US elections 2021-2022

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,363
That's not true, and you know it. Two-thirds of the eligible voters cast a ballot in 2020 -
I did not know that about eligible voters, but I didn't say most eligible voters. I said most Americans. According to Mr. Google, only about 70-75% of American adults are registered to vote. So 25-30% of adults who aren't registered and 40% of those who are is not "most Americans."

As far as the budgets, programs, etc, you're probably right, but my statement about the GOP wanting to get rid of the Dept of Education isn't that specific. And, no, I know it's not in the party platform, but it's not a position that is uncommon amongst elected GOP politicians, in large part because they're tired of the DC establishment condescending to them about "knowing best." The results certainly bear that notion out, now don't they? :rolleyes:
I'm sure the majority of GOP elected officials who are at a. high enough level to care know all about this stuff and definitely want to get rid of many departments. They are not "most Americans" by any measure.

If most Americans had the knowledge necessary to make these kinds of judgments, our country would be in much better shape, IMO.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
Bypass the Dept of Education and give it to the states directly.

Why would any decent GOP House member give a dime to the Biden Dept of Education after all the shenanigans of the last 2.5 years with regard to the pandemic? The GOP already hated the federal Dept of Education before then and would love nothing more than to eliminate it entirely.

Of course, most Americans realize this and don't ask silly questions which show they're clearly not nearly as familiar with American politics as they think, no matter how often they chime in on this or any other US politics thread around here...
What shenanigans? What does the pandemic have to anything to do with mental health resourcing for public schools?

The GOP at the moment will vote against anything the Dems put forward which any person with basic critical thinking ability can see. It is not even about commonsense legislative progress. It is solely about "getting the Dems" and trying to then blame them for not getting anything done. It was evidenced by the burn pit legislation where the GOP voted against it because they got outsmarted by Manchin even though they are voted for it previously. Then when they copped a load of sh*t for what they did they backed down.

Trust me, regardless of your snide comment about those of us outside the US making comments, some of us can see what is happening and know that if the GOP get control of the House and Senate, your country will go down the crapper. People are literally going to die. Mainly women who will have no control over their reproductive healthcare.

And again I will ask the question which I don't see any GOP supporters here answer - what positive measures are the GOP wanting to do that benefit the average American?
 
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Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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I did not know that about eligible voters, but I didn't say most eligible voters. I said most Americans. According to Mr. Google, only about 70-75% of American adults are registered to vote. So 25-30% of adults who aren't registered and 40% of those who are is not "most Americans."
Tsk tsk tsk... Someone didn't read the press release I linked...

APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020 presidential election had the highest voter turnout of the 21st century, with 66.8% of citizens 18 years and older voting in the election, according to new voting and registration tables released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. These data come from the 2020 Current Population Survey Voting and Registration Supplement for the November 2020 presidential election, which surveyed the civilian noninstitutionalized population in the United States.'

Please, enlighten me as to exactly what part of that press release says that it only includes American adults who are registered to vote? Given that this is coming directly from the U.S. Census Bureau, certainly a far more reliable source than "Mr. Google", I am operating under the assumption that they know exactly how many people voted and did the basic math of dividing that number by the overall population of American citizens 18 & older.

Oh, and 100% - 66.8% = 33.2%, which is a lot smaller than your "40%" - ain't math fun?
If most Americans had the knowledge necessary to make these kinds of judgments, our country would be in much better shape, IMO.
Yes, indeed. But, maybe stop acting like only one party knows better, mmmkay? There are a lot of areas where that party has colossally screwed up, and keep screwing up.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,222
What shenanigans? What does the pandemic have to anything to do with mental health resourcing for public schools?

The GOP at the moment will vote against anything the Dems put forward which any person with basic critical thinking ability can see. It is not even about commonsense legislative progress. It is solely about "getting the Dems" and trying to then blame them for not getting anything done. It was evidenced by the burn pit legislation where the GOP voted against it because they got outsmarted by Manchin even though they are voted for it previously. Then when they copped a load of sh*t for what they did they back downed.

