US elections 2021-2022

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
70,877
I completed paperwork to serve as a poll worker in AR yesterday. I couldn't find my voter registration card to look up the precinct so I went online to find it (I did find it later). I couldn't believe the fine print on voter registration. It doesn't matter if you register to vote if the county doesn't process your application. Oops, too bad. They forgot to send it. Your problem, not ours. It literally said that on the website. And, how many people know how to find the Secretary of State's website to find out if they are indeed registered?

Mine was fine. I'm white. But, I wonder exactly how many POC's voter registration conveniently never makes it to the county clerk's office? It can take up to 30 days to process the application which means no same day voter registration no matter if you have ID or not. I was absolutely appalled the more I read the page. And, there is no option to request a new card! You don't have to have the card if you are registered, but you're going to get the squinty eye if you don't. I'd printed my information with a screen shot just in case I couldn't find mine, but I went through the file cabinet where it should have been and eventually found it.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
This is personal: Mastrianno is attacking Dem Josh Shapiro for going to “elite” schools - which includes my private, religious but certainly non-elite high school:


This is just barely cloaked antisemitism.

Sorry, but it's disingenuous to say that these are not elite schools. Akiba Hebrew costs $38k per year in tuition, and Foman (boarding) costs $86k(!) per year. An average private school in PA costs $11k per year. These are among the most expensive schools not only in Pennsylvania but the nation and the world, without a doubt in the top 5% of most expensive private schools. Your description that these are not "elite" is patently false.

I don't think there's anything antisemitic in the clip you posted. The same statements would be true if he went to Germantown Friends or the Hill School.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
Sorry, but it's disingenuous to say that these are not elite schools. Akiba Hebrew costs $38k per year in tuition, and Foman (boarding) costs $86k(!) per year. An average private school in PA costs $11k per year. These are among the most expensive schools not only in Pennsylvania but the nation and the world, without a doubt in the top 5% of most expensive private schools. Your description that these are not "elite" is patently false.

I don't think there's anything antisemitic in the clip you posted. The same statements would be true if he went to Germantown Friends or the Hill School.
When Josh (and I) went there it was comparable in cost to Catholic schools. When they sold out to the big Republican donor who renamed the school, they built a fancy building with all the fancy stuff.

A lot of kids get substantial scholarships as well. But combined with Doug’s Gab account and palsiness with overt antisemites, neither I nor anyone else in the community has a doubt what he means.

Cynically, Doug wasn’t going to get any Jewish votes anyway so what does he care.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,984
So what if someone sent their kids to a private school? Isn't the US a country of choice, including how you are educated. Isn't that something that all Americans want to see their kids and if they can afford then go for it?

What is disingenuous is Mastriano claiming about facts, yet he pushes the stolen election narrative which is a big bunch of lies. And when his lord and master Trump is apparently a man of the people from his ivory tower who grifts from the very people he "claims" to represent.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
1,811
Common sense has again prevailed in my former county. The MAGA folks have been annoying the elections office with requests for this or that paperwork regarding the 2020 election, completely burying the workers in paperwork demands to the point they can't even get ready for the midterm elections. Mind you, this is in a very red county that went overwhelmingly for Trump and haven't elected a Democrat for anything in decades. Even the mostly MAGA board of supervisors took pity, and except for one lone dissenter, "approved" the 2020 election results and is allowing the county elections clerk to destroy the ballots.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
So what if someone sent their kids to a private school? Isn't the US a country of choice, including how you are educated. Isn't that something that all Americans want to see their kids and if they can afford then go for it?

What is disingenuous is Mastriano claiming about facts, yet he pushes the stolen election narrative which is a big bunch of lies. And when his lord and master Trump is apparently a man of the people from his ivory tower who grifts from the very people he "claims" to represent.
Jake Tapper just did ten minutes on this (at about 20 past the hour if you want to watch the replay.) He made the same points I did, although having contacted the school he had the precise number of kids on scholarship (50%).
 
