U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

Stephanie

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,223
Happy for Jacob! :) Yesterday I noticed Kai Kovar was listed as the placeholder in #6 Gdansk instead of Prober on the ISU site. USFS now has Eric listed as "withdrawn 9/15" from JGP #4 in Russia on their International Assignments page. It's very unfortunate he couldn't make his JGP debut there since he will be 19 in December and this is his final season of ISU Junior eligibility (heard Prober arrived in Krasnoyarsk but something happened -- injury? -- and he WD before the SP draw :( so is not listed in the results).
Kai Kovar was the placeholder on the ISU site and Eric Prober is the placeholder on the USFS site :)

Definitely sad for Prober that he couldn't compete on the JGP. Hopefully he'll be able to get a later junior international this fall, like Golden Spin of Zagreb.
 

toddlj

Nashville 2022!
Messages
1,934
I'm glad to have a skater like Vincent to cheer for. He goes out and attempts the hardest content of any skater.... every single time. Hardly ever pops a jump or simplifies an element for safety. Rarely makes excuses or blames others. And with big risks can come big wins... or big falls... and that's exciting.

It's sort of like going to a concert; I'd much rather see the singer who sings with all her emotion to the very edge, and sometimes cracks... than someone who carefully marks, monitors every tone, and stays pleasantly within her comfort zone.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,170
If I’m not mistaken, Nathan has been successfully delivering the most difficult content since his senior years.

Sasha might be another one out there, trying 4lz combo in the 2nd half
Vincent is up there. He had the second highest BV of the 2018 Olympics LP, less than five points from Nathan, and the highest BV in the SP (and was the first to land a quad Lutz at an Olympic games since his skate order was before Jin and Aliev who also did it...I think all three should get credit for being the first). He often goes for some of the highest BVs of the men, and with the high risk sometimes comes high crashes (Worlds 2018 LP after placing 3rd in the SP; 2021 Worlds SP). Sometimes it really works out for him (Winning Junior Worlds, top 6 at the Olympics, 3rd in the 2018 Worlds, winning the bronze at 2019 Worlds, etc.). That's why it's important for a skater to work on all aspects of skating and get the respect to get GOE and PCS so you don't have to go for broke all of the time, though some skaters are just risk takers.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
25,583
And it's not an excuse. With all the hype and carry-on around him and people loudly shouting about his base value, it should not have been too much to ask to expect that he could perform the "simple" task of finishing 24th or higher in the SP so that the US could have had those three spots and not had to go through Nebelhorn at all.

Do you keep posting the same thing because you're worried we don't know what you think by now?
 

lurkz2

Active Member
Messages
114
Rarely makes excuses or blames others. And with big risks can come big wins... or big falls... and that's exciting.
Didn't want to pile on him and I do expect him to do well in Nebelhorn but after each of his 2 disastrous skates at Worlds he has put on a very long emo post mentioning an injury for the first time after being very gung-ho before his skate. I hope he stops this "excuses" habit.
 

Alexa

Well-Known Member
Messages
109
Vincent is up there. He had the second highest BV of the 2018 Olympics LP, less than five points from Nathan, and the highest BV in the SP (and was the first to land a quad Lutz at an Olympic games since his skate order was before Jin and Aliev who also did it...I think all three should get credit for being the first). He often goes for some of the highest BVs of the men, and with the high risk sometimes comes high crashes (Worlds 2018 LP after placing 3rd in the SP; 2021 Worlds SP). Sometimes it really works out for him (Winning Junior Worlds, top 6 at the Olympics, 3rd in the 2018 Worlds, winning the bronze at 2019 Worlds, etc.). That's why it's important for a skater to work on all aspects of skating and get the respect to get GOE and PCS so you don't have to go for broke all of the time, though some skaters are just risk takers.
I didn’t dispute Vincent attempted the highest BV in my comment, did I?

My comment is successful delivery of the most difficult content, not just tech content, by which I referred to trying hip hop in his Chsq. I should have added consistently to avoid any further confusion.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
36,170
I didn’t dispute Vincent attempted the highest BV in my comment, did I?

My comment is successful delivery of the most difficult content, not just tech content, by which I referred to trying hip hop in his Chsq. I should have added consistently to avoid any further confusion.
:confused:

BV I mentioned was his completed tech content that he received credit for. That was what the conversation was about, and as I thought you understood it as you mentioned Sasha attempting a 4LZ combo in the second half. I don't remember hip hop being mentioned in the string of conversations.
 

Alexa

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Messages
109
:confused:

BV I mentioned was his completed tech content that he received credit for. That was what the conversation was about, and as I thought you understood it as you mentioned Sasha attempting a 4LZ combo in the second half. I don't remember hip hop being mentioned in the string of conversations.
I went back and read again, I wasn’t talking only about BV in my original comment, I was talking about most difficult content since his senior years, and in my reply, I added I should have had”consistently” to make it clearer.

I didn’t quote any comment in my original.

