Unpopular Opinions

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
8,228
Here's another one: I think Gordeeva and Grinkov were ridiculously held up at times. They had beautiful basic skating skills and unison, but there were times they won when I wonder if the judges even watched their programs. The 1990 WC was like that.
I’ll even go so far as to say this adoration of G&G hurt the chances of B&S winning 2001 Worlds as there was a lot of talk at the time saying if B&S won, they would tie the record of G&G and were they worthy of that. :rolleyes:
 

nuge

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Remember when one of the Nicky Slater pointed out that G/P got dangerously close to exiting out of a tango hold and almost went into a Killian for their masterpiece Tango OD? I don’t think he was right, but I’d like the ISU technical committee to go back to basics and introduce one or even multiple prescribed holds for the technical/rhythm dance and let the FD run free but still evaluate difficulty of holds and variety of them and seamless transitions in and out of them.
Yes I do remember that. I remember a lot of Nicky quotes :rofl:
There was another Russian dance team I can't quite remember the names. We always called the man the truck driver as he was big built. Anyway I remember when they were doing a dance whoever was commentating said whenever they were in closed holds they weren't very good and messy. They were a little on the messy side. Will go and check them out. :scream:

Was it Kulikova/Novikov?
 
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Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,557
I saw 0 chemistry in Virtue and Moir. I see their greatness as individual skaters but they don't match in terms of their chemistry.
I respected the basic skating skills of V/M but I never enjoyed their programs after their beautiful FD skated to Mahler.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,352
Canada (especially) and the US are as guilty of national bias as any Russian / former soviet federation.
One day, we will all admit what our decades-long observations of every major federation's fanbases have taught us.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Well-Known Member
Messages
917
1. Eteri Tutberidze is an amazing coach. I'd send my kid to her.
2. I don't mind, and in fact would prefer, that a high school age skater wins Worlds and Olympics and moves on with her life whether college, pro skating, whatever. I'd rather see 'state of the art' technical skating win by someone younger than seeing 25 y/o's struggling to land a lutz or a 3/3. "Longevity" doesn't count much for me if you don't do basic competitive elements.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,937
Quite some of the opinions in this thread are not unpopular at all but this seems to be the fate of every "unpopular opinions" thread. :p



I think so too. I consider this & their Yamagata FD in 2018-19 their two weakest senior FDs. I find it funny that people on figure skating Twitter (who don't like P/C's programs often) seem to like the latter a lot and consider it their best work, ha.
I love that Yamagata FD. Still rewatching.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,152
2. I don't mind, and in fact would prefer, that a high school age skater wins Worlds and Olympics and moves on with her life whether college, pro skating, whatever. I'd rather see 'state of the art' technical skating win by someone younger than seeing 25 y/o's struggling to land a lutz or a 3/3. "Longevity" doesn't count much for me if you don't do basic competitive elements.
Forced retirement for all skaters at age 17.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Well-Known Member
Messages
917
Forced retirement for all skaters at age 17.
That's not my take on it, but you do you, SG. I like that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva is still in the game, doing her thing and maintaining competitive skills, for instance. If someone is competitive, great. If they are just old, and that's their strong/selling point, well, no.
 
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olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,092
IDK if this is a minority opinion or not, but code-whoring by Eteri & Co. has been taken to a whole new level (but I acknowledge it has been practiced on a lower level continuously) and has sacrificed basic levels of good SS in women's competitions, making lower-ranked skaters more pleasant to watch than actual medalists - 2021 Worlds.

I never got V/M and their skating did nothing for me.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
Messages
32,006
Here's an up-to-the-minute unpopular opinion: I liked P/K's "Sing Sing Sing" better than I like their "Be Italian." They're not a sexy pair -- hugely talented yes, adorable yes, sexy no -- and that opening voiceover, for instance, does less than nothing for them. Last year's program just asked them to be fun and playful, and that they could do. Sexy, not so much.

Plus I just like "Sing Sing Sing" better as a song. Take it from an Italian woman, one thing the world did not need is a song teaching Italian men how to grope. :lol:

That said, they did have a brilliant skate with this one, and if it brings them success this season, I certainly won't complain!

(For those who missed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srArNTGmS1c)
 

screech

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,511
That's not my take on it, but you do you, SG. I like that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva is still in the game, doing her thing and maintaining competitive skills, for instance. If someone is competitive, great. If they are just old, and that's their strong/selling point, well, no.
I agree. There's a difference between someone like Elizaveta who's 'ancient' at 24 but not only maintains her previous skills, but has also been working on including new ones and is right there in the mix; compared to someone like Gabby Daleman, who yes, has had a LOT of unfortunate incidents in the last 3.5 years, but has not increased her tech in competition since even before her Worlds medal, and will never be on the World podium again (if she even qualifies).

IDK if this is a minority opinion or not, but code-whoring by Eteri & Co. has been taken to a whole new level (but I acknowledge it has been practiced on a lower level continuously) and has sacrificed basic levels of good SS in women's competitions, making lower-ranked skaters more pleasant to watch than actual medalists - 2021 Worlds.
My biggest issue with Eteri's group is that while their technical content is great, they get overly inflated PCS. I mean, Valieva is decent in that regard, but should NOT be getting averages of over 9 for most of her components.
And the pre-rotating done by so many. I like Scherbakova a lot but she does not do legitimate quads.

Unpopular opinion: Hanyu's PCS are extremely inflated as well. A few years ago I saw him and Chan compete at the same competition. Both were not at their best, but Chan's blatant superiority in his actual skating was not rewarded compared to Hanyu who came off as just average in that regard when seeing him live. It made it easy for me to see why in his prime, Patrick still scored so well in PCS even if skating poorly - his non-jump skating was just THAT good. It really annoyed me to see Hanyu getting the same PCS, especially in SS.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,557
I liked the Albinone cover by Dimash used by Tarasova Morozov for their LP last year. I preferred it to the Lara Fabian version.
 
