U.S. Protests - There's Something Happening Here

DORISPULASKI

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But why does it need a cop to do that? Teachers and counselors can and do do those things.
Because they don't and never have.

Teachers interact with kids as a group. I had some teachers that were good teachers, and some that were n' t, but I never told a teacher I was being physically abused at home, nor that there was a pedophile teacher that all the kids knew about but no one did anything about. Teachers are often seen as part of a solid front-Them.

And yet some teachers I thought of as friendly. And yet I would never have told one anything important about my life. I think it was perhaps the lack of easily accessible one on one interaction?

Guidance counselors in the schools I have been involved with ranged from useless to downright damaging, overpaid functionaries who never left their offices. Neither my kids nor I ever took a problem to a guidance counselor. The counselor was there for the convenience of teachers, not for students.

I think the key here is the person who is (or is not) an SRO must be placed to interact with kids individually and outside the formality of being behind a desk?
 

MacMadame

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All of these anecdotes are nice. But the data tells a different story. SROs were put in schools to make them safer and they don't do that. They also make school less safe for BIPOC. Even in my city where people say how nice the SROs are, they are committing violence on the non-white/non-Asian kids and arresting them at higher rates.

It's like cops. Whenever people complain about cops being racist, people say "not all cops." But the stats say, yes, all cops. Because the institution is the problem, not the individuals.

Not one thing posted here is something that only a police officer can do, btw, or requires police officer training.
 

DORISPULASKI

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Yes, someone could fill the same function without being a police officer- but that is what I suggested several posts back.

I would be fine with firing the desk bound counselor to pay for this person, too.
 

MacMadame

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I would be fine with firing the desk bound counselor to pay for this person, too.
Great idea! Or hire a counselor whose job it is to actually counsel on mental health issues. In our local HS, though, all the counselors are basically college counselors. They don't do actually mental health counseling, at least not in our experience (and the experience of the young people in my group).
 

Dobre

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We had a wonderful counselor in the first school I taught in. (Kids loved to go talk to her. This is both because she was amazing & experienced & because she had candy;)). The counselor in the school where I grew up is pretty magnificent also. She is young but has a natural gift & is really coming along in her organizational lesson skills as well. With the exception of the first counselor in the school where I worked, I have never thought of going to the school counselor for a staff-related issue. (I remember the first one helped me with filing a child abuse report). Most counselors that I know spend the vast majority of their time with kids.

But most are spread way too thin today. Most work in multiple buildings and, therefore, often aren't available when kids need them. I also had one tell me that she had to keep herself from delving into helping a child with trauma from his past because that wasn't what she was supposed to focus on??? WTH? I hope that was not a reflection of a shift in how school counselors are being trained now. The child could not adequately function at all in the school environment or with peers because of all the *(&! from his past. It needed to be dealt with.

Counselors are very vital for schools, IMO. But I don't see why it has to be either/or. I doubt we would have SROs in schools if there was not a separate source of funding that was making them available. (Perhaps they serve very different roles in elementary schools vs. high schools? It seems that many people have had negative experiences as well. I've no first-hand experience from with this program at the middle or high school level).

All of these anecdotes are nice.

Not an anecdote. Experience & real people. Schools function on these things.
 
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skatingguy

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There will be no "Democrat policy". The Democrat Socialists will eat Biden alive and actually be the ones in charge. He will repeat everything they feed him. Democrat Socialist policies will be the policies forced upon us, if Biden wins. God help us.
Yes, that makes sense that the politician that has been a corporate centrist for decades, and has represented the most corporate state will be a pushover to the socialists, sure. :rolleyes:
 

Artistic Skaters

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Black community leaders are urging local protesters to shift the focus of demonstrations back to the Black Lives Matter movement and away from what has become a largely “white spectacle.”

Standing in front of a large banner bearing an image of Rep. John Lewis, the Black civil rights icon who died last week, the Rev. E.D. Mondainé, president of the Portland branch of the NAACP, told protesters “the focus has been moved from where it is supposed to be and made to be a spectacle, a debacle.”
The Portland NAACP has repeatedly denounced the actions of federal forces in Portland but has also criticized “mostly white anarchists” for inciting violence during the protests. Much of the national scrutiny in recent weeks has centered on the melee that erupts nightly after small groups of demonstrators begin a cat-and-mouse game with law enforcement.
 

demetriosj

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Yes, that makes sense that the politician that has been a corporate centrist for decades, and has represented the most corporate state will be a pushover to the socialists, sure. :rolleyes:

That may well be, but he doesn't have all of his faculties anymore.
 

genevieve

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I had to look up what an SRO was. :eek: Police officers have no business being in schools.

