Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,487
This weekend alone, three US woman put up better scores in internationals than Gracie put up in a national event. The margin was bigger than one more triple, despite the stricter international judging.

I wouldn't be opposed to Gracie getting another international, but remember: she had a shot at her minimums. But Gracie didn't skate well enough. And then she didn't skate well enough at her earlier championship series event to merit another assignment.

Gracie herself, however, seemed very pleased with her score yesterday. She has her own goals that she seems to be hitting, regardless of whether they'll lead her to the Olys. From an outsider's point of view, she's seems happy with where she's at overall (even if she wasn't super thrilled with yesterday's skate). And that's what I want for her.
And that isn't even counting two other women who have scored 200+ internationally this fall for the US. I just don't see Gracie beating Alysa, Amber, Karen, Mariah, and Lindsay - and that's not counting Bradie who hasn't skated yet.
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
390
This weekend alone, three US woman put up better scores in internationals than Gracie put up in a national event. The margin was bigger than one more triple, despite the stricter international judging.

I wouldn't be opposed to Gracie getting another international, but remember: she had a shot at her minimums. But Gracie didn't skate well enough. And then she didn't skate well enough at her earlier championship series event to merit another assignment.

Gracie herself, however, seemed very pleased with her score yesterday. She has her own goals that she seems to be hitting, regardless of whether they'll lead her to the Olys. From an outsider's point of view, she's seems happy with where she's at overall (even if she wasn't super thrilled with yesterday's skate). And that's what I want for her.
Long:
The scores will come. I like Gracie's (step by step) approach to this season.

If she is capable of a clean short and a long with 3 clean triples now, then I think she can do a clean short and 4 -6 clean triples in her long (in two months) at Nationals. I am sure she also knows how close she is as well. She seems hungry and I think she can do it.

I am amazed by her. I love the spring and height that she gets in her jumps and the distance that she covers across the ice as she jumps. She rotates her jumps completely in the air. I am also in awe of the power (and speed) that she gets just with her basic stroking, how much ice she covers with simple pushes and it's clear to me that she has been working on her spins. They look fast and centered and she hits beautiful positions. To my eye she has not lost anything technically. I would say her chances (this season) are good.
 
Last edited:

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,487
I would say her chances (this season) are good.
No, her chances really aren't that good this season. She's going to need a lot more than just 4-6 clean triples in the FS to beat Alysa. And the same can probably be said of what she will need to beat even a poor skate from Karen or Mariah.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
17,129
I think the final group at Nationals would be a huge achievement for Gracie, so that means top six in the SP. The tendency to pop when the takeoff goes wrong is going to keep her off the podium, though. This system rewards people who rotate and fall over people who pop.

So I don't see her being top three, or even top 4 :), but I do see her being top six if she has the absolute best two skates she is capable of at Nashville. That means she should be in consideration for the 4CC team. However she doesn't have the short program minimum because she really blew her short program at Cranberry.

So, again, I'd just like to say there should really be a North American Senior B in mid December. I am volun-telling Milwaukee to host it, LOL. Does Gail Tanger read this board? :)

I have been following the championship series pretty closely, by my standards. I am so impressed with the skaters that have made it to Nationals. It is an Olympic season, there are some very talented Juniors moving up and now there is a hard cut off after 18 skaters. Making it to Nationals this season is a spectacular achievement.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,487
So, again, I'd just like to say there should really be a North American Senior B in mid December. I am volun-telling Milwaukee to host it, LOL. Does Gail Tanger read this board? :)
I was just thinking about this idea last night. The US, Canada and Mexico need to get together and organize something like this on the weekend between the GPF and Christmas. Really, there are always a handful of unexpected skaters who overperform during their National Champ qualifiers but don't have the TES mins.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,487
Wouldn't change the conversation here even if the USFS had a straight forward top 3 at Nationals qualification standard - we'd still be debating whether that was a good idea & pointing to examples where it wasn't.
True enough! FSU was around back in 02, 06, and 10 for those very type of discussions!
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
11,816
That second toe on her 3/3 in her SP would have gotten a call of some sort with the same panel as Skate Canada, NHK, and France.
It did get a q call though, which isn't that out of line with the technical panels internationally. 'q' debate aside, there are some jumps that have been so underrotated that they clearly deserve < or even <<, no matter what the camera angle provided is, and then we see no call at all or 'q' as a cop out.

