Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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72,701
@natsulian mentioned in this thread back on February 23, 2022 that Phoebe Stubblefield had landed a 3A in practice (video was shared by Tom Z. via his Instagram). Almost 6 months later, Phoebe was credited with landing 3A cleanly -- it looked effortless in real time! -- to open her Junior FS at the Cup of Colorado club competition this past weekend, so I made a clip to celebrate her accomplishment: https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1556318757345284097
Phoebe is 13, in USFS' International Selection Pool as of this season, and coached by Viktor Pfeifer in Colorado Springs. This is her first season at the Junior level and, like all young and developing skaters, she is working to improve her consistency in competition (scored 133 in placing 13th of 17 in the U.S. Junior Team Cup in Milwaukee in early July and won this weekend's Cup of Colorado with a total score of 150).
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
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1,022
Looks like the women have now mastered the modern 3A technique - turn as much as possible on the ice before going up, then have a small cheat on the landing (but enough to be considered rotated). Many more 3As to be seen in the women's field, I guess.
 
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layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
465
Maybe Gracie is doing this to keep her technique going. She's coaching and giving workshops. It must be nice for her students to see a coach actually do a 3lz.
This seems unlikely. Why go to the trouble of getting a new LP, if coaching will be her main focus? That long program and the new costume look expensive.

I think it's more likely that Gracie can see her own potential (just as we all can see it). From what I saw this weekend, she looks to be 2 triple jumps away from her third US title.
 

ice coverage

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
@natsulian mentioned in this thread back on February 23, 2022 that Phoebe Stubblefield had landed a 3A in practice (video was shared by Tom Z. via his Instagram). Almost 6 months later, Phoebe was credited with landing 3A cleanly -- it looked effortless in real time! -- to open her Junior FS at the Cup of Colorado club competition this past weekend, so I made a clip to celebrate her accomplishment: https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1556318757345284097
Phoebe is 13, in USFS' International Selection Pool as of this season, and coached by Viktor Pfeifer in Colorado Springs. ...

Thank you for making the clip of Phoebe at Cup of Colorado! 🥳
 
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carriecmu0503

Well-Known Member
Messages
490
This seems unlikely. Why go to the trouble of getting a new LP, if coaching will be her main focus? That long program and the new costume look expensive.

I think it's more likely that Gracie can see her own potential (just as we all can see it). From what I saw this weekend, she looks to be 2 triple jumps away from her third US title.
The costume was not new. It was her 2014-2015 short program dress. The blue version of the red dress she wore for the SP at the 2014 Olympics.

 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
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5,389
The costume was not new. It was her 2014-2015 short program dress. The blue version of the red dress she wore for the SP at the 2014 Olympics.

I recognized it immediately. She could recycle any of her previous costumes as they were all beautiful.
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
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5,389
I'd say Gracie knows this and maybe next season are her best chances to reach the US podium and thence worlds again. I wouldn't assume she wants to skate at Milan, but worlds again, yes.

I've never connected to her skating, but I'd really like her to achieve her goals.
I think that one of Gracie's biggest problems is her arms which are not particularly fluid which reduces their appeal. She is also not particularly flexible which also feeds into the same issue.
 

sk9tingfan

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5,389
Re-watched the FP's for both Isabeau and Lindsay and I get stressed over Isabeau's jumping technique and the degree to which her back will hold up over time. I think that had Lindsay not opened up on one of her combos, she would have beaten Isabeau in the FP. In her own way, Lindsay is exquisite. I also am starting to wonder in the long run, who will eclipse the other
 

natsulian

Well-Known Member
Messages
600
A look at the top 8 junior women:

1. Soho Lee
Undoubtedly the strongest junior woman in the field with great consistency, clean and tidy jumps, and beautiful presentation. Soho usually scores within the 180-190 range and if she can throw down a clean short program, has the ability to score in the upper 190s to low 200s. Soho has a 3Lz3T in both programs.

2. Elyce Lin-Gracey
Probably one of the most gifted artistic skaters, Elcye reminds me a lot of Karen Chen but with sound jumping technique and mental fortitude. Elyce has been slowly increasing her technical prowess, adding both a 3Lz3T and 3T3T this year. Elyce usually scores 170-180 but with two clean skates, she can probably climb up to 190.

