U.S. Pairs 2018 - News & Updates, Part VIII

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Spun Silver

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OH MY GOD

I WAS WATCHING the video just now


OMG....

Horrific...

She seemed unconscious at first. Oh man.. prayers going out to them....
I had no idea until I saw your posts. How horrible. Sometimes I really don't understand how skaters can be allowed to continue after such scary falls. It's not like it was even an important event! But yes, sending up prayers for her.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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I had no idea until I saw your posts. How horrible. Sometimes I really don't understand how skaters can be allowed to continue after such scary falls. It's not like it was even an important event! But yes, sending up prayers for her.

Health comes first.

I am having flashbacks to Totmianina / Marinin, and the collision between Hanyu and Han at the Cup of China.

I think the referee should have blown the whistle immediately, and not allowed them to continue.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Health comes first.

I am having flashbacks to Totmianina / Marinin, and the collision between Hanyu and Han at the Cup of China.

I think the referee should have blown the whistle immediately, and not allowed them to continue.

I have to agree. I mean as soon as you see a woman being dropped on her head, ref should blow the whistle. At that point nothings important anymore but health.
 

rhapsody

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That referee should be fired for not stopping the program.

And someone needs to educate Tim that the last thing you do after someone injures their neck is to MOVE THEIR DAMN HEAD. Especially since she seemed unconscious on the ground... I thought that'd be common sense but apparently not?

Hope Ashley gets better soon.
 

wickedwitch

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That referee should be fired for not stopping the program.

And someone needs to educate Tim that the last thing you do after someone injures their neck is to MOVE THEIR DAMN HEAD. Especially since she seemed unconscious on the ground... I thought that'd be common sense but apparently not?

Hope Ashley gets better soon.
I give Tim a pass. I know if I were in his place, I would be panicking and not thinking rationally.
 

Rukia

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I mean educating people is never bad, but I will definitely give Tim a pass because I'm sure he was out of his mind scared. She was pretty clearly knocked out. The real problem is with the referee who should have stopped them. I hope Ashley is ok.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Man I don't know why I'm doing this but I keep re-watching the program. I guess because I was in attendance for Tatiana and Max in 2004 at SA for almost the exact same thing I'm still haunted by it.

Ashley was definitely unconscious it looks like for about one or two seconds. It's not until Timothy tries to lift her head up she regains consciousness. What's more disturbing for me is that when she stands up she is clearly dazed and then they go on about the program. I don't know why but this really affects me and makes me sad to watch this.

If the referee is there to blow the whistle in a case like this then there needs to be the Ashley rule going forward or something. I love this team and I hate to see these pairs accidents happen to anyone.
 

starrynight

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Putting the neck brace on her after they finished skating the program seems a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

I guess the skaters themselves are so disorientated that they don't know what else to do except keep skating. I think that a time out should be called and the skaters assessed for fitness to continue when really bad falls like this happen.
 

barbarafan

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I have to agree. I mean as soon as you see a woman being dropped on her head, ref should blow the whistle. At that point nothings important anymore but health.
Totally have to agree....Just watched the vid...Direct Hit...And she was definitely seeing stars.
NEW RULE....the second a head hits the ice the whistle is blown...practice or competition a med team checks them out. If they test and say skater is ok they proceed with just 1 point deduction for fall...orrrr they leave they the ice via medic.

These silly rules of you can stop but you only have x number of seconds to check out or penalized are nuts. When you are in shock that is the only thing which will come to mind...have to go on.have to go on.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Dang... heres another, this one calls out the referee. Also, a tweet from Jackie Wong.

Ashley, I think, is unconscious in the photo.

American Figure Skater Crashes Headfirst Into The Ice, Referee Allows Her To Continue

https://deadspin.com/american-figure-skater-crashes-head-first-into-the-ice-1830950876

This made for jarring viewing, even if it was just athletes continuing their program as they’re trained to do, but it was abundantly clear that someone should’ve intervened and halted the program so that Cain could receive proper treatment on the ice. That someone, it turns out, was the referee.

Jackie Wong: Please, figure skating referees, you have a job to do. Putting skaters in danger is not one of those jobs. #GoldenSpin

Twitter discussion: https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1071157458662383616

Interesting, one of the posts says how the referee should have stopped GP France when the sign fell on the ice too. I remember watching that. Was it the Korean team who almost jumped right on it??? Whats up with these asleep at the wheel refs?
 
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DimaToe

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A fine should be placed on the hosting federation for the lack of action from the “referee” that’s the only way this very seniors issue will get any sort of attention. It’s not ok that Cain/LeDuc were allowed to skate after that injury occurred.
 

Karen-W

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A fine should be placed on the hosting federation for the lack of action from the “referee” that’s the only way this very seniors issue will get any sort of attention. It’s not ok that Cain/LeDuc were allowed to skate after that injury occurred.
But the referee is an ISU official, not a host federation official. Really, the ISU needs to seriously examine it's procedures for these type of situations.
 