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ЭPiKUilyam

Well-Known Member
Messages
917
IDK if this is a minority opinion or not, but code-whoring by Eteri & Co. has been taken to a whole new level (but I acknowledge it has been practiced on a lower level continuously) and has sacrificed basic levels of good SS in women's competitions, making lower-ranked skaters more pleasant to watch than actual medalists - 2021 Worlds.
I suppose I've gotten used to the "code-whoring" if it means gaining enough points to win. To be honest, an intelligent person would be a "code-whore". You figure out how to maximize your points and you go out there and do it. I remember Jeffrey Buttle was quite the code-whore back in the day. He knew numerically it was more beneficial to go for a 4toe that he never intended to land but just rotate. That's taking it to another level, afaic.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
21,226
I hate the term "code-whore". This is a SPORT. The whole point of the SPORT is to WIN. To WIN you need to get the MOST POINTS. So if you happen to come up with a strategy for getting the most points within the rules? GOOD FOR YOU.

I also think the above is why so many people complain about Jason winning without quads. They don't like that he's "code-whoring" his way to wins without the quad and don't want to accept that building points on massive GOE, spins, steps, and pure SS is a valid strategy. "code-whoring" only seems to be acceptable when it involves changing loading, arm variations, combinations, quads etc.

I also didn't hate 0-8 backloading. I thought it was a wild feat of athleticism and loved it, tbh.

Last of all: I think a lot of people's dislike of Trusova chasing all the quads is rooted in sexism. You don't see anywhere near that critism of Chen or Hanyu. But girls aren't "supposed" to be so openly ambitious.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,148
I hate the term "code-whore". This is a SPORT. The whole point of the SPORT is to WIN. To WIN you need to get the MOST POINTS. So if you happen to come up with a strategy for getting the most points within the rules? GOOD FOR YOU.

I also think the above is why so many people complain about Jason winning without quads. They don't like that he's "code-whoring" his way to wins without the quad and don't want to accept that building points on massive GOE, spins, steps, and pure SS is a valid strategy. "code-whoring" only seems to be acceptable when it involves changing loading, arm variations, combinations, quads etc.

I also didn't hate 0-8 backloading. I thought it was a wild feat of athleticism and loved it, tbh.

Last of all: I think a lot of people's dislike of Trusova chasing all the quads is rooted in sexism. You don't see anywhere near that critism of Chen or Hanyu. But girls aren't "supposed" to be so openly ambitious.
I think it’s ok for girls to be ambitious. That glint in Kosternaia’s eye in 2019 was not “oh I’ll be happy if I just skate well.”

What skater girls are not supposed to be is blatant jocks for whom emoting or making pretty pictures on ice is clearly secondary to landing the hardest jumps. That’s the taboo Trusova breaks. To heavy metal yet.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,557
I suppose I've gotten used to the "code-whoring" if it means gaining enough points to win. To be honest, an intelligent person would be a "code-whore". You figure out how to maximize your points and you go out there and do it. I remember Jeffrey Buttle was quite the code-whore back in the day. He knew numerically it was more beneficial to go for a 4toe that he never intended to land but just rotate. That's taking it to another level, afaic.
Another example of "code whoring" was Evan Lysacek in 2010. If it was ok for Frank Caroll it should be ok for Eteri Tutberidze.

The goal is always to win, using the rules.
 
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Immortelle

Rejected by Krasnopolski
Messages
1,607
I hate watching boring unartistic and uncoordinated men too. I yawned when people made the same arguments about Stoijko and I didn’t see what was so Kung Fu about his Bruce Lee program.
I completely agree. I skip a lot of men’s skating because unless they are landing their jumps I find it boring to watch one after another pop, touch down or fall - unless they are giving their all artistically. So many of them don’t give a rats about the PCS or the choreography.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,152
Another example of "code whoring" was Evan Lysacek in 2010. If it was ok for Frank Caroll it should be ok for Eteri Tutberidze.

The goal is always to win, using the rules.
Who said it was okay for Frank Carroll? Lysacek's programs weren't to the same level that we see today when it comes to squeezing every last point out even when it distracts from the overall quality of the program, performance, and skating, but the scoring system was different back then, and there was no school of singles skating that was training young skaters to the level of technical difficulty we see from Eteri. The better example of that type of thing was the skate blade to head era of ice dance that led every female ice dancer to perform the same finishing position on every lift because it was a simple way to get a level. I think that this type of thing becomes frustrating because while it gives a bonus to the element in one way it detracts from the overall program in another way, but the scoring never reflects this.
 

mpal2

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,807
Last of all: I think a lot of people's dislike of Trusova chasing all the quads is rooted in sexism. You don't see anywhere near that critism of Chen or Hanyu. But girls aren't "supposed" to be so openly ambitious.

How quickly people forget about the Timothy Goebbel. Nice guy but not all that interesting to watch when all he had was quads. I also remember Hanyu getting a lot of crap for chasing jumps his last outing against Chen.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,480
How quickly people forget about the Timothy Goebbel. Nice guy but not all that interesting to watch when all he had was quads. I also remember Hanyu getting a lot of crap for chasing jumps his last outing against Chen.
And earlier in Chen's career some people thought his programs were nothing but jumps and it was boring.

For as long as I can remember, there have been skaters who were/are seen as jumpers with empty programs, and ones considered artists without enough technical difficulty. The only new thing is that there are now women who are assigned to the first category on account of doing quads.
 

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