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Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
So what if someone sent their kids to a private school?

I have more respect for politicians who eat their own dogfood, so to speak.

Politicians who send their own children to private schools, yet who oppose charter schools, school vouchers, or other school choices, are hypocrites. Ditto politicians who advocated for or supported public school closures while sending their children to in-person school.

Mastriano is an anti-lockdown hero, but some of his other positions are hard to stomach, even for me. (He may well be anti-semitic; I don't know, I haven't followed the race closely because he doesn't have a chance. And I don't know what "Gab" is and probably don't want to know.)

Keep in mind he won the primary in part because Shapiro (his opponent) and the Democratic Party of PA funneled money into his campaign, thinking he'd be the easiest to beat. (They were almost certainly right.) Mastriano is so far right that I'm not sure he could win Mississippi or Wyoming, much less PA, which is blue-leaning purple.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,035
Big money groups, including the Democratic Governor's Association, have been running ads amplifying the message of extremist candidates. Meaning they are getting the messages of election deniers more air time.

I find that appalling.
That’s not what the ads I’ve seen really say. Abortion guns and wall
Sorry, but it's disingenuous to say that these are not elite schools. Akiba Hebrew costs $38k per year in tuition, and Foman (boarding) costs $86k(!) per year. An average private school in PA costs $11k per year. These are among the most expensive schools not only in Pennsylvania but the nation and the world, without a doubt in the top 5% of most expensive private schools. Your description that these are not "elite" is patently false.

I don't think there's anything antisemitic in the clip you posted. The same statements would be true if he went to Germantown Friends or the Hill School.
Wow! I was going over some elite catholic schools tuition near where I live and it’s half of these schools tuition! It’s true lots of the catholic schools near me are considered elite. Compared to these schools though they are cheap! lol

Shapiro did go to an elite school. No doubt about it any way
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
I have more respect for politicians who eat their own dogfood, so to speak.

Politicians who send their own children to private schools, yet who oppose charter schools, school vouchers, or other school choices, are hypocrites. Ditto politicians who advocated for or supported public school closures while sending their children to in-person school.

Mastriano is an anti-lockdown hero, but some of his other positions are hard to stomach, even for me. (He may well be anti-semitic; I don't know, I haven't followed the race closely because he doesn't have a chance. And I don't know what "Gab" is and probably don't want to know.)

Keep in mind he won the primary in part because Shapiro (his opponent) and the Democratic Party of PA funneled money into his campaign, thinking he'd be the easiest to beat. (They were almost certainly right.) Mastriano is so far right that I'm not sure he could win Mississippi or Wyoming, much less PA, which is blue-leaning purple.
The Dems ran ads painting him as a far-right Trumpy which he certainly is. The fact that it helped him tells you where the base is even in PA.

Shapiro is an observant, kosher-keeping and Sabbath-keeping Jew. He shouldn’t be able to send his kids to a Jewish school? He opposes public funding for religious schools as almost all Dems do, which is fine by me. Meanwhile the GOzp is all over millions going to religious schools…

Akiba (now Barrack) was closed for in-person schooling as long as the public schools were. I’d expect nothing less of a school with hundreds of Jewish mothers. :lol: They’re probably still wearing masks.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,035
The Dems ran ads painting him as a far-right Trumpy which he certainly is. The fact that it helped him tells you where the base is even in PA.

Shapiro is an observant, kosher-keeping and Sabbath-keeping Jew. He shouldn’t be able to send his kids to a Jewish school? He opposes public funding for religious schools as almost all Dems do, which is fine by me. Meanwhile the GOzp is all over millions going to religious schools…

Akiba (now Barrack) was closed for in-person schooling as long as the public schools were. I’d expect nothing less of a school with hundreds of Jewish mothers. :lol: They’re probably still wearing masks.
Why is giving parents money to send their kids to great schools bad? Democrats want to give money to people to by electric cars, healthcare, solar panels, you name it but not schools? The answer is no because of teachers unions
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,984
I have more respect for politicians who eat their own dogfood, so to speak.

