U.S. Supreme Court & judicial system

caseyedwards

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18,022
And not to forget the rights of LGBTQI also had to be challenged in the Supreme Court.

It is amazing to think that those rights had to be taken to the Supreme Court in the first place for them to change. A civilised and mature society should not have to do that. One of the reasons I dislike religious conservatism. Incredibly discriminatory and dangerous ideology that should not have the right to impose their moral viewpoint on the whole of society.

A friend of mine says he cannot understand why people lose their sh*t over abortion. Well if the religious conservatives stopped trying to control women's rights it would not be such an issue.
Many women believe a fetus is a person as well. Would there be a pro life movement if so many women didn’t agree?
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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21,358
Some do. But I think more than a few Senators realize that distorting the justice system into a deeply partisan arm of the executive branch is dangerous and unsustainable. They simply don't have the courage to act.

Once again both parties have made the courts into a Battleground Royale. It’s not just the Republicans.

If the Democrats had the votes to confirm a nominee in 2016, I would have considered it fair game for them to put someone else in the seat even this close to an election.

it’s not mean, it’s not dirty. it’s completely fair.

If they had the votes today to deny Trumps nominee I would consider it fair game too.

Packing the courts will be legal too but I got to say there will be nothing stopping the Republicans from adding further to the court next time they gain power. That’s a far scarier idea than what the Republicans are doing now.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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25,975
Many women believe a fetus is a person as well. Would there be a pro life movement if so many women didn’t agree?
I think you would find the majority (overall) of people in the US support the right to abortion.

However when states can create laws saying that doctors can be charged with murder for performing an abortion, don't you think that is going just a little bit too far?
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,022
I think you would find the majority (overall) of people in the US support the right to abortion.

However when states can create laws saying that doctors can be charged with murder for performing an abortion, don't you think that is going just a little bit too far?
Yes but there is the whole thing of trimesters. The further along and especially third trimester support plunges.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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21,358
They are likely to lose the Presidency. But what about their own jobs? The GOP candidates in down-ballot races? Why risk those to please a President who might lose and, even if he doesn't, he's out in 4 more years?

Who says the court is a losing issue for those Senators.

Most would waayyyy rather run on the courts than Trump.

The Republicans lost the House in 2018 but the gained spots in the Senate.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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49,913
I think you would find the majority (overall) of people in the US support the right to abortion.
According to the Pew Research Center, 61% think abortion should be legal in most circumstances (vs. illegal in most circumstances, no other choices). According to a recent Gallop poll, 79% of Americans think abortion should be legal in all circumstances and/or some circumstances.

So, yes, the majority of us do support abortion in at least some circumstances.

Also, most liberals do not consider Supreme Court justices when voting for Senators and only a small percentages of conservatives do.

But, you know, the people have spoken... :rolleyes:
 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
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27,146
He didn’t get where he is without some good political instincts.

Please. He has never had an original political thought. Everything he's done in the last 4 yrs is right out of Hitler's playbook. Did he make his followers distrust journalists? Yes. Did he make his followers distrust science? Yes. Did he convince the evangelical community to uphold him because of one issue - abortion? Yes. Does he appeal to the lowest common denominators? Yes.

I would think you would be ashamed of being associated with the thugs & absolute knuckle-draggers hate-mongers that adore Trump. But then part of my own family who profess to be Christians have their noses right up his butt too.
 

becca

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21,358
It's tough to say considering that Trump didn't really nominate any qualified judges - unless you consider bad Bar Association ratings and no trial or courtroom experience qualified.

Kavanaugh had high ratings till he was accused of gang rape.

Gorsuch was called well qualified too.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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21,358
Please. He has never had an original political thought. Everything he's done in the last 4 yrs is right out of Hitler's playbook. Did he make his followers distrust journalists? Yes. Did he make his followers distrust science? Yes. Did he convince the evangelical community to uphold him because of one issue - abortion? Yes. Does he appeal to the lowest common denominators? Yes.

I would think you would be ashamed of being associated with the thugs & absolute knuckle-draggers hate-mongers that adore Trump. But then part of my own family who profess to be Christians have their noses right up his butt too.

I have yet to cast a single Vote for the Donald and don’t plan on it.

But I am sorry people with no political instincts don’t get elected.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Kavanaugh had high ratings till he was accused of gang rape.

Gorsuch was called well qualified too.
We are talking about the hundreds of lower court justices that the Senate approved. Many of them were not qualified.

But I am sorry people with no political instincts don’t get elected.
I'm sorry, but that's naive.
 

Polaris

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1,261
Please. He has never had an original political thought. Everything he's done in the last 4 yrs is right out of Hitler's playbook. Did he make his followers distrust journalists? Yes. Did he make his followers distrust science? Yes. Did he convince the evangelical community to uphold him because of one issue - abortion? Yes. Does he appeal to the lowest common denominators? Yes.

I would think you would be ashamed of being associated with the thugs & absolute knuckle-draggers hate-mongers that adore Trump. But then part of my own family who profess to be Christians have their noses right up his butt too.

I believe McConnell is eminence gris and the actual power behind the throne.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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25,975
I have yet to cast a single Vote for the Donald and don’t plan on it.

But I am sorry people with no political instincts don’t get elected.
One of the reasons people say why they voted for Trump was because he wasn't a politician and didn't behave like one. They actually liked that about him. Not a good idea to generalise.
 

becca

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21,358
One of the reasons people say why they voted for Trump was because he wasn't a politician and didn't behave like one. They actually liked that about him. Not a good idea to generalise.

Once again I didn’t say he had political experience. Political instinct is being able to put your pulse on the electorate. It doesn’t mean you will be able to govern well.

