U.S. Protests - There's Something Happening Here

demetriosj

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So, is that what they are helping with in Portland and Seattle? Where was this concern months ago? Years ago? Wonder why it’s happening now? Hmmmmm....

Hmmmmmmmm..........Maybe because currently (past 50-plus days) a group of moronic punks are destroying and defacing buildings in Portland and trying to burn down and destroy the courthouse, a Federal building?
 

MacMadame

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I agree that Trump's goal was not to have the faces of suburbia show up on the protest line. Last I read, he was hoping to cater to that demographic.
And why he keeps referring to the demonstrators as "antifa" even though they aren't.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Hmmmmmmmm..........Maybe because currently (past 50-plus days) a group of moronic punks are destroying and defacing buildings in Portland and trying to burn down and destroy the courthouse, a Federal building?
Yet the feds in Portland are also detaining peaceful protestors without cause and putting bags over their heads and taking them to unknown interrogation locations. Then in their spare time they are beating Naval Academy veterans for no reason and breaking their hands. And last night they tear-gassed the mayor which I'm sure they aimed to do. Head of Homeland Security was outraged this morning on CBS because the mayor dared to stand and speak to people wearing black outfits. Half my clothes are black and it has nothing to do with protests.

Baltimore and Philadelphia are doing some proactive planning of their own to get ready in case the "proactive detentions" by feds which have been discussed by DHS's Ted Wolf the past couple days come to their cities:
We will not wait for a lawsuit to be filed. Should Trump send federal agents who engage in the same illegal vigilante activities, unlawfully assaulting and kidnapping people, they will face criminal charges from our offices. The authority of city officials to prosecute federal law enforcement officials is clear. While 28 U.S. Code § 1442 provides that federal law enforcement officers may remove such charges to federal court in limited circumstances, it does not stop the local prosecution. We do not believe that the agents in Portland came close to meeting the standard required to prevent local prosecution, and officers exhibiting such behavior in our cities are similarly unlikely to meet this threshold.

Local authorities have the power to initiate an arrest and prosecution. Under our authority to defer prosecutions, we could hold off on proceeding until after the November election. Obtaining cooperation and evidence from federal authorities would presumably revert to pre-Trump norms under a new administration. In the meantime, local prosecutors would have the authority to subpoena individuals and make them appear before a grand jury. Finally, these crimes would be offenses against the residents of our respective states — not federal offenses — and, therefore, the president would have no capacity to pardon those we might prosecute. All of this is to say, we will not stand idly by while the president illegally turns loose paramilitary forces to commit criminal acts and violate the constitutional rights of innocent Americans for the purpose of energizing his base and improving his poll numbers.
 

Dobre

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This is an interesting article. If I'm interpreting correctly, it is by a reporter from Portland who has also worked as a foreign correspondent in Brazil & Venezuela.

The Battle of Portland: Trump's escalating tactics against protesters are backfiring in Oregon



"I’ve been a foreign correspondent for two decades and am used to paramilitary police and citizens battling it out — but that was in the streets of troubled countries like Brazil or Venezuela, not in my hometown. I have been documenting how repressive regimes around the world work — for my newsletter, the Authoritarianism Project — but I never expected to bring that story home."


"It’s worth comparing the treatment of protesters in Portland with those in other cities. In Lansing, Mich., anti-lockdown protesters carried rifles into the state Capitol and menaced legislators in session, without any police response at all. Militia groups, freelance gunmen and Bikers for Trump have threatened BLM protesters everywhere from Bethel, Ohio, to Spokane, Wash. Police departments rarely do anything unless shots are fired, a deference not extended to the Mom Wall, where I saw federal agents beat unarmed women in bicycle helmets just for refusing to move."


And why he keeps referring to the demonstrators as "antifa" even though they aren't.
Well, I think some are in Portland, based on this & one other article I read this week. And then a lot of demonstrators are not and are from many other walks of life. (Obviously, the president isn't troubled by painting every protestor in the U.S. with one brush).
 

BittyBug

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For every person who falls for Trump's "law and order" ploy, I think there will be at least one person if not more than one for whom it will grossly backfire. Here we have Tom Ridge saying that DHS was not founded to be the president's personal militia. Tom Ridge. And he's not alone. Lincoln Project, Republicans Voting Against Trump, George Will. These aren't Republicans who are going to sit out the election and not vote at all - they are actively campaigning for Biden.
 

MacMadame

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Well, I think some are in Portland, based on this & one other article I read this week. And then a lot of demonstrators are not and are from many other walks of life. (Obviously, the president isn't troubled by painting every protestor in the U.S. with one brush).
They may be coming out now to battle the feds but generally, they don't come out just to protest. They come out to beat up on fascists. So all these times when Trump and his minions were blaming everything on antifa, there was no evidence they were involved and their reports even said so. (As was published in several newspapers.)
 

