US Supreme Court Justice Kennedy Retiring

once_upon

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,280
Ratings
15,898
I can and do vote. I can and do encourage others to vote. I can and do encourage voter registration. My vote is only one in a state that votes Republican year after year after year.

My representatives will be Fischer and Fortenberry. Others not directly my reps but still are part of who determine laws/policies are Sasse and Bacon. All vote for Trumpian legislation and SC nominations. It's always been that way, Republican party votes no matter what.

I would/do fight for change. But I live in a Frau M state. With Trump/Pence signs still up in this county.
 

rfisher

So this is all we are, lunch! Goodbye krill world.
Messages
53,972
Ratings
42,617
^^^
I understand how you feel.
My area of FL is much the same.

Worse yet, you are thought to be "unpatriotic" if you are known to support the opposition.
Who cares what you are thought to be? I'm in a red state too, but states change. For one thing, all the promises Trump made regarding jobs haven't happened. His trade war with China is going to hurt a lot of the people who voted for Trump (of course, he managed to negotiate a contract for his daughter). Harley-Davidson shifted jobs to Europe due to the trade issues. N Korea is increasing its nuclear facilities, not removing. What a surprise. There is a reason McConnell is desperate to get the SCOTUS nom before November. It will happen and we'll all deal with the consequences. But, nobody ever thought a black man would be elected president, except he was. With few exceptions, the WH and legislature changes parties every 8 years. And, with few exceptions, both parties are sure they will be in power forever. They aren't. The 50s led to the 60s which led to the 70s which led to the 80s and so forth. There are more people of color than there are low economic white voters. When those people decide to stand up and fight back, change will happen. Again. It always does. One side becomes complacent and the other wins the next election. If Roe v Wade is overturned, the world won't end. Maybe it will cause enough people who support women's rights to stop talking and start voting. Complacency and apathy are the enemy.

There is nothing we can do regarding the SC. There is plenty we can do in November and in two years.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,380
Ratings
39,084
I think people are mistaking people going in this thread and venting their frustrations with not continuing to fight or fighting. Most likely a lot of people who are venting are tired and frustrated because they have been doing a lot of the work people are accusing people of not doing. I don't think it helps to be lectured at when a lot of people feel like they have been doing their part and fighting. Maybe we all need to work harder, change strategies, or whatever, but it's not as if all people posting in this thread have just been sitting around complaining and doing nothing else.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,380
Ratings
39,084
Regarding Kennedy's departure, this Above the Law write up is pretty scathing but I can't say that I ultimate disagree with it:

Fresh off of helping white supremacists defend bigotry towards gays, Muslims, and blacks, Kennedy is peacing out.

The article noted that some legal scholars have already suspected this after reading his concurring opinion in the travel ban case. They said it had a note of defeatism and signaled his mic drop.

Here's the new reality now:

Chief Justice John Roberts, fresh off of authoring Korematsu 2, becomes the Court’s “swing” justice.

The night is dark and full of terrors. I don’t know what to tell you.
 

BittyBug

And the band played on
Messages
20,287
Ratings
15,874
I don't think it helps to be lectured at when a lot of people feel like they have been doing their part and fighting.
I don't think @rfisher is lecturing, but rather providing some historical perspective. As John Lewis said:

Do not get lost in a sea of despair. Be hopeful, be optimistic. Our struggle is not the struggle of a day, a week, a month, or a year, it is the struggle of a lifetime. Never, ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble, necessary trouble.
However, I would also point to another lesson from history: no empire lasts forever. We've had a good 240+ year run, but I'm not sure that our country can survive an electoral college system that allows the minority to rule with such impunity and disregard for what the majority wants.
 

snoopy

Team St. Petersburg
Messages
10,766
Ratings
8,458
Well the British and the Romans didn't cease to exist. The power centers just moved. I think Trump's policies accelerated the decline of US power and the rise of Asia. America will still be around but China will be the sole superpower shortly.

Despite all their braying, the people who want to defeat multi-culturalism are 40 years too late.
 

rfisher

So this is all we are, lunch! Goodbye krill world.
Messages
53,972
Ratings
42,617
I don't think @rfisher is lecturing, but rather providing some historical perspective. As John Lewis said:



However, I would also point to another lesson from history: no empire lasts forever. We've had a good 240+ year run, but I'm not sure that our country can survive an electoral college system that allows the minority to rule with such impunity and disregard for what the majority wants.
This. Historically, the US government has lasted a long time and may not survive in its current form another 100 years. There are a lot of people on both ends of the political spectrum that are predicting another Civil War within the next decade. Which may happen. We're not immune to what has happened in other countries. I hope not, but if it does, it does. I do agree that Trump has pushed the US over the edge in terms of world economy and power. He didn't do it single handedly, but he's the catalyst for the end. And, by the time most people realize it, it will be too late. Just as it was for Rome and England and the Inca and the Maya and so on and so forth.
 

snoopy

Team St. Petersburg
Messages
10,766
Ratings
8,458
This is an aside but I am seeing a lot of nepotism in the corporate world lately. It is sad to think the 1900s were an aberration and we are going to revert to the mean where familial lineage is the primary determinate of wealth and power.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,011
Ratings
11,840
Exactly. Yes, there will be losses due to the court, but if people who value justice, fairness, and humanity, stand up and vote for like minded people, the shift will happen. Moreover, there are no guarantees the SC won't shift again with the next Potus. Who anticapated Scalia would die.
On that note, there is also the possibility that Trump will get to appoint a third judge.


