U.S. Women [#1]: The Contenders Unmask Themselves

Status
Not open for further replies.

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
322
Three American women medaled at Junior Worlds in the years 2012 to 2020. Gracie Gold won the silver in 2012, Ting Cui won the bronze in 2019 and Alysa Liu won the bronze in 2020. They were all up against fierce competition from the Russian women (many of whom are favorites for the big prizes in the upcoming Olympic Games and World Championships).

What strikes me right now is that all three are still competing and striving to make that Olympic team. Two of the three will probably retire after this season. All three have struggled since their Junior wins (primarily with growth). All three have decided to continue in a sport that rewards precocious talent over sustained development. That takes a lot of guts. The USFSA has seemingly given up on two of the three and the 3rd is no longer considered the hot property that she once was.

If I were the federation, I would give each of these three women (financially, coaching, mentoring, health resources...) everything that they need to succeed. Yet it looks like these three have been virtually abandoned to their own resources. These three have proven that they can be competitive and based on what I see, they are still competitive. I think these three still represent our best hope of success at the upcoming Games (even if the athletes may be struggling at the moment). They have the greatest potential.
 
Last edited:

B.Cooper

Well-Known Member
Messages
508
Will post this here, as the topic has included mental health.... but will also cross post in the mental health thread..
"How Olympians Are Fighting to Put Athletes' Mental Health First"

perhaps this will provide additional insight to the stressors that contribute to changes in mental health and well being
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
Three American women medaled at Junior Worlds in the years 2012 to 2020. Gracie Gold won the silver in 2012, Ting Cui won the bronze in 2019 and Alysa Liu won the bronze in 2020. They were all up against fierce competition from the Russian women (many of whom are favorites for the big prizes in the upcoming Olympic Games and World Championships).

What strikes me right now is that all three are still competing and striving to make that Olympic team. Two of the three will probably retire after this season. All three have struggled since their Junior wins (primarily with growth). All three have decided to continue in a sport that rewards precocious talent over sustained development. That takes a lot of guts. The USFSA has seemingly given up on two of the three and the 3rd is no longer considered the hot property that she once was.

If I were the federation, I would give each of these three ladies (financially, coaching, mentoring, health resources...) everything that they need to succeed. Yet it looks like these three have been virtually abandoned to their own resources. These three have proven that they can be competitive and based on what I see, they are still competitive. I think these three still represent our best hope of success at the upcoming Games (even if the athletes may be struggling at the moment). They have the greatest potential.
But aren’t most athletes pretty much left on their own by the federation? It’s not like there are unlimited resources as there are other women who currently are competing internationally and vying for placements against international seniors. It’s not like the current top American skaters are useless. I understand if the federation has to make choices. If they were to disproportionately give resources to two skaters who have been MIA internationally, then it could be seen as favoritism without justification. Caroline Zhang was a world junior champion and made the world junior podium three years in a row in the mid-2000s and people kept harping about how the USFS paid her favoritism and kept giving her international assignments seasons later even when she clearly wasn’t competitive.
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
322
But aren’t most athletes pretty much left on their own by the federation? It’s not like there are unlimited resources as there are other women who currently are competing internationally and vying for placements against international seniors. It’s not like the current top American skaters are useless. I understand if the federation has to make choices. If they were to disproportionately give resources to two skaters who have been MIA internationally, then it could be seen as favoritism without justification. Caroline Zhang was a world junior champion and made the world junior podium three years in a row in the mid-2000s and people kept harping about how the USFS paid her favoritism and kept giving her international assignments seasons later even when she clearly wasn’t competitive.
I would argue that the three (by virtue of their achievements at Junior Worlds) earned the attention (of the federation) (same with Caroline Zhang). People are going nuts over the latest crop of juniors but they have not medaled at any International competitions yet (nor are they likely to given the technical challenges they face). I see no reason to put the cart before the horse. We have three proven contenders, who have earned the Feds support. I want them to get it.
 

sjs5572

Well-Known Member
Messages
292
Three American women medaled at Junior Worlds in the years 2012 to 2020. Gracie Gold won the silver in 2012, Ting Cui won the bronze in 2019 and Alysa Liu won the bronze in 2020. They were all up against fierce competition from the Russian women (many of whom are favorites for the big prizes in the upcoming Olympic Games and World Championships).