Bill Clinton had way better instinct then his wife for example and I hear he was ignored in 2016.

Trumps gut/instinct told him to capitalize on people’s tiredness of politicians and political correctness.

You don’t have to like the man you don’t have to think he is a competent President but He is good at capitalizing on moods.

And Bernie agrees with me.
 
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becca

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21,358
That video was from Nov 2016. I wonder what he thinks now.

Political instincts don’t equal good person.Or a good leader it just means your good at finding ways to get power. It doesn’t mean you will use them well.

it’s pretty impressive to have literally no political experience and convince a large part of the electorate to vote you as President.

It takes some talent for politics. You might not like him and he may not use it for good. But...
 
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Japanfan

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25,269
He didn’t get where he is without some good political instincts.

The travesty and tragedy that is **** in the US is largely on him.

I don't know if he even has any political instincts, or business instincts. He got his start when daddy gave him $1 million (IIRC) and since then, has had other people do much of his work for him. As has been pointed out repeatedly, all he cares about is his image and his power.

Plus, he is good at being a bully and throwing his (considerable) weight around.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Political instincts don’t equal good person.Or a good leader it just means your good at finding ways to get power. It doesn’t mean you will use them well.
That wasn't my argument. My argument is that he lucked into a win and then people said "well he must have good instincts." But we can see in the intervening years that he doesn't actually. If he did, he'd be playing his re-election in a very different way. But he's a 1-trick pony. A one-chord strummer. And he'll strum that chord whether it works or not.

I don't know if he even has any political instincts, or business instincts. He got his start when daddy gave him $1 million
I thought it was 2 mil. :D
 

becca

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21,358
The travesty and tragedy that is **** in the US is largely on him.

I don't know if he even has any political instincts, or business instincts. He got his start when daddy gave him $1 million (IIRC) and since then, has had other people do much of his work for him. As has been pointed out repeatedly, all he cares about is his image and his power.

Plus, he is good at being a bully and throwing his (considerable) weight around.

I never said I liked him and I am still bowled over that he convinced a lot of people he was a better choice than the experienced competent choices we Republicans had in 2016.

But he managed to convince all those folks to vote for him inspite of and maybe because of his ways.

I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t take the Hispanic, Floridian female Supreme Court option it’s likely the best political play.

She will also be easier to confirm than Barrett.

MacMadame gaining power and keeping it are two different things. I don’t think he has a lot of cards.

I also think things may have turned out differently if the virus had not happened.
 
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Japanfan

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25,269
But he managed to convince all those folks to vote for him inspite of and maybe because of his ways.

A lot of people voted not for him, but against Hillary, because she was a woman and/or a Clinton.

And a lot of folks just didn't bother to vote.

So here we are, with an out-of-control pandemic in the US and facing the real possibility that a SC with a conservative majority will overturn Roe v. Wade, pushing women's rights back about one-half century.

IMO Trump has done the opposite of MAGA.

If anyone if familiar with the legal procedures that would be involved I'd appreciate learning them. Hillary said the Demos should throw every procedural challenge they could at the SC - what would those be?
 

becca

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21,358
A lot of people voted not for him, but against Hillary, because she was a woman and/or a Clinton.

And a lot of folks just didn't bother to vote.

So here we are, with an out-of-control ********* in the US and facing the real possibility that a SC with a conservative majority will overturn Roe v. Wade, pushing women's rights back about one-half century.

IMO Trump has done the opposite of MAGA.

If anyone if familiar with the legal procedures that would be involved I'd appreciate learning them. Hillary said the Demos should throw every procedural challenge they could at the SC - what would those be?

Saying someone has good political instincts doesn’t mean they would be good at actually running the country.

My understanding virus numbers are going down here.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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22,705
I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t take the Hispanic, Floridian female Supreme Court option it’s likely the best political play.

She will also be easier to confirm than Barrett.

Is she the nutbag who said that the separation of church and state should be dismantled and that she wanted to make the US into a "Kingdom of God", or was that one of his other horrifying potential nominees?
 

MacMadame

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MacMadame gaining power and keeping it are two different things.
Which is kind of my point. I think of Bill Clinton as someone who has good political instincts. He's managed to win multiple offices and was a 2 term president. I think of Trump as someone who lucked out and barely eeked out a win. Once.
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
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23,150
Which is kind of my point. I think of Bill Clinton as someone who has good political instincts. He's managed to win multiple offices and was a 2 term president. I think of Trump as someone who lucked out and barely eeked out a win. Once.
I listened to Cohen's interview on Maddow last week or was it two weeks ago?

He said that Trump did not want to win. It was mostly about leveraging power to make a real estate deal in Russia.

Then he won, and grabbed the power.
Trump is not smart, he is just mafia like enough to be mob like in his behavior/actions.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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He said that Trump did not want to win.
Other people have said this too.

Btw, to add to my original thoughts, Hillary Clinton is someone who does not have good political instincts. Yet she has managed to get elected as a Senator from NY. Twice. So just getting elected does not mean you have good political instincts.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
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25,269
Many women believe a fetus is a person as well. Would there be a pro life movement if so many women didn’t agree?

Fortunately the determination of women's rights to reproductive choice was not based on what many women and men believe. At least in almost all western developed nations - in the US that choice is being challenged.

If the newly comprised Supreme Court chooses to overturn Roe v. Wade, it will put women back half a century in terms of rights and make the US a regressive nation. This could tacitly endorse discrimination against women on various grounds.

Unfortunately - and as pro-life fails to recognize - making abortion illegal will not stop abortion. It will only stop safe, legal abortion. The harm done to women having illegal abortions was part of the reason it was legalized in the first place. :wuzrobbed
 
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