RoseRed

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The refs have been had at several events this year. At one of the JGPs, a child threw a plushy on the ice during Bashynska/Beaumont's FD, and they had to dodge it during the skate. Ref didn't blow the whistle, and they are super young at their first JGP, so they don't know what to do. And I think it was white, so if they hadn't noticed it it could have been nasty (IIRC one of their lifts when right near it). Then at IdF you have Lu/Mitrofanov who are a young team in their first GP season, and the ref doesn't blow the whistle even when there's a man on the ice. Then this.
 
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ZilphaK

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That program should have been stopped, as should any program any time an athlete's head hits the ice, whether or not they are knocked out. There should be an immediate concussion protocol started. At practice, any coach in attendance who sees a head smack should be required to pull that athlete off the ice and only return with doctor's clearance. It can takes minutes to days for concussion symptoms to show up, and a second fall during that time could be catastrophic. Worse yet, there could be a brain bleed which could be deadly in hours.
 

chachacha

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I am appalled that there was no effort to stop the program, to check Ashley out, nothing... So many mistakes were made and it could have ended up so, so much worse.
Totally agree! Not only the referee failed but the Coach is also responsible and should be just as accountable including USFSA. Shame on them for not making an effort to stop the program.
 

Jammers

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This is the most ridiculous thing i have seen in skating since Hanyu skated his LP at COC with a bandage on his head. If coaches won't do anything to protect their skaters then the judges need to step in. Skaters will always try to push through but they are not thinking about their health at that moment and someone needs to protect them from themselves.
 

Moustaffask8r

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That referee should be fired for not stopping the program.

And someone needs to educate Tim that the last thing you do after someone injures their neck is to MOVE THEIR DAMN HEAD. Especially since she seemed unconscious on the ground... I thought that'd be common sense but apparently not?

Hope Ashley gets better soon.
Totally agree with you... head injury means no touching the person, no moving... but poor Tim I guess he knew that but nerves can make you do crazy thing! Referee is mostly to be blamed! he should have blown the whistle right away! Hope Ashley is ok
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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With all of the focus on Ashley, I hope someone is looking after Tim LeDuc as well. He looked absolutely devastated after their performance. Even though he was comforting Ashley and making sure she was doing okay, my heart broke for him too. What an awful thing to have to take on board.

In spite of the fact that the top teams in the world make what they do look easy, one can never underestimate the dangers involved in skating.
 

chachacha

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This is going to be controversial, but what the heck:

Why didn't the coaches stop the program? I don't care what the rules are, someone falls like that, the rules of a skating competition should be just about at the bottom of your concerns.
Totally agree! The Coaches are just as responsible as the referee! They should have immediately walked on the ice to stop them from continuing.
 

2sk8

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This is the most ridiculous thing i have seen in skating since Hanyu skated his LP at COC with a bandage on his head. If coaches won't do anything to protect their skaters then the judges need to step in. Skaters will always try to push through but they are not thinking about their health at that moment and someone needs to protect them from themselves.
I so agree with all these posts- what were the officials thinking? But... The coaches? They are her parents, right? Or, was someone else there for this event?
 
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ZilphaK

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In their defense, the coaches were quite a ways away from the fall. By the time they could run around to the officials or get the attention of the skaters, valuable time is lost. It is the referee’s job to blow the whistle. The referee should be retrained.

I figured that might have been the case, and makes sense.

But along with referees being retrained, I think there needs to be a retraining of everyone in the sport. On one hand, I get it: figure skaters are barely considered athletes by a lot of people; figure skating not considered a sport. There's often a push, both internally and externally, for our skaters to "soldier on" through injuries (and this is sometimes especially true of women in all sports; women have both higher pain tolerance and are constantly told they aren't as talented/skilled/tough as men, so have something to prove).

But as with awareness of eating disorders, muscle and joint injuries, I think there needs to be an overall change in the skating culture to recognize that these kids are attempting difficult, dangerous skills, and skaters, parents, coaches and officials need to be taught just what the dangers are in a potential head hit and the dangers in cumulative effects of sub-concussive hits.

Studies are now showing that it's not so much even diagnosed concussions, but all those "little head hits" over time that add up to big problems. Hockey skaters as young as 17 are showing signs of CTE; this is talked about a lot in football and hockey. Some in soccer. Not enough in skating, not by a long shot. I think that's part of the overall problem; there needs to be a push from ISU, USFSA and PSA to make "you hit, you sit, you quit until a doctor says you're fit" a holy mantra for all skaters, so much so that it immediately *feels* dangerous and unethical for any skater, coach, parent or ref to allow another skater to stay on the ice after a head hit or potential head hit.
 
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