What strikes me right now is that all three are still competing and striving to make that Olympic team. Two of the three will probably retire after this season. All three have struggled since their Junior wins (primarily with growth). All three have decided to continue in a sport that rewards precocious talent over sustained development. That takes a lot of guts. The USFSA has seemingly given up on two of the three and the 3rd is no longer considered the hot property that she once was.

If I were the federation, I would give each of these three women (financially, coaching, mentoring, health resources...) everything that they need to succeed. Yet it looks like these three have been virtually abandoned to their own resources. These three have proven that they can be competitive and based on what I see, they are still competitive. I think these three still represent our best hope of success at the upcoming Games (even if the athletes may be struggling at the moment). They have the greatest potential.
I love Ting and Gracie. However, realistically, only Alysa is our best hope for the upcoming games. This should be self evident after the Cranberry Cup.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
I would argue that the three (by virtue of their achievements at Junior Worlds) earned the attention (of the federation) (same with Caroline Zhang). People are going nuts over the latest crop of juniors but they have not medaled at any International competitions yet (nor are they likely to given the technical challenges they face). I see no reason to put the cart before the horse. We have three proven contenders, who have earned the Feds support. I want them to get it.
Alysa Liu I can see as she's a competing top senior and her junior worlds was just last year. The problem I have with your plan is that you're assuming the field is exactly the same as it was back in 2012 and that Ting Cui is in the same exact shape as she was in 2019 before her major injury. Things have changed and shifted. As things are now, Karen Chen placed 4th at Worlds and Bradie Tennell has consistently improved her TES, GOE, and PCS to be more and more competitive with the best international competitors. Amber Glenn is increasing her technical repertoire to include a triple axel and completed it at Nationals a this year. I understand not throwing away talent, so I'm not arguing that. However, you seem to think all priorities should go to two skaters who haven't really proven themselves at the expense of other skaters have been consistently competing at the country's and world's best. I think the USFS is right to not reward past accomplishments, especially from many years ago, and instead will try to evenly divide funding based on more recent results. Now, I do agree with the USFS offering more in the way of psychological support and help if skaters find themselves needing it.
 

wickedwitch

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,235
Three American women medaled at Junior Worlds in the years 2012 to 2020. Gracie Gold won the silver in 2012, Ting Cui won the bronze in 2019 and Alysa Liu won the bronze in 2020. They were all up against fierce competition from the Russian women (many of whom are favorites for the big prizes in the upcoming Olympic Games and World Championships).

What strikes me right now is that all three are still competing and striving to make that Olympic team. Two of the three will probably retire after this season. All three have struggled since their Junior wins (primarily with growth). All three have decided to continue in a sport that rewards precocious talent over sustained development. That takes a lot of guts. The USFSA has seemingly given up on two of the three and the 3rd is no longer considered the hot property that she once was.

If I were the federation, I would give each of these three women (financially, coaching, mentoring, health resources...) everything that they need to succeed. Yet it looks like these three have been virtually abandoned to their own resources. These three have proven that they can be competitive and based on what I see, they are still competitive. I think these three still represent our best hope of success at the upcoming Games (even if the athletes may be struggling at the moment). They have the greatest potential.
I'm not sure they'd be doing Gracie any favors by treating her as one of the top 3 ladies in the US right now.
 

Jammers

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,924
Three American women medaled at Junior Worlds in the years 2012 to 2020. Gracie Gold won the silver in 2012, Ting Cui won the bronze in 2019 and Alysa Liu won the bronze in 2020. They were all up against fierce competition from the Russian women (many of whom are favorites for the big prizes in the upcoming Olympic Games and World Championships).

What strikes me right now is that all three are still competing and striving to make that Olympic team. Two of the three will probably retire after this season. All three have struggled since their Junior wins (primarily with growth). All three have decided to continue in a sport that rewards precocious talent over sustained development. That takes a lot of guts. The USFSA has seemingly given up on two of the three and the 3rd is no longer considered the hot property that she once was.

