rewrite songs…take out a character, replace actors, cut dances, etc.) before their first out-of-town try-outs.

I consider the Autumn/Fall Challenger and GP series the out-of-town tryouts period where people see how their shows work in front of an actual audience and then do much fixing and editing there too.

The second half of the season where Euros/4CC (Nationals for those who don’t go to 4CC) is what I consider opening night and Worlds/Olympics is what I consider the time period where Tony Award voters are watching and the show starts to gel and performers hit their prime since they’ve had enough live performances under their belt to know when to hit their marks, make their lines land well, etc. and yet it’s still fresh and exciting.
 

Sylvia

U.S. Qualifying season is underway!
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News post-Champs Camp:
U.S. Figure Skating announced today the final athlete selections for the United States at 2021 Guaranteed Rate Skate America, set for Oct. 22–24 at The Orleans Arena in Las Vegas. Audrey Shin (women), Yaroslav Paniot (men), Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson (pairs), and Molly Cesanek and Yehor Yehorov (ice dance) have been selected by U.S. Figure Skating to compete in Las Vegas.
 

Frau Muller

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Today’s edition of TSL’s This & That has some interesting things to say about specific skaters’ performances at Champs Camp...apparently a rink camera was inadvertently left on & recorded the skates! Yikes! Conversation on what Dave & Jenny saw in the film from the Camp starts just after the 46-minute mark:

 
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misskarne

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By the way, for anyone who watches that garbage, we have video of Jason at Sun Valley, 5 days after Champs Camp, with a lovely 3Lz, textbook perfect stunning 3F, nice airy 3T, and a gorgeous 3A. He skated with all of his usual trademark beauty and in no way, shape or form looked like a skater with a recently-broken ankle who supposedly turned up to Champs Camp "not in shape", "barely doing triples", or "should pull out of his GPs for his sake" or whatever other bullshit they're peddling.
 

Frau Muller

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By the way, for anyone who watches that garbage, we have video of Jason at Sun Valley, 5 days after Champs Camp, with a lovely 3Lz, textbook perfect stunning 3F, nice airy 3T, and a gorgeous 3A. He skated with all of his usual trademark beauty and in no way, shape or form looked like a skater with a recently-broken ankle who supposedly turned up to Champs Camp "not in shape", "barely doing triples", or "should pull out of his GPs for his sake" or whatever other bullshit they're peddling.
It’s not “peddling” but a film that all can see with their own eyes. (Yes, it’s available to see for TSL’s CY Live donors, as Dave mentions.) Some of our favorite Sr skaters simply didn’t perform well at the Camp...not just Jason but Bradie...yet Alysa & Karen did great among women & Vincent delivered for Men (and Nathan was getting there but minus full arsenal of quads at this stage). Not all bad news, in other words. Rah Team 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸!!!
 
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Tavi

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It’s not “peddling” but the film that all can see with their own eyes. (Yes, it’s available to see for TSL’s CY Live donors, as Dave mentions.) Some of our favorite Sr skaters simply didn’t perform well at the Camp...not just Jason but Bradie...yet Alysa & Karen did great among women & Vincent delivered for Men (and Nathan was getting there but minus full arsenal of quads at this stage). Not all bad news, in other words. Rah Team 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸!!!
I’m curious. Was this Live Barn practice footage, footage from the simulated competition, or both? And how clear is it?
 

Karen-W

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By the way, for anyone who watches that garbage, we have video of Jason at Sun Valley, 5 days after Champs Camp, with a lovely 3Lz, textbook perfect stunning 3F, nice airy 3T, and a gorgeous 3A. He skated with all of his usual trademark beauty and in no way, shape or form looked like a skater with a recently-broken ankle who supposedly turned up to Champs Camp "not in shape", "barely doing triples", or "should pull out of his GPs for his sake" or whatever other bullshit they're peddling.
I was wondering about that because I noticed the IG story from Jason at Sun Valley earlier yesterday and was all "huh? he's injured???" while listening to TSL's Champs Camp discussion. Of course, they were also suggesting that he sit out the fall season and show up at Nationals ready to go which... Uhm, yeah, as much as the USFS loves Jason and would like him on the Olympic team, I can't see something like that happening if he only skates at Nationals this season now that BOW has become a major factor.
 

jlb5329

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I’m curious. Was this Live Barn practice footage, footage from the simulated competition, or both? And how clear is it?
Practice footage. Skaters on the sessions running their programs. Anyone can sign up for Live Barn. You don't need to go through TSL. It's $18 a month and then you can cancel. I believe the archive only lasts a month, however. The Champs Camp footage available is from Saturday, Aug. 28.
 