Trust me, regardless of your snide comment about those of us outside the US making comments, some of us can see what is happening and know that if the GOP get control of the House and Senate, your country will go down the crapper. People are literally going to die. Mainly women who will have no control over their reproductive healthcare.

And again I will ask the question which I don't see any GOP supporters here answer - what positive measures are the GOP wanting to do that benefit the average American?
It really seems as though if a politician isn’t proposing more spending or more programs you don’t believe they want to do anything for people. That the purpose of a politician is to vote for more government to solve any and all issues.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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It really seems as though if a politician isn’t proposing more spending or more programs you don’t believe they want to do anything for people. That the purpose of a politician is to vote for more government to solve any and all issues.
Well again tell me what the GOP want to do to help people which is why they get voted into their positions. That is their accountability. I am waiting.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,363
certainly a far more reliable source than "Mr. Google",
I hate to tell you... but Mr Google knows how to find stuff on the US Census Bureau's website. :lol:

Anyway, I don't debate with people being an ass. You know damn well that most Americans aren't educated enough about this issue to have the sort of sophisticated and nuanced viewpoint you claimed they have and, even if they were educated about it, there is no evidence that the majority would hold this viewpoint anyway.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
I hate to tell you... but Mr Google knows how to find stuff on the US Census Bureau's website. :lol:

Anyway, I don't debate with people being an ass. You know damn well that most Americans aren't educated enough about this issue to have the sort of sophisticated and nuanced viewpoint you claimed they have and, even if they were educated about it, there is no evidence that the majority would hold this viewpoint anyway.
I think most of us also realise when we are being gaslighted.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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13,261
State distribution of federal money also has it's problems.

For example, consider Brett Favre's use of welfare money in Mississippi:


MDHS provided federal funds to two nonprofit organizations and then directed the two nonprofit organizations to fraudulently award contracts to various entities and individuals for social services that were never provided," read the release.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
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27,892
Bypass the Dept of Education and give it to the states directly.

Why would any decent GOP House member give a dime to the Biden Dept of Education after all the shenanigans of the last 2.5 years with regard to the pandemic? The GOP already hated the federal Dept of Education before then and would love nothing more than to eliminate it entirely.
Um, who was president when the schools shut down?

(which, btw, was the right decision at the time based on what we knew then)
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, T&M, P&C
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The Republican Party is still supporting Hershel Walker after the story about him paying or the abortion of his then girlfriend.

The approval of Putin has increased among the current republicans, as per Morning Joe. They are not even shy about which way they want to go. They are openly supporting dictatorship.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
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18,222
Well again tell me what the GOP want to do to help people which is why they get voted into their positions. That is their accountability. I am waiting.
On one issue they agree on is a want to make production of fossil fuels much easier and quicker. Hire lots of people for pipeline building, drilling, mining.

The democrats with some republicans too passed a infrastructure bill but the bill doesn’t limit environmental lawsuits at all. So even though democrats are bragging about infrastructure because of lawsuits it could actually take 10 years before anything is done. In fact liberal democrats just blocked a bill making permitting easier. Not as easy as it should be though because it still allows lawsuits to block almost everything. The Republican bill is very strict with lawsuits and would virtually end them.

The party is so divided on almost every issue that while it can be said republicans have introduced many bills to make approval of generic drugs very quick and easy republicans owned by drug companies like Ryan and McConnell always killed it!

So many things are proposed by populist republicans or trump republicans that corporate Koch republicans kill. Koch/neocons bush types are still so numerous. They used to try to pass health savings accounts and they passed reimbursement of drug companies for lower prescriptions cost.

