U.S. Supreme Court & judicial system

MsZem

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Amy Howe on yesterday's argument, and the grounds on which SCOTUS might decide the ACA case:
 

ballettmaus

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John Roberts seems very irritated about this whole case.
I think because he feels Republicans are asking the courts to do what they couldn't get done, so they're using the courts for their own political purposes and he's already said a couple of years ago that he doesn't like that. I guess, smart people would have withdrawn a bunch of lawsuits that had the appearance of being political or not filed them in the first place but we're talking about Trump and Co here.
 

caseyedwards

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I think because he feels Republicans are asking the courts to do what they couldn't get done, so they're using the courts for their own political purposes and he's already said a couple of years ago that he doesn't like that. I guess, smart people would have withdrawn a bunch of lawsuits that had the appearance of being political or not filed them in the first place but we're talking about Trump and Co here.
This has been going on since 2010 so nothing to do with Trump really. Just republicans opposing all the federalizing of healthcare in America
 

caseyedwards

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Amazing how much roberts always votes with liberals now. He is just always voting with liberals. He has replaced RBG as liberal




Roberts decision is all about having total blind trust in anyone in government! Which is amazing for a former conservative

“It is a significant matter to override determinations made by public health officials”
 

DORISPULASKI

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Amazing how much roberts always votes with liberals now. He is just always voting with liberals. He has replaced RBG as liberal




Roberts decision is all about having total blind trust in anyone in government! Which is amazing for a former conservative

“It is a significant matter to override determinations made by public health officials”
So...churches are explicitly ok to behave in ways known to lead to sickness and death of people?. Nice.

So next, if proponents of the Aztec religion want to sacrifice to the Sun God, SCOTUS might well be ok with that, too?
 

caseyedwards

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So...churches are explicitly ok to behave in ways known to lead to sickness and death of people?. Nice.

So next, if proponents of the Aztec religion want to sacrifice to the Sun God, SCOTUS might well be ok with that, too?
It’s not about the behavior of religious organizations but government officials. Restaurants and churches can both have the same capacity but NY and California for some reason said churches must have less people. Why did government officials do that?
 

sk9tingfan

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rfisher

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Let them and when they get sick and show up at the ED, they should be turned away and told to pray for healing. I'm over the "I'll do whatever I want" crowd who come crying for help after the fact. Our medical resources are finite.
 

sk9tingfan

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Let them and when they get sick and show up at the ED, they should be turned away and told to pray for healing. I'm over the "I'll do whatever I want" crowd who come crying for help after the fact. Our medical resources are finite.
ITA! As a health care professional, there are times when I literally cry for the doctors, nurses and other personnel who have to care for them. I was disgusted by reports from nurses in the Midwest and West who have said that there are patients till their dying breaths will not accept that they have *********. I blame Donald Trump for this.
 

alexikeguchi

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Let them and when they get sick and show up at the ED, they should be turned away and told to pray for healing. I'm over the "I'll do whatever I want" crowd who come crying for help after the fact. Our medical resources are finite.
I just got back from making inpatient rounds on our malignant hematology unit, and I completely agree. Our patients needing intensive care are now in the trauma and neuro ICUs since the MICU is a giant c*v*s unit. Our patients are typically in the hospital for several weeks to even months at a time, and they can no longer have family members room in or even visit because our community transmission is through the roof. These are the people whose rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are actually being violated.
 

once_upon

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The hospital keeps trying to send my brother home because they need beds/staff for ********* patients. Except he keeps having SVT episodes. They get him stable and wham another arrhythmia.
Hospital resources are limited.
 

ballettmaus

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I don't get it. By limiting crowd size, no one is infringing on anyone's right to freedom of religion. This is not about practicing anyone's faith, it's about attending a religious service which you don't have to do to practice your religion and which does not influence which religion you choose to practice. There is a difference between freedom of religion and being allowed to let religion dictate every aspect of life to the extend that it infringes on the rights of others.
 

sk9tingfan

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I don't get it. By limiting crowd size, no one is infringing on anyone's right to freedom of religion. This is not about practicing anyone's faith, it's about attending a religious service which you don't have to do to practice your religion and which does not influence which religion you choose to practice. There is a difference between freedom of religion and being allowed to let religion dictate every aspect of life to the extend that it infringes on the rights of others.
If there's any department of health department that can start to quantify/pinpoint the impact of these large religious gatherings, it's the New York State Department of Health. I would love Cuomo to post their findings and send them directly to the Supreme Court Majority. I would also like them to quantify the impact associated with staff who become ill and/or die and other first response personnel. There's got to be something that shocks them into reality.
 

caseyedwards

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I don't get it. By limiting crowd size, no one is infringing on anyone's right to freedom of religion. This is not about practicing anyone's faith, it's about attending a religious service which you don't have to do to practice your religion and which does not influence which religion you choose to practice. There is a difference between freedom of religion and being allowed to let religion dictate every aspect of life to the extend that it infringes on the rights of others.