If I were the federation, I would give each of these three women (financially, coaching, mentoring, health resources...) everything that they need to succeed. Yet it looks like these three have been virtually abandoned to their own resources. These three have proven that they can be competitive and based on what I see, they are still competitive. I think these three still represent our best hope of success at the upcoming Games (even if the athletes may be struggling at the moment). They have the greatest potential.
No one has given up on Alysa certainly not the USFSA she didn't even really get a chance to compete last season so that's kind of a mute point as for Ting she's been on the sidelines for almost two years with injuries what was the USFSA supposed to do for her? As for Gracie she had all the support of the USFSA for years but let's face it she is no longer competitive and you can only give support to so many skaters and this is not the Gracie of 2012-16 who on her best days was almost always contender.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,097
No one has given up on Alysa certainly not the USFSA she didn't even really get a chance to compete last season so that's kind of a mute point as for Ting she's been on the sidelines for almost two years with injuries what was the USFSA supposed to do for her? As for Gracie she had all the support of the USFSA for years but let's face it she is no longer competitive and you can only give support to so many skaters and this is not the Gracie of 2012-16 who on her best days was almost always contender.
Right? I'm not sure where anyone is getting the idea that USFS is dumping Alysa. TSL continues to talk discouragingly about Alysa, and I don't understand why. They were saying that sending Alysa to Nebelhorn is BAD, because, why? Something about the hype train starting too soon? Uh, hello, the Alysa hype train left the station three years ago. So, they think either Bell or Glenn should go. I don't understand it. Alysa's ultra-C jumps might not be there, but I would be most confident expecting a 7 triple program with two 3/3s from Alysa rather than Mariah or Amber (have either of those two EVER done a 7 triple, 2 3/3 program?). Send Alysa, let's start the "hype" or whatever for her ASAP. Olympics is what, six months away? She can handle the hype for another 6 months.
 
Last edited:

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,266
Frankly, Alysa is the smartest choice. She's the only one with a consistent 3A, the only one consistent in competition, and has the most rotated triple jumps of the US ladies. She's also someone who will need to build an international reputation for herself if USFS wants her to have a shot at the Olympic podium. The rest of the ladies (other than Amber) will probably get UR calls whether or not they're clean - which they probably won't be.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,695
Frankly, Alysa is the smartest choice. She's the only one with a consistent 3A, the only one consistent in competition, and has the most rotated triple jumps of the US ladies. She's also someone who will need to build an international reputation for herself if USFS wants her to have a shot at the Olympic podium. The rest of the ladies (other than Amber) will probably get UR calls whether or not they're clean - which they probably won't be.

My bet is Alysa. My personal fav would be Amber.

Ill be happy with either.
 

kwanatic

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,756
Alysa is definitely the best choice as she's proven herself to be a strong competitor on multiple occasions. Mariah is a big ol' question mark right now after last season. Amber was great at nationals but she hasn't had the opportunity to compete again since then. We don't know if that's what we can expect from her now or if it was a fluke...

If this is a situation where we need to rely on someone, I can't see the choice being anyone other than Alysa at this point.
 

mtnskater

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,175
TSL has been down on Alysa since the start...at least Dave. First, all we heard was that her jump technique would not survive puberty. Second that her dad Arthur should not have gotten a doner egg from a white woman (implying that Alysa had grown too big to do figure skating) 😱 🤯😳 Recently Jonathan was gushing over Alysa’s total package and visible improvements in the Peggy Fleming videos and Dave flat out said something like Arthur is going to go nuts when she doesn’t make the Olympic team and other skaters should snap up Jeremy and Massimo as coaches immediately (implying Arthur will fire them as coaches immediately). He seems to really not like Alysa’s dad which seems to be clouding any objectivity about her and her skating.

I agree with those who think Alysa has a great shot to make the Olympics and would easily qualify a third spot at Nebelhorn. USFS does have a habit of naming younger up and comers to the Olympic team when we have three spots (e.g. Polina Edmunds). I’m so excited for the coming skating season!! I love Alysa so obviously TSL makes my blood boil when they make such offensive and snide comments about her and her family. Not only do I really enjoy her skating and watching her progress, but she is a lovely young woman with charisma and spark with much to offer the sport.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
Messages
2,997
Thanks for the womansplaining. I was just giving an opinion. Like you always seem to in everything. I didn't realize it's not okay to give an opinion about anyone that is not my gender without being attacked by some of you. I just hope that you don't comment on skaters that don't match your gender identity. Otherwise that makes you a hypocrite. And quite sexist. But that's okay. It's okay to not be okay.
I guess shit talking and opinion are the same thing in your book. Your comments are completely insensitive to someone who has spoken about her mental troubles (or anyone for that matter). Maybe you are just trying to be funny but I don't know many others that are laughing besides the other usual suspects that liked your post.