As to Sasha, I was too lazy to leave out the 4lz in the 2nd half, almost all clean except 4S. I was not talking about BV. I was talking about delivery with positive GOE
 
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Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,290
My take on Vincent is that he goes way too hard early in the season, does well (minus UR trouble) and going that hard can get him in a lot of injury or overuse tiredness by the time Worlds rolls around. Let's also remember URs, particularly on bigger jumps like quads, puts a lot of pressure on your landing hip/knee/ankle is a direction it's not supposed to be going, which over time can make you more injury prone - and Vincent URs quads a lot. For that reason I'm not concerned about Nebelhorn for him.

While some here have argued nerves of steel, I would also like to remind you that his mother is (allegedly) something else. She puts a lot of pressure on him and his coaches. She finds ways to put pressure on him. I remember at Nationals in 2018 she organized a good 200+ person cheering squad to watch him. That's a lot of pressure. So even if Vincent has nerves of steel, I would be shocked if that didn't put a lot of pressure on him in big moments like Worlds and these upcoming Olympics.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,207
My take on Vincent is that he goes way too hard early in the season, does well (minus UR trouble) and going that hard can get him in a lot of injury or overuse tiredness by the time Worlds rolls around. Let's also remember URs, particularly on bigger jumps like quads, puts a lot of pressure on your landing hip/knee/ankle is a direction it's not supposed to be going, which over time can make you more injury prone - and Vincent URs quads a lot. For that reason I'm not concerned about Nebelhorn for him.

While some here have argued nerves of steel, I would also like to remind you that his mother is (allegedly) something else. She puts a lot of pressure on him and his coaches. She finds ways to put pressure on him. I remember at Nationals in 2018 she organized a good 200+ person cheering squad to watch him. That's a lot of pressure. So even if Vincent has nerves of steel, I would be shocked if that didn't put a lot of pressure on him in big moments like Worlds and these upcoming Olympics.
Maybe after years of coping with it, though, he's mastered a way to deal. He did come back to win a Bronze at Worlds 2019.
 

AJ Skatefan

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2,688
I'm sure people said there was no chance of him missing the SP at Worlds, either.

He also had a truly bad free skate at 2018 Worlds, too. Let's not pretend this is the only time he's fluffed it on the world stage or when spots were on the line.

And it's not an excuse. With all the hype and carry-on around him and people loudly shouting about his base value, it should not have been too much to ask to expect that he could perform the "simple" task of finishing 24th or higher in the SP so that the US could have had those three spots and not had to go through Nebelhorn at all.

I would like to think he shouldn't have any trouble at Nebelhorn, but he hasn't earned the right to any certainty, since he's the reason there's uncertainty at all!
So all this proves to me is that Vincent is human
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,170
My take on Vincent is that he goes way too hard early in the season, does well (minus UR trouble) and going that hard can get him in a lot of injury or overuse tiredness by the time Worlds rolls around. Let's also remember URs, particularly on bigger jumps like quads, puts a lot of pressure on your landing hip/knee/ankle is a direction it's not supposed to be going, which over time can make you more injury prone - and Vincent URs quads a lot. For that reason I'm not concerned about Nebelhorn for him.

While some here have argued nerves of steel, I would also like to remind you that his mother is (allegedly) something else. She puts a lot of pressure on him and his coaches. She finds ways to put pressure on him. I remember at Nationals in 2018 she organized a good 200+ person cheering squad to watch him. That's a lot of pressure. So even if Vincent has nerves of steel, I would be shocked if that didn't put a lot of pressure on him in big moments like Worlds and these upcoming Olympics.
But Vincent usually does better later in the season than he does in the beginning. He actually skated very well in 2018 San Jose for what he could have done and the crowd went wild for his skate as were the initial reactions, so that didn’t affect him. It wasn’t until the tech panel where people started to question if he did enough for an Olympic spot. Then at the Olympics he placed 6th. 2018 Worlds was hot/cold. Third in the SP and then dropped in the LP (like Mirai Nagasu did in 2010 Worlds where she led after the SP only to drop down later). He seemed on fire by the end of the 2018-19 season. 2019-2020 was an off season for him since he started Brown. 2020-2021 was weird for everyone with ********* and we didn’t really have a full season.
 

Brenda_Bottems

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779
Mr. Bottems and I had the pleasure of unexpectedly catching the men's long programs on Peacock. Whilst I do not like Mr. Ma's costume or hair,his natural charisma and good looks more than make up for those styling decisions. I hope for less messy performances at Nationals.

And how arousing was it to unexpectedly see Todd Eldredge in the kiss and cry? He looked positively resplendent in his leather jacket and American mask—masculinity personified.

-BB
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
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4,585
I'm going to beat Sylvia to it and post this link to an article about Jacob Sanchez. He lives in my county so I have a special interest in him (plus he's a delightful skater).

"I really look up to Nathan Chen and Jason Brown. I love [Brown's] skating," Sanchez said. "I also look up to skaters around the world like [Japan's] Yuzuru Hanyu, Nam Nguyen from Canada...and the Russian girls doing quads!"

Like many skating fans, Sanchez admires Chen's athleticism and technique and hopes his jumps can be like the "Quad King" one day. However, it's Brown's portrayal of personality and artistry that Sanchez looks to emulate.

