U.S. Supreme Court & judicial system

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,549
I can't even speak. This is not a free country. It is a country owned and controlled by gun manufacturers and their pawns including six Supreme Court justices who want to tear this country to shreds in everyway.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a restrictive New York gun law in a major ruling for gun rights.

The justices’ 6-3 decision is expected to ultimately allow more people to legally carry guns on the streets of the nation’s largest cities — including New York, Los Angeles and Boston — and elsewhere. About a quarter of the U.S. population lives in states expected to be affected by the ruling, the high court’s first major gun decision in more than a decade.
SCOTUS doesn't care. They are all about getting protection for themselves. Who else can afford that?

And I just saw this one -

It even says "The Supreme Court gave Republican legislative leaders in North Carolina a win Thursday".
 

susan6

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,231
Here’s the only optimistic thing I can think of. It took far-reaching SCOTUS decisions like Brown and Roe for the right to organize itself for long-term power. This Court’s decisions on guns, abortion, voting rights etc should mobilize the left to build the serious infrastructure needed to get it back.
Yeah, BlueRidge pointed out the problem. That kind of organization and mobilization takes decades. The conservatives played the long game....back in the 1970's they devised a plan, selected targets, and gradually infiltrated the government, the courts, the churches, the schools. AND, they were unified. You honestly think the left has the ability to do that? We're too busy targeting each other with purity tests about who's not "intersectional" enough.
Yeah I watch too many Marvel movies and this is a stupid analogy, but the Hydra infiltration of the US, described in The Winter Soldier? Conservative evangelicals did that. And the statement by Zemo in "Civil War" applies here: "An empire toppled by its enemies can rise again. But one which crumbles from within? That's dead. Forever."
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,306
Great, here comes the analysis where we blame the far left for this.... I blame the everybody for letting this shitty system run for as long as they did and allowing themselves to be happy enough with their distractions, not the people who are actually paying attention and tried to tell people how crappy these institutional systems are and tried to do something about it. But the message was too mean and inconvenient for people. They just care about themselves.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
39,877
I'm anticipating tax dollars going to ultra-Orthodox schools where Torah and Talmud are taught but other subjects are neglected. Some kids grow up across the river from Manhattan (having been born in the US), with weak English language skills. And no practical job skills.
Exactly. And the Orthodox lobbyists in D.C. filed an amicus brief supporting the evangelicals on the case. In towns where they’ve taken over the school boards you can kiss the public schools goodbye.

In Israel where the government supports ultra-religious schools as a matter of course and political necessity, hundreds of thousands of kids get almost no secular education at all. This is where we are headed: vouchers for all, a windfall for the religious schools and a dwindling funding base for public schools.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,306
This country is over. The experiment has failed. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said a Constitution only has about a 19-year life span before another one needs to be adopted; this current one ain't doing it anymore. Also, fair vote and proportional representation over winner-take-all would solve a lot of our issues with this country becoming less and less democratic and more of this strange mix of oligarchic, plutocratic, and theocratic with corporate welfare running rampant and running everything.
 

ChelleC

Anti-quad activist
Messages
8,041
I'm anticipating tax dollars going to ultra-Orthodox schools where Torah and Talmud are taught but other subjects are neglected. Some kids grow up across the river from Manhattan (having been born in the US), with weak English language skills. And no practical job skills.
I'm looking forward to tax dollars going to Muslim schools and Evangelicals losing their minds over it.

This conservative activist court is just as bad as I'd imagined one would be.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,134
Just saying, it is time to change the number of justices. It has been done before. And 9 justices are too few in any case to handle all the cases. It was too few back in 2018.


We should at least go to 15. :slinkaway:

The court is now entirely political and state decisis means nothing, so there is no good reason not to do it.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,306
Just saying, it is time to change the number of justices. It has been done before. And 9 justices are too few in any case to handle all the cases. It was too few back in 2018.


