US elections 2021-2022

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,424
I agree. Karen doesn't bleed into other kinds of threads that I can remember. If it has happened, then it's been rare. We duke it out here and then go on pop threads to watch the skating.
I will pipe up and mention that a couple of times when Karen has thumped me politically outside PI, it was because I made a political comment first. I don’t think she and the few other normal conservatives here are more intrusive than the rest of us with six years of Trump jokes.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
61,428
I will pipe up and mention that a couple of times when Karen has thumped me politically outside PI, it was because I made a political comment first. I don’t think she and the few other normal conservatives here are more intrusive than the rest of us with six years of Trump jokes.
I might have just said to Karen that I thought you were the most likely to bring PI into other forums. :lol:
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,345
Middle-class people will feel the government has broken its contract

Well, it has... There's no way to dance around this. It's about who is left holding the bag.

Phased in over decades, maybe.

Yeah, I think it has to be phased in over decades, but it could start right away. E.g., starting with people who have $200k+ in other income, and phasing that down to something lower.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,424
I might have just said to Karen that I thought you were the most likely to bring PI into other forums. :lol:
With friends like these…..

:p

I’ve been accused of putting politics where they don’t belong IRL too. Like, um, recently by my loving husband. So I guess I have to plead guilty. :shuffle:

And @Louis, I know we have to do something. But the minute you set an income cutoff, people will do things like use their assets to pay down their mortgages or reduce their yearly income by giving their kids money to hold in their own bank accounts. I don’t know how to get around the incentive to not play by new rules.
 

Spikefan

Rooting for that middle-aged team
Messages
3,069
I’m used to going to war with family over politics and coming together for other things, so PI disagreements are not a deal breaker. I probably would only have four family members I could be around if I blocked those I disagreed/fought with over every issue. I do have two aunts that I have severed ties but they are Qanon or white supremacists and that is all they focus on. If you cannot be pleasant in even a birthday phone conversation, where you called me and you know where I stand, I am done.
 
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once_upon

Enough
Messages
24,071

Obviously this article is ~30 years old, it has somr basic history on Social Security. It is important to understand that it was established as a response to the stock market crash, recession where older workers lost life savings and the changes in society from agrarian (farm base income, where you had something when economy stressed) to urban (money based income where you had nothing when economy stressed). Moving to urban setting, multiple generational household started to decline- especially when more mouths to feed and no farmland to grow food.

The urban jobs were gone as companies went under and you have a large population of older persons who couldn't support themselves on top of large numbers of younger people who rightly should have jobs.

Interestingly, some of the beginning had a bit of @Louis suggestions that only people who actually needed it got it and if they did not spend the allotted amount each month needed to return it. I assumed that started to change when Congress would hear "not fair" cries.

Along the years, Congress made changes to tge program. One of which allowed Congress to borrow as "needed".

In my church Finance experience this is one of the major no-nos taking/borrowing funds designated for one purpose to another - breaking fiduciary trusts. If you all want to point to a HUGE issue on funding SS - start here. If investing in securities or stock market is how retirement planning should be done by individuals - the government should have kept it's fiduciary responsibility for the monies it collects on behalf of it's citizens and the employers.

I am more than a little concerned with the rich members of Congress saying every person should have their own retirement planning, when so many right now can't even buy groceries without working 3 or more jobs. Having zero net no matter how little isn't sustainable. Expecting someone who is trying to buy groceries to put into a retirement account that saved SS tax is unrealistic and I can guarantee 💯 no business is going to voluntarily put money into a retirement account with their "saved" SS taxes.

My 2 cents worth.
 
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caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,262
Or we could just eliminate the cap on Social Security taxes. That would be easier politically and no one will cry for the uber-rich.
Wouldn’t the same thing of hiding income come into play. People wouldn’t be paid money but in other benefits
Helpful article on why CA is still counting votes (because we make it easier to vote):
The methods to count the votes haven’t kept up with more votes! One counting machine in some counties? That’s dumb!!!
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,208
The methods to count the votes haven’t kept up with more votes! One counting machine in some counties? That’s dumb!!!
That was not in the article, which says that checking the signatures of mail in ballots is what takes the most time, not running ballots through a machine.

Where did you read that? How much does it really limit the counting?
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,262
That was not in the article, which says that checking the signatures of mail in ballots is what takes the most time, not running ballots through a machine.

Where did you read that? How much does it really limit the counting?
far as when kern county voters can expect results, according to Bedard, that could be weeks.

“We only have one sorter machine, so we have to time everything so we can get everything through the sorter and do everything else that needs to be done before we can get the next batch through the sorter, so it can take a couple of weeks,” sai

 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
23,254
far as when kern county voters can expect results, according to Bedard, that could be weeks.