"In 2019, for my intermediate season, I skated to 'Riverdance.' [Brown's 2014 'Riverdance' free skate] was one of my biggest inspirations for that," Sanchez explained. "It was really my inspiration for skating, too. When I saw him, I told my mom I want to be like him. I want to skate to 'Riverdance.'"
 

SkateFanBerlin

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Messages
955
Good day for Vincent. Does anyone else think he has a decent chance for singles Oly medal? He has all these 4's. They might not get the highest GOE's but they're such big scorers. Today his PCS was in the 8's. Expect that to creep up through GP season. Who could beat him? No one except for Chen and Hanyu is getting the tech scores Vincent is. Uno is lovely but not enough tech. Jin usually makes big mistakes. Kolyada, not a big enough tech score. Jason, way not big enough tech score. The new Japanese guy is still too green. Who else is there?
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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10,945
Good day for Vincent. Does anyone else think he has a decent chance for singles Oly medal? He has all these 4's. They might not get the highest GOE's but they're such big scorers. Today his PCS was in the 8's. Expect that to creep up through GP season. Who could beat him? No one except for Chen and Hanyu is getting the tech scores Vincent is. Uno is lovely but not enough tech. Jin usually makes big mistakes. Kolyada, not a big enough tech score. Jason, way not big enough tech score. The new Japanese guy is still too green. Who else is there?
IMO, Kagiyama is absolutely going to be a frontrunner for a medal, more-so than Zhou. He has the gold standard jump technique, on par with the likes of Oda. He may not always be consistent, but he hit in a big way at Worlds last year. Uno, with more consistency, will also be in the picture.

Not to say Zhou is out of it, because he's definitely not, but a strict panel with a bunch of 'q' calls or worse is going to send his GOE sinking, and that's where I think the likes of a clean Kagiyama is in better shape.
 

RoseRed

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Messages
1,950
Good day for Vincent. Does anyone else think he has a decent chance for singles Oly medal? He has all these 4's. They might not get the highest GOE's but they're such big scorers. Today his PCS was in the 8's. Expect that to creep up through GP season. Who could beat him? No one except for Chen and Hanyu is getting the tech scores Vincent is. Uno is lovely but not enough tech. Jin usually makes big mistakes. Kolyada, not a big enough tech score. Jason, way not big enough tech score. The new Japanese guy is still too green. Who else is there?
Well, he's already won a silver medal at Worlds, so I don't think he is. Vincent has only scored higher than Yuma's Worlds score once internationally, by the way, at WTT in 2019. Yuma's definitely in the mix for a medal.
 

skateboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,565
Good day for Vincent. Does anyone else think he has a decent chance for singles Oly medal? He has all these 4's. They might not get the highest GOE's but they're such big scorers. Today his PCS was in the 8's. Expect that to creep up through GP season. Who could beat him? No one except for Chen and Hanyu is getting the tech scores Vincent is. Uno is lovely but not enough tech. Jin usually makes big mistakes. Kolyada, not a big enough tech score. Jason, way not big enough tech score. The new Japanese guy is still too green. Who else is there?
I agree. Vincent's skating looks super-focused and beautiful right now, in a way I've never seen from him. And he's got all the quads Nathan has. Ice is slippery, of course... but if Vincent hits (and can avoid URs), he is a threat to anyone.
 

SkateFanBerlin

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955

olympic

Well-Known Member
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10,207
I will say this about Vincent: So many aspects of his skating have significantly improved

Better jumps with more lift, tighter rotation and speed allowing for a better chance of no carrot cake; Better edges means more speed throughout and better footwork; faster spins and much improved extension. Finally, better choreo and interpretation (if not in the class of Yuzu, there's more flow and connection these days)
 

VGThuy

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36,170
I think if Kagiyama and Zhou skate similarly, then Kagiyama deserves to be ahead. However, Zhou is no slouch and is definitely a medal contender if he skates well. The men are super competitive overall, and any sort of opening you give, and a dozen or so can pass you up. Vincent learned when you truly mess up, 24 can pass through you, especially in the SP where there are only 3 jumping passes. Screw up all three and there will definitely be twenty men who can hit at least 2/3.
 

olympic

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10,207
Is Mie Hamada responsible for Vincent's improvements? Or Lee Barkell? His overall look on the ice seemed to change around that point in time
 

layman

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Messages
354
Is Mie Hamada responsible for Vincent's improvements? Or Lee Barkell? His overall look on the ice seemed to change around that point in time
All of them helped Vincent, but I credit Lori Nichol for helping Vincent find his inner artist.

Vincent participated in some jump competitions earlier in the season. I watched the videos. When Vincent was just skating from one end of the rink to the other setting up jumps, he looked very much like the old Vincent, but when you put Vincent in a Lori Nichol program...he transforms...he starts listening to the music...and using the music to express choreographic points... he starts stretching and extending...he holds his head up in a Lori Nichol program (rather than his old tendency to look down at the Ice)...Vincent really commits to the choreography (in a Lori program). I really appreciate Lori Nichol's work with Vincent.
 

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