US elections 2021-2022

[Aussie Willy]

The Constitution requires that Federal elections take place on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, and state constitutions generally follow the Federal rule.

When the Constitution was adopted, the franchise was generally restricted to white men aged twenty-one and older who owned real property. Such men could usually Take a day or two off to go into town if necessary and vote. As the franchise expanded, the Constitution could have been amended to accommodate the schedules of the expanded electorate, but it never has been. Amending the U.S. Constitution is a very involved process.

I understand that and history behind it. But in this current day and age it is no longer relevant and an impediment to giving everyone their right to vote. So if they don't want to change the day, or put measures in place to help everyone to vote (eg mail in voting), then declare a public holiday so everyone has the chance to vote.

Hell we have a horse race in Australia on the first Tuesday in November which in Victoria is declared a public holiday and then many people around the country also seem to take off as a holiday.

 

[Susan1]

I understand that and history behind it. But in this current day and age it is no longer relevant and an impediment to giving everyone their right to vote. So if they don't want to change the day, or put measures in place to help everyone to vote (eg mail in voting), then declare a public holiday so everyone has the chance to vote.

Hell we have a horse race in Australia on the first Tuesday in November which in Victoria is declared a public holiday and then many people around the country also seem to take off as a holiday.

If it was a public holiday, there would be no school, and people would complain about not being able to get a babysitter. You'd have to close all stores and restaurants, so people working different shifts could go whenever they wanted to. There would need to be more voting locations, instead of fewer in certain states.

I would like the automatic absentee ballot sending. California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington, and DC already are sent absentee ballots automatically. Everybody would need more drop boxes (Ohio wouldn't add any last year), or postage paid envelopes, so they wouldn't have to drive far or use a stamp, or get it there too late (especially with the post office the way it is now).

But the US is screwed when it comes to voting rights.

 

[ballettmaus]

If it was a public holiday, there would be no school, and people would complain about not being able to get a babysitter.

Here in the area, many schools are/were closed anyway because they're used as polling places.

 

[Sparks]

I remember my mother taking me to vote with her

 

[Susan1]

Here in the area, many schools are/were closed anyway because they're used as polling places.

I remember my mother taking me to vote with her

So you are both arguing that it should be a national holiday? Everything should be closed - schools, stores, gas stations? And everyone should take all of their kids with them and stand in line for hours and go right back home? Makes sense. What about people who early voted or by absentee. Do they just sit at home. The post office would be closed, so mail-ins would have to get them in early.

 

[Sparks]

Are stores, gas stations, restaurants, etc closed on a National holiday? Of course not. A NH plus sensible actions like early voting, mail in voting, same-day registration would ensure every one who is eligible to vote can vote

 

[ballettmaus]

So you are both arguing that it should be a national holiday?

I can only speak for myself but while I don't think that schools being closed in certain areas is necessarily an argument for a holiday, I do think that it should be a holiday.

Everything should be closed - schools, stores, gas stations?

Name a single holiday in the US where everything is closed.

And everyone should take all of their kids with them and stand in line for hours and go right back home?

They are doing it anyway in areas where schools are closed.

Makes sense. What about people who early voted or by absentee. Do they just sit at home.

Yeah, I'm sure people who vote absentee will fight tooth and nails against having an extra day off.

The post office would be closed, so mail-ins would have to get them in early.

If you mail your ballot on Election Day, it's not going to arrive that same day anyway. If the ballot can arrive later, you should be mailing it at least two days before the deadline anyway to be sure.

The country functions normally on every other holiday. Why would an Election Day holiday be any different? Virginia survived its 2020 Election Day holiday just fine. Didn't countless businesses also give their employees the day or at least half a day off to go vote in 2020?

 

[Susan1]

Name a single holiday in the US where everything is closed.

Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter (except some restaurants). We're not talking about a day like Memorial Day where you can still go shopping or out to eat, right? If it was just businesses and government offices closed, that still doesn't help people in lower income, service type areas, with fewer polling places, who could be absentee voting, mail in voting or voting early as it is. Nobody works 24 hours a day. Would they really use their day off to stand in line to vote. And with so many states that now have fewer polling places.