Politicians who send their own children to private schools, yet who oppose charter schools, school vouchers, or other school choices, are hypocrites. Ditto politicians who advocated for or supported public school closures while sending their children to in-person school.
Really? So in your mind if you attend a private school you shouldn't support public schools? So much for freedom of choice that you keep banging on about. And then freedom of belief.

Part of being an empathetic, logical thinking individual is to realise that you need options and choices to make a society work. And heaven forbid you can still send kids to a private school and support the public system because there are people who cannot afford to go to private schools. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Just as you can have private insurance but still believe in a universal healthcare system because it helps those who cannot afford private insurance.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
Shapiro is an observant, kosher-keeping and Sabbath-keeping Jew. He shouldn’t be able to send his kids to a Jewish school?

IMO, no, unless he also supports programs that give the same choices to parents (of any faith or no faith) who don't have the money to send their children to similar schools. He will spend TWO MILLION DOLLARS sending his four kids to this school.

Really? So in your mind if you attend a private school you shouldn't support public schools?

If your kids go to a private school, you should be in favor of other kids having the same opportunity, even if their parents aren't multi-millionaires like Josh Shapiro.

People like Josh Shapiro tell parents in crime-ridden Philadelphia, just a few miles away, that their children must go to the local public school even if that school has bullets flying, books from the 1950s (if they even have books at all), and some of the worst failure rates in the country and the world. People like Josh Shapiro block any type of choice for these parents, who aren't millionaires like he is.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
Voucher programs are the biggest ripoff of the taxpayers there is. The vouchers are never enough for poor people to send their kids even to cheaper private schools but they sure do help all the Christian fundies sending their kids to schools that don’t even allow LGBTQ kids to attend.

And we should never, ever, be funding religious education directly or indirectly. That’s for the parents or religious communities fund. So taking MORE money from school systems like Philly’s to help the long-term plan of destroying public education is what? Fair? Hardly.

ETA: from what’s posted below it looks like Shapiro favors “more choices” for parents as well as increased funding for underprivileged schools. Harrisburg has starved the Philly schools for year so at least I support the second part.
 
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Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,984
IMO, no, unless he also supports programs that give the same choices to parents (of any faith or no faith) who don't have the money to send their children to similar schools. He will spend TWO MILLION DOLLARS sending his four kids to this school.



If your kids go to a private school, you should be in favor of other kids having the same opportunity, even if their parents aren't multi-millionaires like Josh Shapiro.

People like Josh Shapiro tell parents in crime-ridden Philadelphia, just a few miles away, that their children must go to the local public school even if that school has bullets flying, books from the 1950s (if they even have books at all), and some of the worst failure rates in the country and the world. People like Josh Shapiro block any type of choice for these parents, who aren't millionaires like he is.
Really? This trying to point out some as a hypocrite just because you read it that he should support every child going to private school just because his kids do.

Here is his education policy


Maybe some people know that not everyone has the same opportunities that they do but want to improve things for others so that eventually they will.

On the other hand, Mastriano is more concerned with indoctrination (couldn't find his actual education policy).

 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
When the Democrats are ready to support either state or national funding of schools, so that the education a student receives doesn't depend on their ZIP code (and property taxes), call me. I'd actually vote for any Democrat brave enough to advocate for that. This is a policy too liberal even for liberals. Until then, the Democrats are all wrong on schools.

I'm OK with proportional funding of religious schools - 7/8 of the school day or more has nothing to do with religion, so fund that portion. Many religious schools can educate pupils at a lower cost than public schools. We should invite more competition to bring down the costs.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,563
Voucher programs are the biggest ripoff of the taxpayers there is. The vouchers are never enough for poor people to send their kids even to cheaper private schools


I'm reminded of an analogy I heard from Jesse Jackson a long time ago.