We should at least go to 15. :slink:

The court is now entirely political and state decisis means nothing, so there is no good reason not to do it.
WE should also truly increase the number of members in the House of Representatives, honestly.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
60,532
Yeah, BlueRidge pointed out the problem. That kind of organization and mobilization takes decades. The conservatives played the long game....back in the 1970's they devised a plan, selected targets, and gradually infiltrated the government, the courts, the churches, the schools. AND, they were unified. You honestly think the left has the ability to do that? We're too busy targeting each other with purity tests about who's not "intersectional" enough.
Yeah I watch too many Marvel movies and this is a stupid analogy, but the Hydra infiltration of the US, described in The Winter Soldier? Conservative evangelicals did that. And the statement by Zemo in "Civil War" applies here: "An empire toppled by its enemies can rise again. But one which crumbles from within? That's dead. Forever."

The left is an ordinary, democratic political force. We have to be clear-eyed about the way in which the right took over the courts and is gunning for the rest of our political institutions, no Marvel movies needed. They organized the way authoritarian movements have always organized: as cadres who are indoctrinated into a belief system and are super-motivated by this indoctrination and the multi-tentacled institutions of the political movement which keep them locked in.

There is no organizing a democratic movement to challenge this through democratic processes. It has to be a society wide realization of what has happened which rejects the far right completely. Either war or long-term collapse like the Soviet Union are pretty much the historical precendents.
This country is over. The experiment has failed. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said a Constitution only has about a 19-year life span before another one needs to be adopted.
^^This is how I feel.

Eventually the crash and burn will come and something new will arise. But those many years until then? Are bad.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,411
I think the following:

There needs to be an accessible online database for voters who want to look up which local officials are recommended by civil rights advocates. Gone are the days in which one should need to attend local Wheat League meetings or whatever in order to educate oneself about how to vote. Gone are many of the local papers that are consumed by everyone & used as a regular place for candidates to speak, and in many cases, gone are the local reporters that made sure all candidates shared views within those papers. People need to make educated decisions; but they have to have better tools for doing that than glossy ads sent out in the mail by candidates with the best lobbying support. It should be easy, and it should be thorough.

It has to include races in which there are no Democrats running. It needs to include judicial nominees. It needs to include districts in which Democrats don't have a prayer. There is almost always a better decision, and sometimes that's not obvious; but--for example--in the last election here, I couldn't find a thing online about maybe 50% of the races in which I had the opportunity to make a decision. And afterward, there was even an article about how one of the judicial nominees--the only one that advertised in my area--had been kicked out of his job in the county where he had worked. Fortunately he had not won. But why should anyone have to find that out after the election?

Do you know what voters do when they can't find any information about the candidates for a race? They don't vote on that race. Or they vote for the incumbent or vote the ticket. And then people with an agenda vote.

I'm tired of reading complaints from pundits complaining that this race was lost and no one listened, when the pundits, themselves, never even talked about that race. There are too many political races for them to do so, and they frequently aren't talking about the close races that will make a difference because those aren't the races with the exhibitionists that are constantly working for a soundbite & media attention.

We have a Voter's Pamphlet, and with major races and big ballot measures, you can usually go there and at least see who The League of Women Voters and particular unions (medical, educational, industry-related) and business organizations support. But those are a very tiny fraction of the actual races held. There needs to be a place where you can look up information on all those other races.
 
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susan6

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,231
I think the following:

There needs to be an accessible online database for voters who want to look up which local officials are recommended by civil rights advocates. Gone are the days in which one should need to attend local Wheat League meetings or whatever in order to educate oneself about how to vote. Gone are many of the local papers that are consumed by everyone & used as a regular place for candidates to speak, and in many cases, gone are the local reporters that made sure all candidates shared views within those papers. People need to make educated decisions; but they have to have better tools for doing that than glossy ads sent out in the mail by candidates with the best lobbying support. It should be easy, and it should be thorough.