Artistic Skaters

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U.S. District Judge Michael H. Simon has temporarily curbed the use of force by federal officers deployed to Portland, restricting their interactions with legal observers and journalists observing nightly protests against police violence.

On Thursday afternoon, Simon issued a temporary restraining order on officers from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the U.S. Marshals Service sent to Portland to guard federal buildings. The restrictions will last for two weeks. The judge is still considering a longer-lasting injunction against federal law enforcement.
The new restrictions for federal officers are nearly identical to the limits already placed on Portland police. Federal officers are barred from arresting, threatening to arrest or using physical force against someone who they should “reasonably know” is a journalist or a legal observer unless they have probable cause to believe that person has committed a crime. Journalists and observers are also not required to follow orders to disperse nor can a federal officer tell them to stop documenting the protest.

One difference between the two orders: If a federal officer intentionally violates the order, they would not be protected under the doctrine of qualified immunity, a legal principle that often protects officers in police brutality lawsuits.
 

b-man

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Question for anyone: do we have any FSU posters who live in Portland? I'm really sick of hearing the White House make idiotic claims about "violence, chaos and anarchy in Portland," as McNinny did this morning.

FTR, back in June there were NO riots in Washington DC. There were some broken windows and some opportunistic looting. No one should be picking up this administration's exaggerated, false depictions of the protests.
You can watch the video every night on Fox news.
 

caseyedwards

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I don’t get what the democrats policy is going to be! Allow protesters to burn down anything they want or there won’t be anything burned down while a democrat with right policies is president.
 

genevieve

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The Washington Post is reporting that Customs and Border Patrol agents are being sent to Seattle. :yikes:

Are there ongoing protests in Seattle?
Yes, but not with the same focus as a few weeks ago. There have been more BLM-focused protests against ICE, but this week there is also more anti-corporate destruction of property that feels more like the usual Seattle anrchist MO than true support of BLM, and I'm sure that's what got Seattle back on 45's radar.


I don't think the coverage of what's happening in the PNW is going to change anyone's mind about who they are voting for, but both my hardcore liberal mom and my GF's Trump-supporting parents are convinced Seattle is a war zone right now.
 

BlueRidge

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thanks @genevieve I wondered as I hadn't heard anything about Seattle, but I'm as east coast as you can get. ;)

So far as I'm hearing there is zero going on in DC in the way of street protests. There is focus on the city's budget and on the November election where we have an at large council seat that is competitive. In my ward we voted in the primary for a challenger who was being attacked before the George Floyd protests erupted for being in favor of defunding the police. The election was June 2 and it started looking like the attacks by the incumbent was campaigning in favor of the challenger by the time we got to the election and she won going away.

I digress, but I think that city council hearings and electoral campaigns are where the action is right now, not endless street protests after dark.
 

demetriosj

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I don’t get what the democrats policy is going to be! Allow protesters to burn down anything they want or there won’t be anything burned down while a democrat with right policies is president.

There will be no "Democrat policy". The Democrat Socialists will eat Biden alive and actually be the ones in charge. He will repeat everything they feed him. Democrat Socialist policies will be the policies forced upon us, if Biden wins. God help us.
 

MacMadame

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I digress, but I think that city council hearings and electoral campaigns are where the action is right now, not endless street protests after dark.
My group is working towards a school board meeting next week to get rid of SROs in the schools. We only need one more board member to agree and they are gone! We're also working at the city level but that's been a harder slog.
 

BlueRidge

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My group is working towards a school board meeting next week to get rid of SROs in the schools. We only need one more board member to agree and they are gone! We're also working at the city level but that's been a harder slog.

Good work!
 

DORISPULASKI

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Good work!
The parents in our group are of two minds about SROs. A good one, which they had is a big help to kids, and stopped a lot of bullying. But a bad one is School to Prison pipeline.

I think maybe there should be a school resource person, but they should not be part of the police department?
 

MacMadame

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I think maybe there should be a school resource person, but they should not be part of the police department?
So our school board got a presentation on what the SROs do and it was such a load of nonsense. For example, SROs give presentations on vaping in the classroom! Okay, shouldn't a doctor be doing that? They are mentors! So are teachers. The school is literally full of possible mentors. They give staff training on what do to in a school shooting. So they can't ask the police to send someone to do a one-day training? Why do they have to pay an FT salary to someone to get that?

And so forth and so on.

In the meantime, there are schools with literally no FT counselors on staff. None.

Parents (of the kids who don't get beat up and arrested) will tell you that their SRO is a great guy and so helpful to the kids. Yet our stats show that a disproportionate number of BIPOC kids are arrested by them. And many kids have absolutely no relationship with their SRO at all. He's just a guy who when they are running 1 minute late to class sends them to the office for a late slip making them 10 minutes late for class.