“We only have one sorter machine, so we have to time everything so we can get everything through the sorter and do everything else that needs to be done before we can get the next batch through the sorter, so it can take a couple of weeks,” sai

Jeez! Kern County is not a small county either, population-wise. It has over 900k residents!

I heard it on Fox News earlier today, but thought it was in reference to a county like Amador or Calaveras (41k and 46k inhabitants respectively).
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,208
far as when kern county voters can expect results, according to Bedard, that could be weeks.

“We only have one sorter machine, so we have to time everything so we can get everything through the sorter and do everything else that needs to be done before we can get the next batch through the sorter, so it can take a couple of weeks,” sai

Thanks for the article. It’s a little unclear what the limiting factor is - manpower or the machine. Clearly they are stretched though.

What a great problem to have - so many people voting that we need to invest more in our elections! As opposed to other states trying to limit voting.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,262
Jeez! Kern County is not a small county either, population-wise. It has over 900k residents!

I heard it on Fox News earlier today, but thought it was in reference to a county like Amador or Calaveras (41k and 46k inhabitants respectively).
It’s stupid! That’s the only word in English! STUPID
 

acraven

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
I's like to point out that the cost of Medicare B (think of it as roughly covering a lot of out-of-hospital expenses) is means-tested. The base cost for 2023 will be $170/month; that's for folks with income not exceeding $97,000. The cost can go as high as $560/month for folks with income over $500,000. At that income level, paying 3.3 times the base rate may not be too painful (I'll never know). But the monthly cost hits $527/month (3.1 times the base rate) once income exceeds $183,000. So your before-tax income doubles and your Medicare B cost more than triples. Probably fun for those with mortgages living in high-cost areas, or those with older homes reaching the point at which a lot of costly maintenance is required.

There are jurisdictions where property taxes are reduced for senior citizens and/or for those with low incomes, but the senior-citizen reduction doesn't apply if your income is above a certain level. Added to the vast differences in living costs around the country, I think that sort of thing makes it harder to come up with a reasonable formula for means-testing social security even if there's not a visceral negative reaction to the idea and people could agree it's the right thing to do.

I feel for the many older folks who are really terrified of not having enough money for medical expenses. Not everything is covered by Medicare, even if you pay for the optional Medicare B. Not being able to count on the social security payment you were promised, indexed to inflation, would be scary for so many folks who are already justifiably worried.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
51,563
LOL - still holding onto the belief that the extreme wings of either party are where most of the country is at? You go right ahead and wrap yourself in your own virtue, but the plain and simple reality is that neither the MAGAs nor the progressives are what most of the country prefers
No one said that progressives represent the majority of the country. This is actually something that has puzzled me about the extreme MAGA types I come into contact with. They claim things like the majority of the country supports Trump and doesn't support a woman's right to have an abortion when that is clearly not true. Maybe they are just trolling when they say these things but they seem very, very sincere.

I am a progressive and know a lot of progressives and we are all very aware of when our beliefs do and don't line up with the majority. Most of what we see as our job is to educate people so that this changes. And it must work because some of my extreme beliefs are now mainstream. These include being against the Vietnam War before it was popular and supporting marriage equality back when groups like the HRC were trying to talk people out of pushing for that.

I look forward to a future when even more of my beliefs become mainstream. ;)

Its a good thing they aren't speaking with one voice. They have an ideologically diverse coalition to hold together.
IME speaking with one voice is a sign of dysfunction. It's definitely part of the GOP's recent dysfunctional behavior. Disagreeing respectfully is important to coming to good decisions and not falling into groupthink.

The dealings Kushner had with the Saudis and UAE (which also helped produce the Abraham accords) stink to high heaven. If he were just another spoiled rich guy from NJ, none of that would have happened. So Hunter’s a spoiled kid from Delaware, but I doubt he broke the law. If he did, that should be punished.
I have similar views. Hunter traded on his father's name to get special favors. If he broke the law at all, it was probably doing something wrong with his taxes or something like that where it could have been inadvertent. The Clintons do things I consider unethical but they don't break the law because they aren't dumb.

Trump OTOH runs his life like he's a mob boss and the rules don't apply to him and so do a lot of the people around him. I am pretty sure Trump's broken many, many laws. Bigly.

I'm not sure there is anything that the Republican leadership can do that will help curb inflation at this point, beyond reining in some of the excessive government spending. So much of inflation is tied into gas prices at this moment.
Government spending isn't all bad. The attitude that is it is why the economy suffers when the GOP is running things and recovers when the Dems are in charge. In spite of seeing this play out over and over, people still insist that spending is bad. I tink it's because they think of the country the same way they think of their household budget.