Yeah, I'm sure people who vote absentee will fight tooth and nails against having an extra day off.

What makes you think that just because people don't have to go to work on a Tuesday, they will all use that time to vote. See above. Would this be a paid holiday? Would someone who works in a store, but not on Tuesdays get paid for not being there? Or would only the people who were scheduled to work that Tuesday get paid for being off? Would this be every year, when people might only have one uncontested school board member to vote for or just in presidential years?

Didn't countless businesses also give their employees the day or at least half a day off to go vote in 2020?

I would not know. But that's a good idea for individual businesses to decide to do that for their employees.

 

[Susan1]

Hell we have a horse race in Australia on the first Tuesday in November which in Victoria is declared a public holiday and then many people around the country also seem to take off as a holiday.

There's always silly talk about making the Monday after the Super Bowl a holiday because so many people call in "sick" after staying up late to watch the game. ha ha

 

[MsZem]

Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter (except some restaurants). We're not talking about a day like Memorial Day where you can still go shopping or out to eat, right?

You're not familiar with the great Jewish tradition of Chinese food on Christmas?Movie theaters are open on holidays - before CV, holiday weekends could mean big box office. Gas stations, contrary to your previous post, are open. Some stores are open, too.

If it was just businesses and government offices closed, that still doesn't help people in lower income, service type areas, with fewer polling places, who could be absentee voting, mail in voting or voting early as it is. Nobody works 24 hours a day. Would they really use their day off to stand in line to vote. And with so many states that now have fewer polling places.

From what I've seen, voting in the US is often difficult to access due to the locations of polling places and long lines, and people who don't have the time or ability to deal with this may have a hard time voting. You can deal with this by adding polling places, expanding early and mail-in voting, and making Election Day a holiday. Different solutions will work for different people.

Making Election Day a holiday also sends a message that voting is important and people should be given the time to do it.

 

[Susan1]

You're not familiar with the great Jewish tradition of Chinese food on Christmas?Movie theaters are open on holidays - before CV, holiday weekends could mean big box office. Gas stations, contrary to your previous post, are open. Some stores are open, too.


From what I've seen, voting in the US is often difficult to access due to the locations of polling places and long lines, and people who don't have the time or ability to deal with this may have a hard time voting. You can deal with this by adding polling places, expanding early and mail-in voting, and making Election Day a holiday. Different solutions will work for different people.

Making Election Day a holiday also sends a message that voting is important and people should be given the time to do it.

I said "some restaurants". We always used to eat out on Thanksgiving, at a buffet place because my dad did not like turkey. So what is the point of making Voting Day a national holiday if the same people who have to work on Tuesdays now would have to work that day. Yesterday was a "national holiday" here. Indigenous Peoples' Day (formerly Columbus Day). Just banks, government related things and the library were closed. That's why they call them bank holidays. All of the invented Monday holidays so people can have a three day weekend. (FYI - when I was in grade school, the Memorial Day holiday was always on May 30. We used to have a family reunion at my aunt's house in Aberdeen, Ohio. I remember one year, I went with my uncle to get my cousins out of school (Catholic) about 10 a.m. because they did not have that day off. They moved it to Monday in 1970 or something.) Anyway, yesterday, the people at Walgreen's and Kroger, etc. had to work. I've never gotten off for Columbus Day. I worked at a mortgage company affiliated with a bank. The bank was closed. We were not. How do you choose who does not have to work nationally on voting day.

Of course there should be more polling places and expanded early and mail-in voting. Blame the GOP. (Although, Ohio actually has almost the whole month of October to do that.) Making voting day a day off work for some is not going to make the others want to vote. Isn't the reason there was such a high turnout last year because more people did not have to go to a polling place on Election Day. (besides who we were trying to get rid of!)

 

[Vagabond]

Easter

Easter isn't a national holiday in the United States, and it never falls on a regular work day.

 

[once_upon]

Hospital staff, EMS staff, Police, Fire, Doctors, Airport staff, pilots, air traffic control, mass transit and many many more service industries must work regardless if it is a national holiday or one of the traditional holidays like Thsnksgiving.