Do we forget the same Skate Canada panel that you mentioned, completely skipping a call on Liu's 3T short program combo (or jumps in general), and same with Tuktamysheva's 3T? ;)

But she's not likely to get high GOE and PCS internationally at this point, even if she is greatly improving.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,969
Look i love Gracie too but if she won Nationals or made the podium then US ladies are dangerously heading closer to Canadian ladies territory.
I’d argue we were there and I’m not talking the Canadian era with Osmond/Daleman or with at least Manley. I guess Karen is Josee-esque when it comes to competition nerves. Gold making the top 3 with “4 big clean triples” and fans applauding that being good enough for an Olympic berth would be a new low for US skating, that’s for sure (even if it’s a personal accomplishment for Gracie and great she made it happen after her history of hardship).
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,487
I’d argue we were there and I’m not talking the Canadian era with Osmond/Daleman or with at least Manley. I guess Karen is Josee-esque when it comes to competition nerves.
Oh, please. US women can still, generally, get at least 2 in the Worlds top ten. Remember the Canadian days of Top Ten Jen? We aren't at THAT level or even the current Canadian level (which is better, I think? maybe?).
 

sjs5572

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
I’d argue we were there and I’m not talking the Canadian era with Osmond/Daleman or with at least Manley. I guess Karen is Josee-esque when it comes to competition nerves. Gold making the top 3 with “4 big clean triples” and fans applauding that being good enough for an Olympic berth would be a new low for US skating, that’s for sure (even if it’s a personal accomplishment for Gracie and great she made it happen after her history of hardship).
Not necessarily a "new low." Sometimes, we can forget just how much the US women have progressed in the last decade. Here is Czisny winning 2009 Nationals with a 3 triple lp, the first of which would have been called underrotated and "e" under today's tech panels.

 

Lacey

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,943
You guys, Gracie Gold is probably not going to win Nationals or go to the Olympics this year.

But what is the matter with you all? Look at what Grace has done in the years since her terrible fallout? Please look at how far she has come! What she has done over seasons and years is miraculous. Do you remember her clawing her way back? I don't believe any other female, perhaps male also, has done what she has done. Good for her. She has slowly but surely come back, big time. No, she is not perfect, may not be this year or ever. But, IMO, she saved her own life, she found a coach and a rink who would take her and didn't blame anyone else for her downfall. She could barely stand up on her skates. She merely tried to get back in fighting shape. And she has done it with a big smile on her face. We should all be so proud and happy, and not snarking at her.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,265
You guys, Gracie Gold is probably not going to win Nationals or go to the Olympics this year.

But what is the matter with you all? Look at what Grace has done in the years since her terrible fallout? Please look at how far she has come! What she has done over seasons and years is miraculous. Do you remember her clawing her way back? I don't believe any other female, perhaps male also, has done what she has done. Good for her. She has slowly but surely come back, big time. No, she is not perfect, may not be this year or ever. But, IMO, she saved her own life, she found a coach and a rink who would take her and didn't blame anyone else for her downfall. She could barely stand up on her skates. She merely tried to get back in fighting shape. And she has done it with a big smile on her face. We should all be so proud and happy, and not snarking at her.
I don't believe people were snarking at Gracie, they were snarking at another poster with unrealistic expectations.
 
Last edited:

Lacey

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,943
Yes, I see that now. I was reading triple lp with an edge call & was confused.
My apologies @Lacey, I was confusing you with a previous poster whose screen name also starts with an 'L' - that's who people were snarking.

Perhaps you should start this afternoon over, you seem confused, maybe you got up too early and shouldn't be visiting the boards and commenting if you don't know what you are talking about.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,969
But what is the matter with you all? Look at what Grace has done in the years since her terrible fallout? Please look at how far she has come! What she has done over seasons and years is miraculous. Do you remember her clawing her way back? I don't believe any other female, perhaps male also, has done what she has done. Good for her. She has slowly but surely come back, big time. No, she is not perfect, may not be this year or ever. But, IMO, she saved her own life, she found a coach and a rink who would take her and didn't blame anyone else for her downfall. She could barely stand up on her skates. She merely tried to get back in fighting shape. And she has done it with a big smile on her face. We should all be so proud and happy, and not snarking at her.
Nothing is the matter with most of us. I’m not snarking at her but just saying if we’re at the state where she is a contender for the Olympic team, then the whole field is bleak in terms of competitiveness. If someone is going to present her as a viable contender for the Olympic team, then I think it’s fair if we start talking about her actual skills on display as a contender.

Regarding your point about treating her nicely and appreciating how far she’s come. I agree. She was a real and truly low place and decided to continue skating on her own terms and has come back in a way most would not have expected of her. She deserves to be commended for that. But if we’re talking Olympics, then I don’t think we need to censor ourselves.

The whole Gracie situation does bring up a good overall point though, we are pretty harsh and fickle fans. Look at all the names people just build up once they show some promise and how quickly they are dropped for another skater with potential once that previous skater failed to live up to expectations. All of the contenders have been through the ringer with us, and some times it has lead to them being snarked on. Gracie was suffering in silence for a long time and competing internationally while doing so. She can’t be the only skater who has had real hardships and issues none of us know about it…She’s just the one of the few who has opened her story up to share it.

I think analysis, our thoughts about the level of competitiveness, and criticism is still ok. However, I do think I and we all can watch our own disappointments and expectations and try to remember these are humans and not robots…and they are who we have as US women fans.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information