But why can a liquor store can have more people than a church? It’s just baffling
 

VGThuy

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I think rallies fall into political speech and action and that’s one thing states are wary of limiting due to our history and precedent. Not allowing people the right to go out and protest is just a step too far since that and voting are like the only things citizens can do to exercise political power. Now one can say weddings are important but one can still have the right to marry without a giant wedding and they can always be replanned once restrictions ease up IF people just did what they were supposed to do rather than acting like spoiled brats.

I do think some states regulations make no goddamn sense though and understand why people are driven crazy but certain inconsistencies.
 

caseyedwards

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If you spend as much time in a liquor store and do the same activities in a liquor store as you do in church, you might want to seek out a therapist. :saint:
What do you do in a church? Sit for a little a while. Maybe walk around briefly. And shake a hand? You can read with a mask. A mass is not a party.
 

DORISPULASKI

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You sing. You shake hands. You may hug. You repeat prayers and confessions in unison. You sit close together.

The singing is particularly good at spreading the *****.

And some churches are apt to have shouting, speaking in tongues, playing of brass instruments.

The church is not the building. You can do as many churches do, including mine - hold services on line and meet with zoom meetings.
 
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caseyedwards

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You sing. You shake hands. You may hug. You repeat prayers and confessions in unison. You sit close together.

The singing is particularly good at spreading the *****.

And some churches are apt to have shouting, speaking in tongues, playing of brass instruments.

The church is not the building. You can do as many churches do, including mine - hold services on line and meet with zoom meetings.
Fact: people have worn masks and into church including for singing and no longer do hand shakes. Elbows maybe! If so gloves are worn.
You also do not sit close together anymore.
Sorry but not all churches are evangelical Baptist revival meetings
There have been prepackaged bread and pre poured wine
 

ballettmaus

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What do you do in a church? Sit for a little a while. Maybe walk around briefly. And shake a hand? You can read with a mask. A mass is not a party.
I don't sit in a liquor store, I don't sit for a "little while" in a liquor store, I don't shake anyone's hand in a liquor store, other than the labels I don't read in a liquor store, I don't sing, I don't listen to a sermon and I don't pray in a liquor store and who said anything about a party?
 

Susan1

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I don't sit in a liquor store, I don't sit for a "little while" in a liquor store, I don't shake anyone's hand in a liquor store, other than the labels I don't read in a liquor store, I don't sing, I don't listen to a sermon and I don't pray in a liquor store and who said anything about a party?
The comparison is ridiculous - Notice he's complaining about "capacity" - "At the same time, the Governor has chosen to impose no capacity restrictions on certain businesses he considers “essential.” And it turns out the businesses the Governor considers essential include hardware stores, acupuncturists, and liquor stores. Bicycle repair shops, certain signage companies, accountants, lawyers, and insurance agents are all essential too. So, at least according to the Governor, it may be unsafe to go to church, but it is always fine to pickup another bottle of wine, shop for a new bike, or spend the afternoon exploring your distal points and meridians."

I can't imagine any of those places packing them in (and staying) like they want to do churches. 50 people all going to get their bikes repaired at the same time? Even a bicycle STORE wouldn't have that many people in it at once. Accountants, lawyers, insurance agents - would have employees working from home, and would not have a flood of customers for one hour a week like a church. People just want to complain about something they are not supposed to do.
 

ilovepaydays

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(For some people) Unlikeable opinion: One of the positive things that I hope sticks after this ends is that the people stop expecting “obligatory” hand shakes, hugging, etc. from other people. There’s a lot I don’t like about this p*ndemic, but it’s been wonderful to not have to deal with this at church services as well as everywhere else.

I’m not really a germaphobe, but you’d think that the regular flu seasons would’ve gotten rid of this mentality. Not to mention the issues that’s been bought up with the “Me too” movement.......

You’re not entitled to a hug, hand shake, or any other touching with me EVER - especially if I really don’t know you that well. And yes, I’ve always felt that this was true before this p*ndemic.
 
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ballettmaus

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I've got a couple of questions regarding same-sex marriage. In her book, Harris (I think plausibly) explains why she didn't think a group of citizens had standing in the appeal of California's Proposition 8 and that the Supreme Court basically agreed.
Would anyone even have standing, even the state, to bring such a case? How is the state injured by performing same-sex marriages? (ETA: And would the party bringing the lawsuit have to prove that they have standing?)

Would Louis' proposal to leave it up to the states even work? Up until now, I always wondered how the Supreme Court can say it's unconstitutional while saying it's up to the state's. But if it's constitutional, how can any state be allowed to refuse to marry a same-sex couple? That sounds like discrimination. And doesn't a marriage need to be recognized by every state anyway? If I get married in New York and get a job offer in Iowa, don't I have to have the guarantee that my marriage is recognized there as well as I'd otherwise be at a severe disadvantage and would be discriminated against?
 
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Sparks

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I don't sit in a liquor store, I don't sit for a "little while" in a liquor store, I don't shake anyone's hand in a liquor store, other than the labels I don't read in a liquor store, I don't sing, I don't listen to a sermon and I don't pray in a liquor store and who said anything about a party?
Right. In fact where I buy wine, there is a limit on how many people can be in there at one time. That number is 7.
 

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