You do NOT need to put down Gracie to uplift Ting.
 

doritos

Active Member
Messages
69
My sources tell me that US Figure Skating is using the Cranberry Cup as one of the deciding factors for the Oberstdorf assignment, and that in addition to the names that were posted on Twitter last week by SCOB, Amber Glenn will be there with Liu and Bell, and others like Paige Rydberg and Gracie Gold. Young You is also rumored to be competing and I think I saw Kailani Crane's name mentioned in a tweet.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,461
My sources tell me that US Figure Skating is using the Cranberry Cup as one of the deciding factors for the Oberstdorf assignment, and that in addition to the names that were posted on Twitter last week by SCOB, Amber Glenn will be there with Liu and Bell, and others like Paige Rydberg and Gracie Gold. Young You is also rumored to be competing and I think I saw Kailani Crane's name mentioned in a tweet.
Entries were just posted today and the list includes all the women you mentioned plus Madeline Schizas of Canada.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,695
My sources tell me that US Figure Skating is using the Cranberry Cup as one of the deciding factors for the Oberstdorf assignment, and that in addition to the names that were posted on Twitter last week by SCOB, Amber Glenn will be there with Liu and Bell, and others like Paige Rydberg and Gracie Gold. Young You is also rumored to be competing and I think I saw Kailani Crane's name mentioned in a tweet.

Wow what day is this? I may have to take the entire day off of work. This needs to be streamed…

By the way, is it true Dave Lease actually made comments about Alysa’s fathers choice of an egg donor? Does he get any more inappropriate?

Why would any skater, coach or official i.e. Megan Duhamel give those guys cred by doing interviews and such with them?
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,266
TSL has been down on Alysa since the start...at least Dave. First, all we heard was that her jump technique would not survive puberty. Second that her dad Arthur should not have gotten a doner egg from a white woman (implying that Alysa had grown too big to do figure skating) 😱 🤯😳 Recently Jonathan was gushing over Alysa’s total package and visible improvements in the Peggy Fleming videos and Dave flat out said something like Arthur is going to go nuts when she doesn’t make the Olympic team and other skaters should snap up Jeremy and Massimo as coaches immediately (implying Arthur will fire them as coaches immediately). He seems to really not like Alysa’s dad which seems to be clouding any objectivity about her and her skating.

I agree with those who think Alysa has a great shot to make the Olympics and would easily qualify a third spot at Nebelhorn. USFS does have a habit of naming younger up and comers to the Olympic team when we have three spots (e.g. Polina Edmunds). I’m so excited for the coming skating season!! I love Alysa so obviously TSL makes my blood boil when they make such offensive and snide comments about her and her family. Not only do I really enjoy her skating and watching her progress, but she is a lovely young woman with charisma and spark with much to offer the sport.
Why the heck does he hate Alysa so much? Is it because she isn't one of his Russian "daughters?"

I also don't get his comments about Alysa's Dad. Anyone who's met Alysa can tell you he's the furthest thing from a tiger parent. Even those who haven't met her can probably tell just by her instagram posting habits (not carefully curated to perfection and filled with age appropriate antics), her coaching situation (by all accounts arranged by USFS; not to mention they never fired Lupetsky even in rough patches until USFS arranged alternatives for him), her siblings (none anywhere near as high achieving as her), her interviews (lots of stuff about her self motivation), her travel (often without him), and the lack of any interview mentioning her Dad being "dedicated" to her skating in the way people mention other famous tiger parents in various sports. Maybe Dave believes in racist stereotypes along with his misogynistic ones?
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,359
Why on earth does anyone listen to TSL? :scream: Lots of other places to get updates on skating.
I wouldn't say that there are a lot of places to get skating updates, but I listen because I'm interested in the commentary, and there are a limited number of podcasts about skating. Most of the others I find are either really boring, like some of the things that Jackie Wong has been involved with, or cover the sport in a way that glosses over the rough edges.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,266
I think the issue is the lack of well produced skating podcasts. There are more than there were, but TSL still has the highest production value.

There are a few others with good production values, but they're not really recap shows (Polina's podcast) and some are focused more on one federation (IceTalk, That Figure Skating Show).
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,096
It depends on what you're looking for. I myself am not a podcast listener/viewer. But I know there are other figure skating discussion podcasts out there, for example, the Flutzes & Waxels podcast from Canada. There's also the InTheLoop podcast, but I'm not sure if they're active right now. Following figure skating people on Twitter is a good way to find out about podcasts.

The trouble with a lot of skating podcasts is, frankly, that they don't last. It's a LOT of work to keep a podcast or web site going. TSL may have a big enough subscriber base to be making some actual revenue from ads, which is then also an incentive for them to keep going.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information