But it depends on what you spend it on. I think we've all heard the phrase "you have to spend money to make money." Pumping money into the economy stimulates it. But just like with a business, you can't just spend on anything. It has to be things that improve the country, not just put more money in the bank for people who can afford to save.

Oh I’m wasting my figurative breath. Fortunately the one thing old people do is vote. And Congress knows that.
Which is one reason I have always believed that SS would be there when I retire. I've been hearing it's on its last legs for decades. It wouldn't even be in trouble at all if Congress would put back the money it stole from it

If anyone is still watching Boebert race or interested there is a 551 vote difference.
You know that, if she loses, she'll scream bloody murder about fraud and who knows what else. I want to see it so badly. :lol:
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
24,071
I have noticed that she didn't start screaming "Stop the votes!!" at the end of polling on election day. She's expected to win, and I think she's now a superfan of mail-in voting. For her. Only her.
I'm thinking they quit releasing for the night and will make us wait until tomorrow evening. Maybe for the "Big Board" and Steve's khakis?
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,345
I have noticed that she didn't start screaming "Stop the votes!!" at the end of polling on election day. She's expected to win, and I think she's now a superfan of mail-in voting. For her. Only her.

Republicans need to get behind mail voting and the type of legal or semi-legal ballot harvesting that the Dems have pursued. I understand and agree with the Republicans’ objections to these types of less secure voting. But at some point, if you can’t beat em, you gotta join em. I suspect the segment of Republican voters who intended to go to the polls on election day but ultimately didn’t is probably big enough to have swung the Senate.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,601
Republicans need to get behind mail voting and the type of legal or semi-legal ballot harvesting that the Dems have pursued. I understand and agree with the Republicans’ objections to these types of less secure voting. But at some point, if you can’t beat em, you gotta join em. I suspect the segment of Republican voters who intended to go to the polls on election day but ultimately didn’t is probably big enough to have swung the Senate.
Here in DeSantis land, Cuban-Americans have thrived on VBM / ballot-harvesting for decades.

Bush 43 padded his margins in 2004 this way
 

clairecloutier

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13,984
I'm not sure there is anything that the Republican leadership can do that will help curb inflation at this point, beyond reining in some of the excessive government spending. So much of inflation is tied into gas prices at this moment.

Finally we admit the truth. Republicans are not going to stop inflation.

Yet earlier, you suggested that we should change leadership because of inflation. :rolleyes:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/us-elections-2021-2022.108218/page-100#post-6329768
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
18,345
Here in DeSantis land, Cuban-Americans have thrived on VBM / ballot-harvesting for decades.

Yet another reason Florida is the best state with the best governor :cheer: :cheer2: :D

Finally we admit the truth. Republicans are not going to stop inflation.

Yet earlier, you suggested that we should change leadership because of inflation. :rolleyes:

Republicans don't have an undo button to magically go back in time and reverse the series of failures of Joe Biden, who didn't listen to his own economic team and pretty much singlehandedly created the mess we're in by pumping an excess of stimulus money into the economy, paying people to be unproductive, and failing to continue Trump's progress toward energy independence. Not to mention his unilateral, illegal, third-world-dictator-like abuse of power in cancelling student loan debts, which hopefully the courts will block, and which alone is reason the House must move to immediately impeach him. We'll all be paying the price of Bidenomics for quite some time.

I do believe there will be important checks and balances against future efforts, and the economy and the country are in a far better place with divided government than with Democratic control of all three branches.

It will take Republican control of all three branches of government (hopefully in 2024) to make a meaningful difference through tax cuts, drilling, deregulation, and cutting of the ridiculous entitlements that liberals hand out to their own voting base to buy their votes.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,984
Republicans don't have an undo button to magically go back and time and reverse the series of failures of Joe Biden, who didn't listen to his own economic team and pretty much singlehandedly created the mess we're in by pumping an excess of stimulus money into the economy, paying people to be unproductive, and failing to continue Trump's progress toward energy independence.

More insanity. You know as well as anyone (and should know better than most) that inflation is a worldwide problem right now with many different causes, and that the last stimulus bill (which came after larger stimulus bills under Trump) isn't the sole cause of this issue or even necessarily a main cause.

Yet another example of Republicans literally throwing around any trash that they think can get traction. Honestly it doesn't matter what it is, as long as it sounds good at the moment.

Maybe Katie Hobbs has the right answer when it comes to dealing with Republicans??

 

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