Some hospitals are to provide you with 2-4 hours to vote (IME that is). However you still must vote at your location. You work an hour or more away, or have any wait time, or use unreliable mass transit, that is not enough.

So NO, there is not "everyone can have a day off" privilege

 

[Susan1]

Easter isn't a national holiday in the United States, and it never falls on a regular work day.

You said name a holiday when everything is closed. EXCEPT SOME RESTAURANTS

 

[Susan1]

Hospital staff, EMS staff, Police, Fire, Doctors, Airport staff, pilots, air traffic control, mass transit and many many more service industries must work regardless if it is a national holiday or one of the traditional holidays like Thsnksgiving.

Some hospitals are to provide you with 2-4 hours to vote (IME that is). However you still must vote at your location. You work an hour or more away, or have any wait time, or use unreliable mass transit, that is not enough.

So NO, there is not "everyone can have a day off" privilege

Yeah, the problem isn't getting everybody to be able to go vote ON election day. It's taking away people's other chances to vote - like the Saturday before or the Souls to the Polls thing after church, closing down polling places, not enough drop boxes, slow mail. Making that Tuesday a national holiday won't help. Enough people would make it a "4 day weekend" and be too busy or not come back from vacation early enough to go stand in line all day with all the other people who didn't have to work. Like I said - blame the GOP, not the day.

 

[Vagabond]

You said name a holiday when everything is closed. EXCEPT SOME RESTAURANTS

I said nothing of the sort.

 

[once_upon]

You said name a holiday when everything is closed. EXCEPT SOME RESTAURANT

You said there were holidays when everything is closed. I was just pointing out that there are people/jobs where someone is always working.

 

[MsZem]

You said name a holiday when everything is closed. EXCEPT SOME RESTAURANTS

Yom Kippur in Israel. Including the restaurants.

(except for Arab-majority localities)

There's nothing equivalent in the US that I'm aware of.

 

[Aussie Willy]

There's always silly talk about making the Monday after the Super Bowl a holiday because so many people call in "sick" after staying up late to watch the game. ha ha

In Victoria they do have a public holiday the day before for the AFL Grand Final which is on a Saturday because there is a big parade.

 

[Susan1]

I said nothing of the sort.

Sorry, it was:

Name a single holiday in the US where everything is closed.

There's so many of you arguing with me for some reason, I lost track.

You said there were holidays when everything is closed. I was just pointing out that there are people/jobs where someone is always working.

And I agreed with you. When I said it originally, I was thinking of the people who have the most trouble getting out to vote being restaurant, store, minimum wage, service, whatever workers who would be working on a "national holiday" and still couldn't get to their polling place, unless everything was closed and everybody did not have to work, like on Christmas (Easter, if they usually work on Sunday, whatever). YES, hospitals, emergency services are another big sector that would NOT benefit from it being a national holiday. I just didn't happen to mention it originally, but I AGREED WITH YOU when you did.

 

[Sparks]

There ARE people who would benefit from a NH.
Those who have to work on a NH could be able to vote early or mail in ballots.

 

[Dobre]

Technicality, but our mail-in ballots in Oregon are not "absentee" ballots. They are the only ballots.

 

[MacMadame]

You said name a holiday when everything is closed. EXCEPT SOME RESTAURANTS

And none of the three holidays you mention have everything closed except some restaurants. Thanksgiving... Many stores are open. Including stores like Walmart. Movie theaters are open. Convenience stores are open. Gas stations are open. And more. Christmas is the same except fewer department stores are open. Easter -- everything is open. It's not a National Holiday and it's on a Sunday.

So what is the point of making Voting Day a national holiday if the same people who have to work on Tuesdays now would have to work that day.

The point is to make voting easier for a lot of people. Just because it won't be 100% of the people doesn't mean it won't help a lot of people. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

It also supports a culture where voting is important.

 

[ballettmaus]

Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter (except some restaurants). We're not talking about a day like Memorial Day where you can still go shopping or out to eat, right?