One of the reasons republicans had no new platform in 2020 and reused 2016’s is the extreme division. Not sure how much longer the party can actually continue.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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22,976
I hate to tell you... but Mr Google knows how to find stuff on the US Census Bureau's website. :lol:
Precisely. So, where are you getting the information that refutes the press release I also found via Mr. Google - it was the first result that came up when I asked "How many Americans voted in 2020?" You're arguing that because only 70-75% of American adults are registered to vote that, indeed, "most Americans" don't vote. I asked you to prove that assumption because that is NOT what that press release from the US Census Bureau said. And, even if your assumption is correct, you could still be wrong. Or, you could be right, depending on exactly how many American adults are registered to vote.

75% x 66.8% = 50.1
70% x 66.8% = 46.8

I realize you don't like anyone proving you wrong in this particular discussion thread, but I didn't realize just how much you didn't like it until this little exchange back and forth. Yeesh. :rolleyes:
Anyway, I don't debate with people being an ass. You know damn well that most Americans aren't educated enough about this issue to have the sort of sophisticated and nuanced viewpoint you claimed they have and, even if they were educated about it, there is no evidence that the majority would hold this viewpoint anyway.
You really do have a low opinion of "most Americans," don't you?
I think most of us also realise when we are being gaslighted.
You want to talk about gaslighting? Read the comment from @MacMadame again and tell me how that isn't gaslighting? And condescending as heck. Clearly she believes that most Americans are just not educated enough to have the ability to vote with any sort of sophistication or nuance. Her attitude toward anyone who doesn't vote the way she thinks they should on any topic comes through loud and clear in every single one of her posts. She might as well pat their heads and say "poor dears, you just don't know any better, do you?" while telling them why they're wrong.
The Republican Party is still supporting Hershel Walker after the story about him paying or the abortion of his then girlfriend.
Did you really expect them to abandon ship over a yet unproven allegation? Especially when that would mean Warnock (who is no saint himself) would win?
The approval of Putin has increased among the current republicans, as per Morning Joe. They are not even shy about which way they want to go. They are openly supporting dictatorship.
What I'm hearing from the small, but loud, anti-proxy war faction of the GOP, is a concern that we are pushing Putin into a corner that would mean nuclear war is all but guaranteed - and a real concern that it would mean total world destruction, or at least certain destruction of all of the US, because the power and destruction of nuclear bombs has increased so much since Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

I usually tune those rants out when Tucker Carlson goes on one of them (which is at least a couple times a week), but he's the only person in the entire Fox line-up who has been consistently anti-proxy war in the last six months. I wouldn't classify him as a Putin supporter really - just as someone who sees this war we're engaged in supporting as a zero-gain proposition, ultimately. And he really doesn't believe that Russia was behind blowing up the Nordstream pipelines. He's very skeptical of everything coming out of the Biden administration's mouths, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

Now, there are a couple of other Fox talking heads who despise Putin, but are bothered by the amount of money (which seems like a bottomless, endless bucket) we are giving to aid Ukraine in fighting the proxy war for us. Also, a fair criticism of the administration.

But, overall, I think Morning Joe is grossly exaggerating the level of approval for Putin within the GOP. Doubling support from 1% to 2%, or from 2% to 4% doesn't mean there's any traction there within the greater part of the GOP, at least not right now. And I would want to dive into whatever poll he is citing, because I'm rather dubious of the claim that there is increasing support for Putin - anti-proxy war support, yes; Putin support, no. But, if you can recall Joe Scarborough's source for this claim, that would be wonderful. :)
 
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Dai's Blues for Klook

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1,540
I, too, would like to supplant my country's democracy with my own dictatorship which will make sure to spend more and more money each year in inviting the best looking kpop and mandopop boys for concerts, because I know better than most people here that this is what will turn my country into a peaceful, prosperous one!

