US elections 2021-2022

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,258
It's kind of horrible and also completely unrealistic to expect people to work until 80.

When Social Security was created, average life expectancy for men was 58 and women 62, yet the retirement age was 65. By today’s life expectancy standards, 80 would be generous; we should probably raise the age to 85. Of course, I think most people would retire before then, but this would encourage them to boost their private savings to fund retirement.

The Silent Generation and Boomers have recast the purpose of Social Security (to their own benefit). Retirement with full benefits at the same ages - or with a two-year age difference - that people retired in 1930 is and never was realistic, given life expectancy.

Social Security should be a backstop only for the most vulnerable. And people should treat it for what it is - a tax, not an entitlement.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,128
When you have a country that has a healthcare system that sends people bankrupt when they get ill through no fault of their own and has the sh*ttiest minimum wages, it is not surprising that people have to work because they cannot afford to retire. It is never as simple and straightforward as what Louis would like to make out it is.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,214

Republicans have long feuded with the mainstream media. Now many are shutting them out​


----

Trump-backed Michigan attorney general candidate involved in voting-system breach, documents show​

 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,214
And some more on the story above about the guy from Michigan running for attorney general:

"Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel's office is seeking a special prosecutor to consider potential criminal charges against 9 individuals in a "conspiracy" to obtain and examine voting machines. Among the 9 is GOP AG candidate Matt DePerno."

"Following a months-long investigation, Nessel's office is seeking the appointment of a special prosecutor to consider an array of potential criminal charges against nine individuals, including Republican attorney general candidate Matt DePerno, state Rep. Daire Rendon, R-Lake City, and Barry County Sheriff Dar Leaf."

"The group's efforts involved convincing local clerks to hand over tabulators, taking the tabulators to hotels or rental properties in Oakland County, breaking into the machines, printing "fake ballots" and performing "tests" on the equipment, according to the letter."

"Because DePerno will likely face Nessel in the Nov. 8 general election, the Attorney General's office is asking a state agency, the Michigan Prosecuting Attorneys Coordinating Council, to appoint a special prosecutor to remove an inherent conflict of interest in making potential charging decisions.

'When this investigation began, there was not a conflict of interest,' wrote Danielle Hagaman-Clark, chief of the Attorney General's criminal trials and appeals division, in the petition for a special prosecutor. 'However, during the course of the investigation, facts were developed that DePerno was one of the prime instigators of the conspiracy.'

The tabulators were taken from local clerks for weeks at a time, and one machine was subject to 'extensive physical tampering,' according to the letter to Benson."
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,216
Abbott Nutrition, Mead Johnson Nutrition, Nestlé USA, Perringo

I really don't know what your point is.
The point is that a monopoly can include more Than one company. That is a cartel. You said all the big companies buying up the smaller ones contributed to this crisis. So the government can use anti trust law to break up this cartel
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
23,921
The point is that a monopoly can include more Than one company. That is a cartel. You said all the big companies buying up the smaller ones contributed to this crisis. So the government can use anti trust law to break up this cartel
No I said the major manufacturer of formula in the US are those 4. And the Abbott facility is the largest because they have the government contract which is about 50% of supply because of the WIC contract. It was the Abbott facility that had the contamination issue.

If you are not familiar with how WIC works-the participants or those eligible for WIC are restricted to certain products only. Which makes sense when it is shut down FOR SAFETY REASONS and then it follows suit that there will be a shortage because of the size of the facility and the WIC restrictions to certain brands.

The Abbott facility that produces the most formula was the one with contamination issues. Surely you wouldn't want a facility with a known containment to continue to produce/distribute formula that could potential lead to deaths of infants.

Smaller facilities produce more specialized formulas. Some of which are prescription only. Which has it's own issues, because healthcare insurance providers consider them food not prescribed medications.

Formula is not used just for infants. Many children and adults require formulas for tube feedings because of medical conditions.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,216
I guess the question is why was there no plan whatsoever to have forumula ready to replace the closed plants? Like why did they allow the shelves to go bare. They knew shutting down the plant would mean less formula but that was done months before the DPA was used to make more and imports were allowed. Why wasn’t it all connected? Like no one anywhere was saying “yes we need to shut down the plant but we better have imports lined up and get Biden to use DPA to make more.” Does the FDA head not speak to HHS secretary? and does HHS secretary not speak to Biden? All in February?
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
51,248
What I would say to a young person today putting into Social Security is not to listen to the fearmongers that say the system is doomed and won't be there for them. If Congress wants it to be there, it will be. And Congress does want it to be there because they are older than dirt and their main contributors are older than dirt too. Plus old people vote.

OTOH, I would say that it doesn't pay all the bills so you have to save up for retirement as well. And this is true for people retiring now so it's not "putting the burden on the younger generation." It's a burden we all share with the collapse of pensions. It's a burden that could be eased with universal basic income and universal healthcare, too.

Finally, expecting people to work into their 80s and thinking that is completely feasible is just dumb. I'm only 65 and in reasonably good health but I can feel myself slowing down and I'm on more medicines every year. I'm not going to work until I drop dead because some millennial has a chip on their shoulder and thinks everything that's wrong with the world is either because of liberals or because of old people. 🤷

I put in my time and now it's time to do things for my community without having to worry about a paycheck. I'm already volunteering for several organizations and doing things for free that other people get paid to do. But I could do more if I didn't have a day job. And these things I want to do need doing.

But, of course, since I disagree with Louis about both what the problem is and what the solution is, I am clearly "only in it for myself" :rolleyes:
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,258
What I would say to a young person today putting into Social Security is not to listen to the fearmongers that say the system is doomed and won't be there for them.