I could if I wanted to (I usually don't) but as MacMadame pointed out, things other than restaurants are open on those days, including stores. They may have reduced hours but they are open.

Now, if we'd be talking Germany... Although, gas stations, restaurants and movie theaters would also be open. Other than that, however...

Nobody works 24 hours a day.

Tell that to the person who has an hour-long commute, gets off work at 6 and has to be in line by 7.

Would they really use their day off to stand in line to vote. And with so many states that now have fewer polling places.

I don't know what everyone would use their day off four but if they wanted to, they could go vote. There are plenty of states that don't have no-excuse absentee ballots and plenty of places where people stand in line for hours because they all have to go vote at the same time, more or less. And if people have days off and voted absentee, they can become volunteers. Sure, not everyone would do it but that doesn't mean that no one would. And if there are more volunteers, there can be more polling places.

What makes you think that just because people don't have to go to work on a Tuesday, they will all use that time to vote. See above. Would this be a paid holiday? Would someone who works in a store, but not on Tuesdays get paid for not being there? Or would only the people who were scheduled to work that Tuesday get paid for being off? Would this be every year, when people might only have one uncontested school board member to vote for or just in presidential years?

How does it usually work with national holidays? Reading your posts, you'd think this would be the first national holiday ever created.

 

[Susan1]

Reading your posts, you'd think this would be the first national holiday ever created.

This is getting ridiculous.

Let's see - created national holidays - Martin Luther King Day, President's Day, Columbus Day, Veteran's Day. All created Monday holidays that most people have to work on.

I'm not in charge of national holidays. It wouldn't make any any difference to me. It just seems like it would be a logistical and inequitable problem. As I keep saying "national holiday" does not mean everyone does not have to work. Indigenous People's Day on Monday was a national holiday. If that was this new Election Day "holiday", who didn't have to work so they could go vote? People who work at banks, schools, libraries, post offices, government offices. Those are not the people who are having trouble voting on Election Day. All offices would have to be closed, like on, say, Memorial Day. But restaurants and stores are still open that day. AND all hospitals, emergency services, etc. Excuse me if I am leaving out one area of the working world. If you made a national holiday so more people could get off work to vote, where do you draw the line? People already can take a vacation or sick day or be late to work or leave early to vote. Companies already can specifically give employees time off to vote. People already can drop in or mail-in vote before that Tuesday. But they don't. Just saying it's a national holiday (but "sorry you still have to work at the convenience store for 6 hours anyway, so someone else can take off, but you can take off tomorrow, but it's too late then") isn't going to make more people vote. In some states if they made it a national holiday, they would probably close some polling places because they figure people taking advantage of the holiday could stand in line longer anyway.

Tell that to the person who has an hour-long commute, gets off work at 6 and has to be in line by 7.

So those people would get to take a holiday, but people who vote at a church half a mile from their home would not?

things other than restaurants are open on those days, including stores. They may have reduced hours but they are open.

You are just reinforcing my point. Not everybody gets to be off work on a "national holiday". Before Black Friday became "shop for 24 hours a day", we stopped at Meijer on the way home from eating. If that was Election Day, those people would not have been off to vote. You are back to making it easier for some people to vote, but not everybody.

 

[Susan1]

There ARE people who would benefit from a NH.
Those who have to work on a NH could be able to vote early or mail in ballots.

But they already can do that.

 

[Sparks]

Not everywhere

 

[Susan1]

Not everywhere

Well, then that is what should be changed nationally. Give everyone the same chance to vote other than certain hours on Election Day.

 

[Aussie Willy]

The point is to make voting easier for a lot of people. Just because it won't be 100% of the people doesn't mean it won't help a lot of people. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

It also supports a culture where voting is important.

I think this is probably the most important point raised so far.

 

[MacMadame]

Well, then that is what should be changed nationally. Give everyone the same chance to vote other than certain hours on Election Day.

Except elections are run by the States so there will never be uniformity.

Also, no one change will work for everyone. So I support having as many different ways of making voting easier.

I don't know why you are so dead-set against having Election Day be a national holiday. Since you don't work and since some things will remain open, it's not going to impact you much if at all.