I might or might not have typed this post after having just weeped with joy over what a kpop boy I stan just posted.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,363
I realize you don't like anyone proving you wrong in this particular discussion thread, but I didn't realize just how much you didn't like it until this little exchange back and forth. Yeesh. :rolleyes:
:lol:

I already said I didn't realize how many registered voters had voted. But sure, I am the one who can't admit I was wrong. Not the person who is still insisting that "most" Americans voted when it's apparently only 50.1%, a number based on an estimate for how many Americans are eligible to vote, which is not actually a known quantity.

But it does look like the numbers who are voting are going up. I hope maybe someday we can have the kinds of numbers that other countries have. At least 75% seems like a reasonable goal to me.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,336
But it does look like the numbers who are voting are going up. I hope maybe someday we can have the kinds of numbers that other countries have. At least 75% seems like a reasonable goal to me.
We need to keep making it easier for people to vote as we did in 2020 with mail-in voting, mailing ballots to all registered voters (waiting for mine as we speak!), extended early voting (such as the 40 days prior to the election in Virginia) and ballot drop boxes.

ETA: I think one of the biggest problems is that people don't vote as much in non-presidential elections and various less well known local elections. So I think holding elections as much as possible on the same day rather than having multiple election days and off year elections is a good idea.

They had an election in Providence over the summer that was solely over one bond issue referendum or some such thing (DC doesn't have these). No one voted, well my sister did :lol: Well of course people didn't vote who would even know?
 
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MacMadame

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51,363
We need to keep making it easier for people to vote as we did in 2020 with mail-in voting, mailing ballots to all registered voters (waiting for mine as we speak!), extended early voting (such as the 40 days prior to the election in Virginia) and ballot drop boxes.
I agree!

And, also, there is no way one voter can be educated about every issue but I do think our educational system could do a better job of teaching people how to research issues. And maybe we need better laws about how political ads can be done because there are some exceedingly misleading ones out there. I think people give up when they can't figure out an issue. And it can lead to not voting at all if there are enough of those on the ballot.
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,925
I'm truly radical when it comes to who can vote and I know if we can't provide the right to vote for our current population I will never be listened to.

Our country was founded om the "no taxation without representation" princple when revolting against the English Empire. We have many, many people living in the US who pay US and state taxes including those under 18. I believe they should have a say in what policies are developed and especially where and what their taxes go to.

Just me. My husband disagrees with me as will the majority of the US. But we tax them why don't they get a say.
 

MacMadame

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51,363
I don't think people need perfect information to vote. Often I agree with a candidate on some issues and not on others and on others I just don't know enough to judge. I think that's okay.
I think it's okay too. I mean "ignorant" just means you don't know something. It's not a moral judgment. (Unless you qualify it with 'willfully')

I've been thinking more about the state of voting in our country and I do agree more people should be eligible. In particular, if you are convicted of a crime and do your time, you should then have all the rights as someone who hasn't been convicted. I mean that's the whole idea of doing your time.

I also think that, while it looks like the numbers who are voting are improving, it's still kind of sad that in the 2020 Presidential election where we had a record number of voters it was still only barely a majority of eligible voters. If you look at the 2018 midterms, it's even more dismal.

I think not only should more people be eligible to vote and it should be easier to vote, but it should also be easier to be registered to vote. In fact, I think everyone should be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18.
 
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Pink Cats

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167
I think it's okay too. I mean "ignorant" just means you don't know something. It's not a moral judgment. (Unless you qualify

I've been thinking more about the state of voting in our country and I do agree more people should be eligible. In particular, if you are convicted of a crime and do your time, you should then have all the rights as someone who hasn't been convicted. I mean that's the whole idea of doing your time.

I also think that, while it looks like the numbers who are voting are improving, it's still kind of sad that in the 2020 Presidential election where we had a record number of voters it was still only barely a majority of eligible voters. If you look at the 2018 midterms, it's even more dismal.

I think not only should more people be eligible to vote and it should be easier to vote, but it should also be easier to be registered to vote. In fact, I think everyone should be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18.