They don't need to listen to the fearmongers; they just need to log on to Social Security's web site and read the Trustees report. The cash reserves will be depleted by 2034, at which point SSI will only be able to pay 77% of benefits. The date keeps coming forward, and the percentage keeps getting lower. We're heading toward a crisis, and no one is doing anything. Perhaps we should listen to the fearmongers a bit more.

But, of course, since I disagree with Louis about both what the problem is and what the solution is, I am clearly "only in it for myself" :rolleyes:

You want to kick the can to a point where it won't affect you and leave future generations to deal with a death spiral of cuts and high taxes to pay for benefits that you've received in full. Correct me if any of this is wrong. We can't all keep fighting over the same pot of money, saying "it's mine!" when a good chunk of that money is spent and gone. Boomers should pay toward the shortfall, same as anyone else.

Instead of waiting for things to blow up in 2034, which is now just 12 short years away, why don't we take action now? We've squandered decades not addressing the problem "because old people vote." Well, we need the Ron Johnsons and others of the world to get non-old people to vote, and to start coming up with practical solutions that require everyone -- including old people -- to contribute to the shortfall. The enormous raise that SSI recipients will get, while ordinary workers are stuck in stagflation, may be a good political catalyst. The AOCs of the world would be good to shine the spotlight here, instead of on pronouns and other fringe issues.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,261
Seriously, where are you going to find a huge group of employers who want to cope with most of us 70-80 year olds? Most Dunkin Donut type, entry level jobs require you to stay on your feet for the whole shift. Even if you remain mentally ok, (and many don't), knees, feet, and hips wear out. So do your eyes. And your hearing. Not to mention non Alzheimer' memory issues. And if you have not been working since you were 65 or 66, you are not technically up to date in your field.

In tech fields, it is even difficult to be hired over 50.
 
Last edited:

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,261
Sad to say, sunsetting Social Security and Medicare is a Republican issue these days.

Of those running for reelection, Ron Johnson has spoken in favor of it. Of others, Rick Scott and Lindsey Graham are in favor of it
 

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,983

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,216
And we can't touch him on this admission because of Trump's pardon:

The pardon
And we can't touch him on this admission because of Trump's pardon:

Here is the text of the pardon.


Seems very specific. He can be indicted for collusion tomorrow
 

attyfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,978
Before Social Security, adults were expected to support their aged parents ... and could be criminally prosecuted for failing to do so. Do people really want to go back to that system? To risk jail if they don't help support their parents? To have their parents refuse to help them with college or other expenses because the parents need to save more for their own old age?
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,258
To have their parents refuse to help them with college or other expenses because the parents need to save more for their own old age?

Yes, this needs to happen for many reasons:
1) kids can get loans for college, but parents cannot get loans for retirement
2) people have lost all sense when it comes to university costs, and we need to try a multi-pronged approach to bring down the costs.

New idea: Maybe the Democrats who want to cap prescription drug prices should turn their attention to universities and cap university prices at $25k per year (which is also about double the next highest country). Oh wait, they can't alienate their voting base / indoctrination machine.... (Ron DeSantis's attempt to quantify this truth is one of many reasons why I am inclined to vote for him over anyone else. Truth to power!)
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,722
New idea: Maybe the Democrats who want to cap prescription drug prices should turn their attention to universities and cap university prices at $25k per year (which is also about double the next highest country). Oh wait, they can't alienate their voting base / indoctrination machine.... (Ron DeSantis's attempt to quantify this truth is one of many reasons why I am inclined to vote for him over anyone else. Truth to power!)
You think the people who run the multi-million dollar universities and make money off those high tuitions are the base of the party who wants more IRS accountability and financial transparency for multi-million dollar organizations and high-income earners and advocates for free colleges and student loan cancellation?
 
Last edited:

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,216
You think the people who run the multi-million dollar universities and make money off those high tuitions are the base of the party who wants more IRS accountability and financial transparency for multi-million dollar organizations and high-income earners and advocates for free colleges and student loan cancellation?
Are you saying college administrators aren’t 99% democrats?
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,261
Yup I know a recently retired Harvard administrator. Definitely Republican, but perhaps not Trumplican
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,128
Yes, this needs to happen for many reasons:
1) kids can get loans for college, but parents cannot get loans for retirement
2) people have lost all sense when it comes to university costs, and we need to try a multi-pronged approach to bring down the costs.

New idea: Maybe the Democrats who want to cap prescription drug prices should turn their attention to universities and cap university prices at $25k per year (which is also about double the next highest country). Oh wait, they can't alienate their voting base / indoctrination machine.... (Ron DeSantis's attempt to quantify this truth is one of many reasons why I am inclined to vote for him over anyone else. Truth to power!)
I thought Biden had spoken about student loan forgiveness before. Oh wait he has.


Maybe the loans should be interest free so that people don't just pay off the interest instead of the actual loans.
 
Last edited:

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,258
I thought Biden had spoken about student loan forgiveness before. Oh wait he has.

What a great economic model: have your buddies charge people exorbitant fees, which they pocket (perhaps with some kickbacks to your favorite causes), and then you go break the legs of their creditors so that they don't have to pay. Sounds like the mafia, not the US government.

No sane person would vote for loan forgiveness without first having some kind of a plan to bring down the costs. Otherwise, the vicious cycle of overcharging followed by bailouts is going to keep continuing. The Democrats don't care when it's their own base that's doing it.
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
23,921
It's questionable whether or not an investigation into the removal of classified documents would prevent Trump from being a candidate in 2024.

If that's the case, I could see that because of this raid he would be likely to win. I dont know if this raid was a good thing or bad thing for 2022 mid terms and 2024 presidential term.

A gifted article.

If Trump broke a law on the removal of official records, would he be barred from future office? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/...MP0nb4Qb2ViJ4urDJc7LJPGK9lvfX_1_ZoraqlCrZ3mrQ
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • rory
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information