If a mother has 1 pork chop and 3 children, she doesn't give the whole pork chop to one child. She gives them 3 equal pieces
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,891
When the Democrats are ready to support either state or national funding of schools, so that the education a student receives doesn't depend on their ZIP code (and property taxes), call me. I'd actually vote for any Democrat brave enough to advocate for that. This is a policy too liberal even for liberals. Until then, the Democrats are all wrong on schools.

I'm OK with proportional funding of religious schools - 7/8 of the school day or more has nothing to do with religion, so fund that portion. Many religious schools can educate pupils at a lower cost than public schools. We should invite more competition to bring down the costs.
Parents whose kids to go not-public schools still have to pay property taxes. (I know, not everybody owns a house, so don't bother arguing that one.) My dad used to vote "Yes" on school levies long after I was out of school.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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17,795
Yes, I understand that. My point is that by predominantly using property taxes to fund schools, students from rich areas (for example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who hails from wealthy Westchester, NY) receive far more public dollars devoted to their education than students from poor areas (for example, where AOC pretends to be from in Harlem).

Public school funding is one of the worst inequalities in the U.S. It's an injustice that the wealthy left ignores because it benefits them. They had a great scam going for awhile - with luxurious "public" schools (except only open to a small neighborhood) funded through property taxes, which were deductible federally, instead of tuition. At least Trump stopped most of the SALT deductions that allowed wealthy liberals to deduct their property taxes, while working class inner-city people sending their kids to Catholic school so they don't get shot had to pay full fare.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
When the Democrats are ready to support either state or national funding of schools, so that the education a student receives doesn't depend on their ZIP code (and property taxes), call me. I'd actually vote for any Democrat brave enough to advocate for that. This is a policy too liberal even for liberals. Until then, the Democrats are all wrong on schools.

I'm OK with proportional funding of religious schools - 7/8 of the school day or more has nothing to do with religion, so fund that portion. Many religious schools can educate pupils at a lower cost than public schools. We should invite more competition to bring down the costs.
You if all people know that money is fungible. You might want your dollars spent teaching kids that you and I are going to hell but I certainly don’t.

However I agree that school funding should be divorced from property taxes. No one in Israel chooses a place to live because of the school district (although of course the schools in richer areas are better because the kids start out with more advantages.) right now my fellow elitists are keeping the status quo so their kids can go to schools like my daughter did in Chevy Chase. It’s unjust and unfair.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
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63,156
Yes, I understand that. My point is that by predominantly using property taxes to fund schools, students from rich areas (for example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who hails from wealthy Westchester, NY) receive far more public dollars devoted to their education than students from poor areas (for example, where AOC pretends to be from in Harlem).
:confused:

Shouldn’t someone who lived in New York City know the difference between Manhattan and the Bronx? :shuffle:
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,563
However I agree that school funding should be divorced from property taxes
ITA. What is the solution? Maybe pool all property and other tax money and divide it equally among the public schools regardless of zip code.
BUT, that would be deemed Socialism
Children do not want to go to a dilapidated school with tired, underpaid teachers. That makes them hate school, and have no reason to pursue an education. They stay poor and desperate. I guess that's the goal
 

Louis

Private citizen
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17,795
Shouldn’t someone who lived in New York City know the difference between Manhattan and the Bronx? :shuffle:

I stand corrected that AOC pretends to be from the Bronx rather than Harlem.

ITA. What is the solution? Maybe pool all property and other tax money and divide it equally among the public schools regardless of zip code.

This, yes, and school choice not limited to one's neighborhood.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,984
ITA. What is the solution? Maybe pool all property and other tax money and divide it equally among the public schools regardless of zip code.
BUT, that would be deemed Socialism
Children do not want to go to a dilapidated school with tired, underpaid teachers. That makes them hate school, and have no reason to pursue an education. They stay poor and desperate. I guess that's the goal
For some of us in other countries that is how it normally works. Same goes for healthcare.