3. Clare Seo
A strong skater with beautiful artistry marred by technical issues akin to Karen Chen. Clare seemed to have been improving the rotation of her jumps earlier this season but ever since Milwaukee, has not been putting together clean skates. However, when she is on, Clare has the ability to captivate the audience. Clare usually scores in the 180s but with two clean skates, she can probably score in the 190s. Clare has a 3Lz3T in both programs.

4. Josephine Lee
Josephine has so much raw, untapped technical and artistic capabilities. This year, she's been markedly improving her consistency and upping her technical ante: she added a 3F3T in both programs. Josephine usually scores in the 160-170s but with clean skates, she can score in the 180s. Once Josephine puts it all together, she will be a tour de force.

5. Logan Higase-Chen
Logan is consistent and has been improving steadily throughout the summer. Logan has a 3T3T in both programs alongside five other sound triples. Logan usually scores in the 160-170s but her scoring range will surely increase over time. She reminds me of young Bradie Tennell: untapped artistic potential with great consistency.

6. Sarah Everhardt
Sarah has huge jumps and has been working on improving her consistency and upping her technical ante. Sarah usually scores in the 150-160s and has a 3T3T under her belt.

7. Mia Kalin
Mia has a 4T, 3Lz3T, and a 3F1Eu3S under her belt but has trouble putting it all together. Although she's been improving in the artistic department and consistency, she has yet to put together two clean skates. When she does, Mia can score monstrously on the merit of her technical prowess alone. Once Mia improves her consistency, jumps, and artistry, she will be a big threat.

8. Hannah Herrera
Hannah has amazing skating skills and speed across the ice but suffers from a lack of consistency which she's been working on this summer. Hannah has big triple jumps, including a 3Lz3T and 3F1Eu3S. Hopefully Hannah receives Junior Grand Prix assignment(s) and shows up and shows out.

As can be seen, the top eight (and more) all have sound triple combinations and usually score in the 150-170s with many poised to score in the 180-190s. Even those not in the top 10 have triple-triple combinations (Elsa Cheng, Sonia Baram, etc.) but lack the consistency and/or artistry. Additionally, with the recent increase in the age limit, hopefully each one of them continues to improve artistically and technically before hitting the senior stage. Furthermore, there are a bunch of novice women like Athena Huang (3T3T and 3T1Eu3S), Cleo Park (3T3T), and Keira Hilbelink (3T3T) who have been scoring in the 140-150s at the novice level and will be gunning for the JGP spots next year. Furthermore, there are a few younger junior women like Mia Barghout (3T3T), Sherry Zhang, Katie Krafchik (3S3T, 3F3T, and 3Lz3T), and Phoebe Stubblefield (3A, 3Lz3T, and 3F1Eu3S) who, with time, will hopefully become consistent, healthy, and strong skaters as well. There are also a few junior women like Katie Shen who are out due to injury but will hopefully return.

I foresee a huge development in the novice to junior fields in the coming years, probably becoming even more competitive and exciting than the senior field since many of these young women will not be eligible until after 2026 for the senior level.
 

Carolla5501

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6,805
Honestly, I don’t want to see Gracie again. I know I’m alone but she looks like she’s miserable and I feel like the only reason she’s doing this is because she doesn’t think she has any other options. Maybe I’m wrong I hope I am but I won’t be watching her because it feels like I’m watching someone being tortured and it’s hard to enjoy that
 

leilaofpaper

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Messages
222
Honestly, I don’t want to see Gracie again. I know I’m alone but she looks like she’s miserable and I feel like the only reason she’s doing this is because she doesn’t think she has any other options. Maybe I’m wrong I hope I am but I won’t be watching her because it feels like I’m watching someone being tortured and it’s hard to enjoy that
Are there particular moments where you think she looks miserable? I saw her SP at Nationals, she looked anything but miserable.
 