We have the same turn out problems in Canada. I think they should make it a law that you have to vote like Australia does. I also think they should consider lowering the voting age to 16.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,363
We have the same turn out problems in Canada. I think they should make it a law that you have to vote like Australia does. I also think they should consider lowering the voting age to 16.
There is a movement afoot in parts of the US to do that for school board elections. I know a bunch of High School students who have a better grasp of what is going on with the school board than most adults!
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,925
I think high school is a good age to engage young people in the voting process. Imagine the experience in a US Government class - like finding resources to use to make decisions, the importance of local elections, and other stuff.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,363
We have the same turn out problems in Canada. I think they should make it a law that you have to vote like Australia does.
Forgot to say that I have mixed feelings about that. I think it would work but it seems kind of anti-American to me. Anyway, in this case, I prefer the carrot to the stick.
 

Susan1

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We have the same turn out problems in Canada. I think they should make it a law that you have to vote like Australia does. I also think they should consider lowering the voting age to 16.
How do they force people to vote? What happens if they don't? If you force someone who doesn't want to vote, wouldn't they vote for the worse candidate out of spite?
ETA -
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
You really do have a low opinion of "most Americans," don't you?
No I don't. I have been to the US a couple of times and loved the place and met many wonderful people. I do not put all Americans in the same bucket. I would go back in an instant. And actually I found that you could have really good respectful political discussions with people, even though they sat on the other side of the fence. And this was during 2016 when the Republican and Democratic conventions were being held.

But being critical of the current MAGA and GQP is a low opinion of those people. And being critical of a political party whose core has become just attacking the opposition and constantly telling lies cannot engender nothing but horror and disgust. But it has also become a joke because it is so ridiculous. Just the interviews by even the right-wing media at Trump rallies demonstrates a real lack of critical thinking and subjection to conspiracy theories. It is a small world and these things constantly come up on FB. I see it with my own eyes.

You keep telling anyone who disagrees with you that WE are wrong. You say that directly to US. That is gaslighting. So don't be surprised when it comes back to you.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
How do they force people to vote? What happens if they don't? If you force someone who doesn't want to vote, wouldn't they vote for the worse candidate out of spite?
ETA -
I think it is a $50 fine. But you can get out of it by just claiming that you voted in the wrong electorate (which I did once) or say it it is against your religious principles (I know Jehovah's Witnesses do that). We have local government elections at the moment which is compulsory but it is postal vote so I had mine sent in the mail. I just have to complete and send back.

You know what, most people just do it. We all get why we do it. You only have to submit a vote but you can leave a your ballot paper anyway you like (either blank or write "voting sucks" or draw d*cks all over it). That is an informal vote and they are not counted.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

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No I don't. I have been to the US a couple of times and loved the place and met many wonderful people. I do not put all Americans in the same bucket. I would go back in an instant. And actually I found that you could have really good respectful political discussions with people, even though they sat on the other side of the fence. And this was during 2016 when the Republican and Democratic conventions were being held.

But being critical of the current MAGA and GQP is a low opinion of those people. And being critical of a political party whose core has become just attacking the opposition and constantly telling lies cannot engender nothing but horror and disgust. But it has also become a joke because it is so ridiculous. Just the interviews by even the right-wing media at Trump rallies demonstrates a real lack of critical thinking and subjection to conspiracy theories. It is a small world and these things constantly come up on FB. I see it with my own eyes.
That sentence was clearly addressed to macmadame saying "You know damn well that most Americans aren't educated enough about this issue to have the sort of sophisticated and nuanced viewpoint you claimed they have"... Nothing you said really applies there, and actually you're agreeing with @Karen-W.

You keep telling anyone who disagrees with you that WE are wrong. You say that directly to US. That is gaslighting. So don't be surprised when it comes back to you.
Telling someone they are wrong about numbers... well.

Gaslighting isn't telling someone they are wrong directly to them either... it's a psychologically abusive tactic employed to make people doubt their own sanity (and pretty much accusations of it I've seen online are just irritating exaggerations).
 

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