It has to include races in which there are no Democrats running. It needs to include judicial nominees.
THIS. Do not sleep on the judges. There's always a bunch of judges on the ballot and the newspapers never cover them. All you need to do is this: google the judge's name. Find a biography online. Do CTRL-F for "federalist society". If the judge is a member, vote them OUT. The Federalist Society is how the conservatives took over the judicial branch.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,523
This is what awaits you all in the US if Roe v Wade is overturned:
Except it won't be all. That is good in a way because some people in some states will continue to have access to this necessary healthcare and can help those in the states where abortion is not legal. But it's also bad because people will have less incentive to fight it if everything is hunky-dory in their own area. It also will contribute to the continued fracturing of this country into haves and have-nots.

WE should also truly increase the number of members in the House of Representatives, honestly.
That would help a lot. States like CA are under-represented for our population right now.

I believe there should be a Supreme Court justice for every US Circuit Court. Right now there are 13, I believe. And if we get a 14th, then we get 2 more justices (to keep an odd number).

There should also probably be some limit on their terms though I am not a fan of blank rules that make perfectly competent people retire because they have reached an arbitrary deadline. Maybe serve for 30 years or age 80, whichever comes first?

There needs to be an accessible online database for voters who want to look up which local officials are recommended by civil rights advocates.
The ACLU does this. You have to go to the website of your local chapter, not the national website though. They will list all the local races where they have an opinion. If it's not listed, they don't have a strong opinion either way.

I actually feel like there is more information than ever these days and it's much easier to decide on these smaller, local races. I just sign up for the mailing lists of organizations that make recommendations in areas I care about (i.e., civil rights, homelessness, gun safety, education) They send their endorsements right to my Inbox. And for anyone else, there is Google. It's so much easier these days to find out information about candidates than it was back when I first started voting or even just 20 years ago.

Sometimes we are screwed though. For example, all the judges' races on my ballot earlier in the month only had one candidate. If one of them is bad, what can you do as there is no opponent?
 

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
564
I can't even speak. This is not a free country. It is a country owned and controlled by gun manufacturers and their pawns including six Supreme Court justices who want to tear this country to shreds in everyway.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a restrictive New York gun law in a major ruling for gun rights.

The justices’ 6-3 decision is expected to ultimately allow more people to legally carry guns on the streets of the nation’s largest cities — including New York, Los Angeles and Boston — and elsewhere. About a quarter of the U.S. population lives in states expected to be affected by the ruling, the high court’s first major gun decision in more than a decade.

If anyone needs a reason to have a drink tonight, let me recommend reading the paragraph where Clarence Thomas cites Dred Scott in his majority opinion in this case.
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
Messages
22,463
They won't care. We live in an age when people have been propagandized into believing that there is NOTHING that is dangerous compared to the far left which is the same as the liberals and the Democratic Party and that the far left is at this moment about to impose a totalitarian dictatorship that will make the Soviet Union look mild so ANYTHING is acceptable as long as it is a defeat for that far left aka the Democratic Party, liberals and progressives.
This is why I can't get all outrage and invested in the hearings. It's not going to result in any actions or change. I only have so much energy and using it senselessly on something that is futile is futile.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,339
This country is over. The experiment has failed. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said a Constitution only has about a 19-year life span before another one needs to be adopted; this current one ain't doing it anymore. Also, fair vote and proportional representation over winner-take-all would solve a lot of our issues with this country becoming less and less democratic and more of this strange mix of oligarchic, plutocratic, and theocratic with corporate welfare running rampant and running everything.

I wish I didn't agree with this, but I kind of do. I'm really feeling down today. It's hard to see how we get out of this. The only slim hope is holding Congress in 2022, which could potentially allow for Supreme Court reform and a fair election in 2024. However, the chances of that happening just don't seem good. :( :(


Except it won't be all. That is good in a way because some people in some states will continue to have access to this necessary healthcare and can help those in the states where abortion is not legal. But it's also bad because people will have less incentive to fight it if everything is hunky-dory in their own area. It also will contribute to the continued fracturing of this country into haves and have-nots.