And, sadly, the article about the Portland protests has it right.
 

PrincessLeppard

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But why does it need a cop to do that? Teachers and counselors can and do do those things.

They certainly can, in between all the other crap that we are tasked with, sure. Our school doesn't have the number of counselors it should for our population and one is useless (they try, but...) and the other is overworked. I would love it if the person wasn't a cop, but as it stands, the one we have is really good with the students. His salary is mostly covered by the police department. We couldn't afford to hire someone to do what he does. It's not ideal, but it works in my school. (Remember, I teach in a smaller town, not a big city.)
 

genevieve

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They certainly can, in between all the other crap that we are tasked with, sure. Our school doesn't have the number of counselors it should for our population and one is useless (they try, but...) and the other is overworked. I would love it if the person wasn't a cop, but as it stands, the one we have is really good with the students. His salary is mostly covered by the police department. We couldn't afford to hire someone to do what he does. It's not ideal, but it works in my school. (Remember, I teach in a smaller town, not a big city.)
Can you say more about the salary part? I was under the impression that schools pay the officers - is it something that comes out of state/city budget? Feels like this would be entwined in the Defund the Police movement - wherever those dollars are coming from, how do we shift them to fund, say, actual counselors? This is a long-term questions, obv not going to solve the immediate situation.
 

PrincessLeppard

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I think the police department pays half and the school pays a quarter and a grant covers the rest. I can look into it more.

I don't know how it works in other places.
 

Cachoo

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Joe misspeaks, and Joe says stupid stuff. It's not new, and just like the stories about Trump suffering from dementia are stupid comedy, same with the stories about Biden.
I’m not sure the Trumpalos want to take this tact with the number of times Trump had lied, misspoke, made wacky generalizations and sounded downright nuts. Just this morning I saw his speech when he talked of those who fought on the American side during the Revolutionary War capturing the airports. Ooookkkkkaaayyy. (Slowly step away from the POTUS.) :scream:
 

MacMadame

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I think the police department pays half and the school pays a quarter and a grant covers the rest. I can look into it more.

I don't know how it works in other places.
In our town the school pays half and the city pays the other half.

And policing takes up 40% of our City budget.

SROs came into schools in reaction to school shootings. They don't actually do anything about that according to data but now that they are there, people act like having armed officers in school is normal. It is not.

ETA also people always tell me it's working in their area. They say that in Fremont. Tell stories about what a great guy their SRO is. But if you look at the stats, they are disproportionately arresting BIPOC. I would challenge those who think it's working in their area to look up the stats on disciplinary actions and arrests and see if that is really true.
 
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Dobre

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A daily record from the Portland Protests:


There are also a whole bunch of other links related to the protest movement in Portland here on a designated page from Literary Arts.


I've not had time to read any but the story linked at the top yet. Below the initial stories & interviews on the literary arts page, there are a number of articles addressing actions for reform that different people or organizations are advocating for. Here is a direct link to one of them:

All of the Proposed Police Reforms Facing Portland City Council
 

genevieve

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My neighborhood is currently erupting. The ban on using mace/tear gas was lifted this week, and the cops have been very aggressive at times, spraying people point blank in the face and lots of rubber bullets fired. It's going to be a long night.
 

MacMadame

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I read that article about how the protests in Portland need to go back to being about BLM but I don't think we can allow Federal mercenaries to just go about violating people's constitutional rights unanswered. Sometimes there are two problems that need to be addressed at once.
 

Artistic Skaters

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It sounds like the main complaint of the NAACP is with the anarchists and late night arsonists more so than the peaceful protestors addressing the federal issues. Those are the people who are monopolizing the media headlines making it all about the theatrics and bad tactics of what they are doing rather than the actual issues.

There is now a Wall of Vets showing up at the protests in addition to the Wall of Moms and Wall of Dads. The Wall of Vets seems like they are really working to keep the focus on BLM.
 

MacMadame

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I don't know what to do about anarchists. Telling them they are sowing anarchy is the same as saying "Good job!" I think they will be there as long as the Feds are there so a way to deal with it all does have to be found.
 

demetriosj

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genevieve

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There is now a Wall of Vets showing up at the protests in addition to the Wall of Moms and Wall of Dads. The Wall of Vets seems like they are really working to keep the focus on BLM.
Wall of Moms has been doing a pretty good job of turning over their leadership to women of color. They seem to have learned from the mistakes of Pantsuit Nation. But the images that are being circulated the most are still of white women.

Here's another good article about the movement in Portland: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/opinion/sunday/portland-protests-white.html

Lots of arrests in last night's Seattle protests, but this morning seems calm.
 

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