Evgeniafan

Well-Known Member
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142
Honestly, I don’t want to see Gracie again. I know I’m alone but she looks like she’s miserable and I feel like the only reason she’s doing this is because she doesn’t think she has any other options. Maybe I’m wrong I hope I am but I won’t be watching her because it feels like I’m watching someone being tortured and it’s hard to enjoy that
I feel exactly the same way, so you are not alone.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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72,701
Cranberry Cup International entries were published today and posted in the competition thread in Kiss & Cry. For those without access, I've tweeted event info (livestreaming is not free this year): https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1556764815569436676

* = international debut

Senior:
Amber Glenn (season debut)
Hanna Harrell
Finley Hawk
*Sonja Hilmer :)
*Hannah Lofton
Audrey Shin (season debut)
*Wren Warne-Jacobsen

Junior:
Hannah Herrera
*Logan Higase-Chen
*Phoebe Stubblefield
 

Allskate

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Messages
11,693
Honestly, I don’t want to see Gracie again. I know I’m alone but she looks like she’s miserable and I feel like the only reason she’s doing this is because she doesn’t think she has any other options. Maybe I’m wrong I hope I am but I won’t be watching her because it feels like I’m watching someone being tortured and it’s hard to enjoy that
I feel the opposite. She used to look miserable. More recently, she has looked happier. If she's finding joy in training and performing, despite scoring lower that she used to, then I think that's great.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
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17,919
Honestly, I don’t want to see Gracie again. I know I’m alone but she looks like she’s miserable and I feel like the only reason she’s doing this is because she doesn’t think she has any other options. Maybe I’m wrong I hope I am but I won’t be watching her because it feels like I’m watching someone being tortured and it’s hard to enjoy that

She looked tight but I’m not sure it’s the same as being miserable. Just concentrating hard to get the job done. All smiles after.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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14,163
I feel like Gracie is old enough and has experienced enough to know that if she was truly miserable she could walk away at any point. And she has been doing coaching and camps, so she certainly has other options open to her.
 

Bouffantrex

Well-Known Member
Messages
210
Levito is a talent, but the free program music is beneath her abilities. Delete the vocals, please. Jump technique is worrisome.

Thorngren continues to make measurable, considerable progress in all aspects of her skating with each passing season. Kudos to her and her team.
 

Willin

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2,408
Levito doing -3Lo combos is smart. Not just score-wise, but also because that 3Lo doesn't look nearly as hard on her back as the 3T did. But her toe jump technique is still atrocious and needs fixing while Lindsay seems solid. I'm a lot more optimistic about Lindsay for the technique alone... But also USFS has a lot of very good Junior/Novice ladies coming up the ranks with good technique that Isabeau needs to watch out for as well. Their lower level bonuses are really starting to pay off.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
27,219
For Gracie’s whole career, people have been setting overly high expectations about what she could achieve and putting pressure on her. Ever since her comeback, people have been speculating about her rationale, trying to decide her intentions and motivations based on her face instead of her words, and thinking they know what’s best for her.

Maybe just let her skate. I don’t think she needs strangers on the internet at this point.
 

natsulian

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Messages
600
Levito doing -3Lo combos is smart. Not just score-wise, but also because that 3Lo doesn't look nearly as hard on her back as the 3T did. But her toe jump technique is still atrocious and needs fixing while Lindsay seems solid. I'm a lot more optimistic about Lindsay for the technique alone... But also USFS has a lot of very good Junior/Novice ladies coming up the ranks with good technique that Isabeau needs to watch out for as well. Their lower level bonuses are really starting to pay off.
I agree. US Figure Skating implementing bonuses for jumps and programs to support the development of younger athletes is paying off handsomely. Years ago, there were probably one or two junior women capable of scoring 150+ and consistently landing triple-triple combinations. Now, a triple-triple is not enough to guarantee you a Junior Grand Prix spot. You need to be a well rounded and consistent skater. The most positive development I’m seeing is the lack of under-rotations from the junior women. In a few seasons, I foresee the junior field eclipsing the senior field in terms of technical proficiency.
 

Allskate

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11,693
I know. I didnt like this music on Schizas last season and I dont like it now.

This music seems very junior-ish to me.
I don't think the music is juniorish, but I don't think it's great. At this point, she (or the choreo?) doesn't seem to relate to the music much, but hopefully that will change in the coming months.

I don't care much for her short program music either. It's kind of plodding.

But, jumps aside, I really do think that she's a beautiful skater and generally love watching her skate.
 

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