What you have written sounds like Republican goals don't they?
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,534
I stand corrected that AOC pretends to be from the Bronx rather than Harlem.



This, yes, and school choice not limited to one's neighborhood.
If all the schools were public, equitably funded and secular, I’d be fine with divorcing attendance from neighborhood. I traversed half of Philly for six years to get to school and survived.

Basically I’m in favor of anything that exposes kids to a diversity of backgrounds. The problem in Israel is that they fund four completely separate school systems and it siloes the whole society. If we want to end polarisation we have to stop ghettoising kids from kindergarten.

I’d also make it harder for religious schools to access public funding but this Supreme Court has of course gone the other way.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,891
This, yes, and school choice not limited to one's neighborhood.

How are they going to get there? Miamisburg has seven elementary schools. Should the kids from poorer areas all be bussed to one in a nicer neighborhood? They all go to the same primary, junior and senior high schools.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
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40,534

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,946
When the Democrats are ready to support either state or national funding of schools, so that the education a student receives doesn't depend on their ZIP code (and property taxes), call me. I'd actually vote for any Democrat brave enough to advocate for that. This is a policy too liberal even for liberals. Until then, the Democrats are all wrong on schools.
In CA, that Bluest of Blues states, the majority of public school funding comes from the state, not from property taxes.

Property taxes are really problematic to begin with. They shouldn't fund schools.
I agree with that and I wonder how this happened and why it's so widespread.
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
Messages
23,190
I completed paperwork to serve as a poll worker in AR yesterday. I couldn't find my voter registration card to look up the precinct so I went online to find it (I did find it later). I couldn't believe the fine print on voter registration. It doesn't matter if you register to vote if the county doesn't process your application. Oops, too bad. They forgot to send it. Your problem, not ours. It literally said that on the website. And, how many people know how to find the Secretary of State's website to find out if they are indeed registered?

Mine was fine. I'm white. But, I wonder exactly how many POC's voter registration conveniently never makes it to the county clerk's office? It can take up to 30 days to process the application which means no same day voter registration no matter if you have ID or not. I was absolutely appalled the more I read the page. And, there is no option to request a new card! You don't have to have the card if you are registered, but you're going to get the squinty eye if you don't. I'd printed my information with a screen shot just in case I couldn't find mine, but I went through the file cabinet where it should have been and eventually found it.
I dont remember my original voter registration process, because it was 47 years ago. I do know that I was able to change counties when we moved when changing my address on my driver's license. I know I don't have a voter registration card.

We've done mail in ballots since around Bush 2, when I was not notified of change of voter location, worked late, had traffic accident to get around and barely got to the new location before they closed doors.

This is what I found on how to register to vote in NE

 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
In CA, that Bluest of Blues states, the majority of public school funding comes from the state, not from property taxes.


I agree with that and I wonder how this happened and why it's so widespread.

California has Prop 13, which drastically limits how much the state can tax property. Most other states don't have anything like that. The various groups trying to overturn Prop 13 complain it's creating a crisis in educational funding, etc.

Why are schools funded through property tax? Because a long time ago, politicians figured out that homeowners are a captive base, and it's easy to tax them. The entire concept of annual property tax is crazy to me: you're taxing the same asset over and over, on theoretical value, often on debt (for anyone with a mortgage), and on unrealized gains. We don't treat anything else like this.

For whatever reason, people accept property taxes, and property tax increases, far more than they accept most taxes and tax increases. I guess it's a combination of they can't easily move, and some level of belief that it's OK because the value of their asset went up.

I tell Europeans and other who wonders how the US gets by on such low (compared to Europe) taxes that property tax makes up much of the difference, especially in blue states without consumer-friendly property tax controls like California's. (I don't think CA's law is perfect, but I'd much rather have it than not.)
 

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