I think we don't need SROs at all no matter where they come from. We need more mental health counselors.

ETA and why are we arresting 15-year-olds anyway? Talking back to your teacher shouldn't escalate into being arrested under any circumstances.
 

Dobre

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The SRO that I know the best from a local elementary school talks to the kids about bike safety, bullying, and avoiding violence. He & the police department provide free helmets for kids in the community. He helps with running lockdown drills and helps train the kids & teachers on how to keep classrooms safe in the case of an intruder. And I am fairly certain that he helped get rid of a pedophile that had been hired for an upper elementary teaching position and was caught in a compromising situation in a different community. He also eats lunch with the kids, offers to fill in for teachers or substitutes if they need a few moments, and helped mentor a high school graduate Latina girl who was interested in joining the police force. (She is also now working as an SRO).

The SRO that I know from another district is an older lady--a grandmother actually. She teaches in every classroom in the district. Fire safety, learning your address & identifying information in the case of a kidnapping, anti-bullying: those are some of the lessons that come to mind off the top of my head. She works with grades K-5. I don't know if she goes into the middle & high schools.

I certainly agree that counselors are vital for school environments and that they are not funded well enough in school buildings. I doubt that the funding is coming from the same direct pot, and I don't think these two jobs overlap that much. But I do believe that every building should have a full-time counselor. Counselors do teach to classrooms, but I think often the most important aspect of their job is being available one-on-one for kids who need serious help. Unfortunately, if the counselor is only in the building one or two days a week, that lifeline is often not available when needed.
 

DORISPULASKI

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I think what the SRO does depends on where you live

It is a relatively new position. There was none when I was young, and none when my sons were in school.

Connecticut is scarred by the shadow of Sandy Hook.


The above sounds more like the SRO the parents in our town's Police and City Task Force described:
. In some communities, they function in the role of ombudsman to create a positive impression of the police force. Depending upon the community's wishes, some SROs (especially if there is more than one officer in a large school) spend time giving safety instruction, counseling students and being a mentor and role model to the students. A well trained SRO, who was well liked and trusted by the students, could have a significant impact on behavior and especially alcohol and drug behavior.

What a SRO is NOT is a school disciplinarian. If a school incident is a possible law enforcement violation, the SRO can be contacted to determine if law enforcement action is appropriate. An SRO does not do things like lunchroom or hall duty.

He was a rookie, trained specifically as an SRO.
 

MacMadame

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>they function in the role of ombudsman to create a positive impression of the police force.<<

I can see why the police want that but I fail to see what value it brings to the students or the school.
 

DORISPULASKI

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The parents are most interested in the mentor thing. The kid goes to the SRO when they are bullied, when there is a pedophile teacher, when they are having problems. Apparently our SRO has been steering kids to Al Anon if there are addicted parents, or to addiction groups, which have HIPAA nondisclosure, if the kids themselves have a problem. The purpose of the program is to keep kids out of jail, which is not the way at all that things worked in Pawling schools, where I last lived.

And if a cop is or becomes comfortable with the kids, I would think that is a generally good thing.
 

MacMadame

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The parents are most interested in the mentor thing. The kid goes to the SRO when they are bullied, when there is a pedophile teacher, when they are having problems.
But why does it need a cop to do that? Teachers and counselors can and do do those things.
 

KCC

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The SRO position at the little school where I volunteer has been seen as positive. Kids & parents love him, discipline seems to be appropriately addressed (early, before situations got out of hand) and the stressed/overworked teachers feel very supported. Being a small school (~30 students per grade) in rural Idaho, everyone knows everyone and their family situations well, so it is a little easier to head off the biggest disasters. Maybe his role could be filled some other way, but there, the SRO seemed to work well with our school's culture and needs. Doesn't hurt that the two guys I knew in that position were top notch when working with both kids and adults.
 

Dobre

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But why does it need a cop to do that? Teachers and counselors can and do do those things.

Where I live, I see two valuable goals. 1. That the police get to know the kids in their communities from an early age and are able to see minority students as individuals rather than having their main experience with people from an ethnic group be contact with criminals. 2. Kids need to be able to feel safe asking for help from law enforcement. Many kids witness criminal behavior, violence in the home, violence in their friends' homes, sexual exploitation, etc. They need to feel that they can report to authorities & tell the truth. (Right now, with *********, we are seeing what happens when people do not feel safe speaking with authorities. Many migrant & Latino families here don't want to report their contacts to contact tracers).

The key, of course, is that all of these kids & citizens must actually be safe reporting their concerns to law enforcement. If law enforcement is not helping to protect citizens equally & without prejudice, then we have a nightmare.
 
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