If Roe v Wade is gone and/or Congress is lost to Republicans, I don't see this remaining the case for long. Either a Republican-held Congress will pass a nationwide abortion ban or there will be challenges to blue-state abortion laws, just as happened today with the blue-state NY gun law.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,306
With the gun law decision, I don’t want to hear about how Republicans and conservatives are all about state’s rights. This whole legal fiction about the second Amendment is all interpretation and isn’t really a textualist or an originalist interpretation of the Constitution or the second amendment at all. That right has been expanded beyond belief based on…”judicial activism”. That old right wing talking point is nothing more than just a talking point. I don’t want any conservatives thinking they have any real logical consistency here.
 

Spikefan

At the Hubbell Salon
Messages
2,524
I’m honestly to the point of believing they would have done exactly as the Trump team was saying, decline to hear anything. Or worse, side with them. The lawful Republicans will not be around the next time this happens.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,841
It all just proves that States rights don't exist. It is all about who has the most money to be able to launch the legal challenges to take it all the way to the SCOTUS who will now rule in favour of anything that aligns with extreme right wing Christian values (only what suits them).
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,339
A pretty unsparing look at the significance of today's decision from columnist Michael Cohen:


With this decision, the conservative majority on the Court has shown, once again, that it simply doesn’t care about its legitimacy. They have the votes and they will wield them in any manner they want, irrespective of public opinion, public safety, common sense, and the law itself.

As bad as the Court’s decision on guns will be for the country, this is just a preview of what is to come. We may only be days away from the Court’s conservative majority taking away the federally guaranteed right to an abortion. The government’s ability to regulate greenhouse gas emissions could be thrown out as well.

The Supreme Court’s efforts to bend the arc of history back into the past is only just beginning.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,537
God Bless the SCOTUS!

USA remains the land of FREEDOM!
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

USA LATINOS (not “LatiniX”) for traditional values AND the ability to defend themselves.

More landmark decisions today, please!
Are you being sarcastic or is this for real?
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,537
BTW nothing says freedom like government support of religious schools.

Hooray for 50-75 years from now.
Well, Prayer in schools was a 1962 decision (?) and Roe was decided in 1973. We ended up w. Reagan in 1980 and all the changes that followed. So, it's quite possible it would happen sooner ...
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,426
This is the Supreme Court I want, even though I don't agree with many of its decisions from a political perspective. We can only be free if the courts enforce a common-sense, plain-language interpretation of the law that applies equally to everyone. Where things are unclear or unstated, I believe legislation should be the solution. If the legislation violates the Constiution, a Constitutional Amendment is the solution. I do agree that the process to modify the Constitution is too burdensome, but people may be thankful for that if the Republicans have a rout in the mid-terms....

With the gun law decision, I don’t want to hear about how Republicans and conservatives are all about state’s rights. This whole legal fiction about the second Amendment is all interpretation and isn’t really a textualist or an originalist interpretation of the Constitution or the second amendment at all.

You're a lawyer, and I'm not, and I respect that. I'm curious for your rationale here because it seems like a textualist interpretation to me. The Second Amendment is abundantly clear that people - i.e., individuals - have the right to bear arms. It also seems like an originalist interpretation as well. The point was to give people the explicit right to take up arms if necessary to keep the government in check.

I may not like the Second Amendment, but it's clear and straightforward. Far moreso than abortion, same-sex marriage, or any of the other rights inferred using clauses that contain nothing of the sort, and that ordinary people would find confusing to link.
 

Spikefan

At the Hubbell Salon
Messages
2,524
but it's clear and straightforward
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

How is that clear? Well regulated should mean a state can pass laws to regulate it (control or supervise something by means of rules and regulation). What does militia mean? I’m not a militia. There is nothing clear or straightforward here but you can applaud this safely from the UK while we get slaughtered.
 
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