B.Cooper

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By the way, for anyone who watches that garbage, we have video of Jason at Sun Valley, 5 days after Champs Camp, with a lovely 3Lz, textbook perfect stunning 3F, nice airy 3T, and a gorgeous 3A. He skated with all of his usual trademark beauty and in no way, shape or form looked like a skater with a recently-broken ankle who supposedly turned up to Champs Camp "not in shape", "barely doing triples", or "should pull out of his GPs for his sake" or whatever other bullshit they're peddling.
What he did not do at Champs Camp were 3A. That was the bigger issue.
 

marbri

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Practice footage. Skaters on the sessions running their programs. Anyone can sign up for Live Barn. You don't need to go through TSL. It's $18 a month and then you can cancel. I believe the archive only lasts a month, however. The Champs Camp footage available is from Saturday, Aug. 28.
Before I spend any money is there any good ice dance footage? ;)
 

Tavi

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Practice footage. Skaters on the sessions running their programs. Anyone can sign up for Live Barn. You don't need to go through TSL. It's $18 a month and then you can cancel. I believe the archive only lasts a month, however. The Champs Camp footage available is from Saturday, Aug. 28.
Thanks, appreciate the confirmation.
 

misskarne

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What he did not do at Champs Camp were 3A. That was the bigger issue.
So you're trying to tell me he didn't do the 3A at Champs Camp but was then magically able to do it a few days later in a practice for a show on an outdoor rink. Mm-hm.
 

Tavi

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I think it’s pretty common for Jason to mark jumps in practice and run throughs, especially if it’s early season, he’s tired from traveling, or he’s competing later that day.

If TSL’s only source is the above mentioned August 28 Live Barn practice feed and it shows him not jumping a 3A, all it proves is that he didn’t jump a 3A on that day at that session.
 

sheetz

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I have Livebarn and watched both of the available practices with Jason. He made many axel attempts but the vast majority were either doubled or singled. Out of all his attempts I saw one clean 3A. OTOH, he looked ok with 3Lz and 3F. No quad attempts.
 
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Tavi

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I have Livebarn and watched both of the available practices with Jason. He made many axel attempts but the vast majority were either doubled or singled. Out of all his attempts I saw one clean 3A. OTOH, he looked ok with 3Lz and 3F. No quad attempts.
Thanks very much for the info. Just to be clear, are you saying he popped a lot of 3A attempts into doubles and singles, or were some deliberate? I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of pops. But I’ve also definitely seen him practice singles and doubles deliberately.
 

sheetz

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Thanks very much for the info. Just to be clear, are you saying he popped a lot of 3A attempts into doubles and singles, or were some deliberate? I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of pops. But I’ve also definitely seen him practice singles and doubles deliberately.
The doubles looked deliberate. The singles were generally popped triples.

ETA: I mean, there were probably some warm up single axels, but ones towards the end of the practice session were definitely popped triples.
 
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Frau Muller

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Regardless of what happened at the camp, Jason is much more than the jumps. I cannot imagine him being left off the Olympic team, assuming that he stays healthy between now & February. I believe that the Campbell soup cans 2022 are set: Nathan, Vincent & Jason. We have a great bunch of skaters behind them, for the run-up to 2026.
 

Karen-W

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Regardless of what happened at the camp, Jason is much more than the jumps. I cannot imagine him being left off the Olympic team, assuming that he stays healthy between now & February. I believe that the Campbell soup cans 2022 are set: Nathan, Vincent & Jason. We have a great bunch of skaters behind them, for the run-up to 2026.
I can see either Jason or Vincent being left off the team if they are outskated this fall and at Nationals. Mind you, that's a very big "if" and the likelihoodof them both being outskated is extremely low but this isn't a 1998 US women situation - plus, both Jason and Vincent have already been to the Olympics so there isn't a compelling argument to put the on the team again if they are outskated by pretty much any of the other guys in the mix.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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I can see either Jason or Vincent being left off the team if they are outskated this fall and at Nationals. Mind you, that's a very big "if" and the likelihoodof them both being outskated is extremely low but this isn't a 1998 US women situation - plus, both Jason and Vincent have already been to the Olympics so there isn't a compelling argument to put the on the team again if they are outskated by pretty much any of the other guys in the mix.