And lastly, Democrats and Independents have to get off their asses and work at the local level to get people registered to vote so there aren' t issues with voter suppression. The demographics in this country are shifting.
That is exactly why Republicans need all the help they can get. So far, the judicial branch wasn't of help to them but now it will be. They can uphold gerrymandered districts and if they uphold them, Republicans can continue to make them worse and worse. They can continue to weaken the Voting Rights Act. Couple that with continued election interference and turnout might not matter at one point.

The legislative branch is failing to secure elections because Republicans are all too happy to ignore the interference. They value their power more than they value their country and democracy, obviously. We all know that the executive branch has no interest in free and fair elections. If the judicial branch also fails to protect voters who is left to protest them? Who is left to protect democracy?

Yes, demographics are changing and yes, the balance of the court might shift again. But who says that US democracy has the time to wait?




Flake has no interest in using a SC nomination to strong-arm the administration https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news...eme-court-pick-over-tariff-dispute/740424002/
 

rfisher

So this is all we are, lunch! Goodbye krill world.
Messages
53,972
Ratings
42,617
Yes, all those things are possible. I think everybody is aware of what could happen and may well happen. So, as @snoopy said, you either roll over and play dead or you continue to fight as long as you can. Ireland, voted for same sex marriage and abortion within the last couple of years. Votes that would have been considered impossible as recently as 5 years ago. So people can be persuaded.
 

attyfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,187
Ratings
2,323
Also, some appointees have not turned out as expected. I somehow doubt that conservative George H W Bush thought his appointee -- David Souter -- would become a comparatively liberal justice, and, I know that Eisenhower was shocked out of his wits when his appointee -- the CA governor who requested that the Japanese be interned -- also changed when he realized what he had done (Earl Warren)
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,011
Ratings
11,840
Also, some appointees have not turned out as expected. I somehow doubt that conservative George H W Bush thought his appointee -- David Souter -- would become a comparatively liberal justice, and, I know that Eisenhower was shocked out of his wits when his appointee -- the CA governor who requested that the Japanese be interned -- also changed when he realized what he had done (Earl Warren)

The difference is that Bush's nominee was merely a conservative nominee. Trump on the other hand, is digging up the racists and sexists and homophobes. Being conservative is merely the mask Trump nominees hide behind to excuse their racism, sexism and homophobia.
 

twinsissv

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,782
Ratings
4,532
And all of this time, I've been worrying about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. :(

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein

To TrumPutin: "A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny." -an Aesop's Fable

To Congress: "In any organization, everyone rises to their own level of incompetence." -the Peter Principle

"The country has always been stronger the wider we open our arms...not the tighter we hold them to ourselves."
-John Meacham

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional...takes a little longer." -Henry Kissinger

MEMO TO SELF: "FOR EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE ANGRY, YOU LOSE SIXTY SECONDS OF HAPPINESS." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
 

BittyBug

And the band played on
Messages
20,287
Ratings
15,874
Also, some appointees have not turned out as expected. I somehow doubt that conservative George H W Bush thought his appointee -- David Souter -- would become a comparatively liberal justice, and, I know that Eisenhower was shocked out of his wits when his appointee -- the CA governor who requested that the Japanese be interned -- also changed when he realized what he had done (Earl Warren)
While this is true, considering that "the list" has been developed by the Federalist Society, I think they've probably done their due diligence to ensure the candidates' conservative credentials. Of course, people can change but I would bet that the 25 are pretty hard right.
Maybe he will appoint his sister...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...radical-pro-abortion-extremist/?noredirect=on

He won't, but it would be fun to watch.
I'd actually love this as she is pretty liberal.
 

BittyBug

And the band played on
Messages
20,287
Ratings
15,874
I'm pretty sure Kennedy was well aware of the candidates being considered to replace him, since Trumps "Top 25" list has been public and publicized for a while, so I think it's safe to assume that he is 100% ok with the court moving right. Everyone talks about Kennedy being a swing vote, and he was on certain memorable cases, but he far frequently sided with the conservative majority on some pretty regressive decisions. Just look at this week's rulings.
 

BittyBug

And the band played on
Messages
20,287
Ratings
15,874
So it turns out that Anthony Kennedy's son was one of Trump's personal bankers at Deutsche Bank, approving over $1B in loans at a time when other financial institutions deemed Trump Org not worthy of credit due to their repeated bankruptcies. :shuffle:

“Say hello to your boy,” Mr. Trump said. “Special guy.” Mr. Trump was apparently referring to Justice Kennedy’s son, Justin. The younger Mr. Kennedy spent more than a decade at Deutsche Bank, eventually rising to become the bank’s global head of real estate capital markets, and he worked closely with Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer, according to two people with knowledge of his role.
During Mr. Kennedy’s tenure, Deutsche Bank became Mr. Trump’s most important lender, dispensing well over $1 billion in loans to him for the renovation and construction of skyscrapers in New York and Chicago at a time other mainstream banks were wary of doing business with him because of his troubled business history.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/trump-anthony-kennedy-retirement.html
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,798
Ratings
3,526

MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
Messages
26,956
Ratings
18,614
I'm seeing some hysterical posts about a "conspiracy" over this. I don't get it. So Trump got favors from Son Kennedy. How does that give him leverage over Dad Kennedy? It doesn't. If anything, it's the other way around.

So all this hand-wringing about how Trump forced Kennedy out make no sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)