Who do you think would outskate either of them though? I can’t think of someone realistically in four months that could
 

Karen-W

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Who do you think would outskate either of them though? I can’t think of someone realistically in four months that could
Malinin, Paniot, Naumov, and Ma are working on multiple quads; Hiwatashi and Annis have at least one quad. I don't think it is out of the realm of imagination that one of those guys, especially the ones who have already medaled on the JGP are capable, especially Malinin who is working on at least 4 quads and was landing them like butter in Courchevel per Ted Barton.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Malinin, Paniot, Naumov, and Ma are working on multiple quads; Hiwatashi and Annis have at least one quad. I don't think it is out of the realm of imagination that one of those guys, especially the ones who have already medaled on the JGP are capable, especially Malinin who is working on at least 4 quads and was landing them like butter in Courchevel per Ted Barton.

I see all of them as future contenders but not in four months from now.
 

Tavi

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If Jason has a rocky pre-Olympic season like he did in 2017, and/or a meltdown like he did at 2018 nationals, I’m 100% sure he’ll miss the Olympic team again. Similarly, if Vincent repeats his Worlds 2021 SP, he’s probably off the team, too. I’d be surprised if those things happened again, but it’s certainly possible.

As to whether - absent poor to mediocre performances by Jason or Vincent, they (especially Jason) can be bumped from the team by someone’s dazzling many quad performance at Nats? I think it depends. Quads are mostly valuable because they rack up a lot of points. Right now most of the US men mentioned above have low personal bests compared to Jason, for example, because he gains a lot of points on non quad elements, while they lose them. Could that change? Sure. And it can especially change at Nats, where multi quad programs often go hand in hand with high PCS/GOE. I guess only time will tell.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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If Jason has a rocky pre-Olympic season like he did in 2017, and/or a meltdown like he did at 2018 nationals, I’m 100% sure he’ll miss the Olympic team again. Similarly, if Vincent repeats his Worlds 2021 SP, he’s probably off the team, too. I’d be surprised if those things happened again, but it’s certainly possible.

As to whether - absent poor to mediocre performances by Jason or Vincent, they (especially Jason) can be bumped from the team by someone’s dazzling many quad performance at Nats? I think it depends. Quads are mostly valuable because they rack up a lot of points. Right now most of the US men mentioned above have low personal bests compared to Jason, for example, because he gains a lot of points on non quad elements, while they lose them. Could that change? Sure. And it can especially change at Nats, where multi quad programs often go hand in hand with high PCS/GOE. I guess only time will tell.

I dunno

Sasha Cohen was not known to international senior judges well in 2002 and if you ask me she should’ve been on that podium. True Vincent Did not make the long program at worlds but I do think in Olympic year brand recognition has worth ....but who knows

Vincent already is a world medalist and Bradie in her first senior year she didn’t get high marks in her first senior year from international judges, and I can’t see any of the above mentioned men including Tomoki getting top 10 scores... again it’s just my opinion

An exception to this would be semeNenko, but if u ask me he truly has it all
 
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sundayspirals

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If Jason has a rocky pre-Olympic season like he did in 2017, and/or a meltdown like he did at 2018 nationals, I’m 100% sure he’ll miss the Olympic team again. Similarly, if Vincent repeats his Worlds 2021 SP, he’s probably off the team, too. I’d be surprised if those things happened again, but it’s certainly possible.

As to whether - absent poor to mediocre performances by Jason or Vincent, they (especially Jason) can be bumped from the team by someone’s dazzling many quad performance at Nats? I think it depends. Quads are mostly valuable because they rack up a lot of points. Right now most of the US men mentioned above have low personal bests compared to Jason, for example, because he gains a lot of points on non quad elements, while they lose them. Could that change? Sure. And it can especially change at Nats, where multi quad programs often go hand in hand with high PCS/GOE. I guess only time will tell.
In addition to hitting at Nats, the multi-quadsters would probably also have to show a certain level of consistency throughout the Fall in order to be considered. Hitting at Nats might not be enough.
 

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