U.S. Ice Dance 2021-22 season news & updates

carriecmu0503

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495
I also think that at this point, Hawayek & Baker have shown us all they can show us and won’t improve significantly vis-a-vis Chock & Bates as well as the international competition. Green & Parsons are the ones who can shake things up.
Isn't this almost word-for-word what people were saying about the Shibutanis after 2015 Worlds.....?
 

PRlady

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As maybe the only person in the world who liked the Flamenco/baroque FD, and as a huge fan of both Glass and Chopin, I think H/B can be as quirky and interesting as any team out there. Their way was blocked by three fine teams since they came up from Junior and I agree now is the time to break out.
 

tony

The older, the crankier
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13,488
As someone who loudly complained about Smart/Diaz being way held up for empty programs and simplistic choreography (and honestly, Fear/Gibson to an extent, too), I have no idea why Hawayek/Baker were held down below them by such a spread, let alone at all. I don't need to be told that she isn't quite at his level, but the choreography was infinitely more intricate than the other two teams and I always liked the unpredictable patterns they came up with. RD technical issues aside, they are really quite good IMO. The other two teams had the big, GOE-happy choreographic element moments but not a whole lot otherwise.

Looking at who is left in ice dance and the unlikely return of Stepanova/Bukin anytime soon, Hawayek/Baker really should be challenging for a World medal next season. I, too, thought their Glass program was almost masterpiece-level and thought they did an amazing job choreographing that program themselves. I also was captivated by Chopin last season. I know their FD content might not have been as engaging to a general audience or even an FSU audience that almost unanimously loved Zorro, but I think they will step it up in a big way now that they won't be a clear #3 in the USA, and I wouldn't mind them staying with the more introspective styles for the FD.

And :slinkaway but I don't think Green/Parsons are anywhere near a threat to them yet.
 

RoseRed

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2,070
On the flipside, looking at the teams who ranked ahead of them this past season, I can imagine Hawayek & Baker and/or Green & Parsons moving into the top five very quickly. Among the higher-ranked teams that we know for sure are continuing, Fear & Gibson are really the only ones I can see moving up significantly. Older teams who stick around don’t hang onto the top spots forever (we already saw Gilles & Poirier slide down in the rankings this past season). Whenever Chock & Bates retire, I don’t think the U.S. is looking at a big gap between world podium contenders. That said, I totally agree that there’s no good reason for Chock & Bates to retire right now if they want to continue. And beyond H&B and G&P, the rest of the U.S. teams aren’t at the same level yet.
Agreed.

Let's say Chock/Bates don't compete next season, P/C and G/P don't compete (very plausible imo), and the Russians aren't allowed at Worlds (also very possible).

Olympics 2022
  1. Papadakis/Cizeron
  2. Sinitsina/Katsalapov
  3. Hubbell/Donohue
  4. Chock/Bates
  5. Guignard/Fabbri
  6. Stepanova/Bukin
  7. Gilles/Poirier
  8. Smart/Diaz
  9. Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen
  10. Fear/Gibson
  11. Hawayek/Baker

Worlds 2022
  1. Papadakis/Cizeron
  2. Hubbell/Donohue
  3. Chock/Bates
  4. Guignard/Fabbri
  5. Gilles/Poirier
  6. Fear/Gibson
  7. Smart/Diaz
  8. Hawayek/Baker
  9. Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen
  10. Reed/Ambrulevicius
So yeah, I don't see why you'd say there wouldn't be a US team top 4-5 if C/B retire. I'm all for C/B continuing, to be clear. But I think US dance would be fine regardless.
 

Spiralgraph

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2,623
Well you don't have to convince me about the strengths and greatness of Hawayek/Baker. They are my favorite team and have been for a few years now. I think they deserved a much higher ranking at Worlds at least top 5 or 6. I shook my head in dismay at their world ranking last season.
Realistically even without C/B competing it still would be difficult for Kaitlin and Jean-Luc to be in medal position at worlds next year. The same go for CG/MP whom I also like, but I'd like to see how G/P progress for another year before I think they might be the near equals of H/B sometime in the future.
edit!
hmmm I just read the posts after my previous one and they make a good case for H/B being in medal contention. This is ice dance and there are new rules for the coming season but I'd be thrilled if Kaitlin and Jean-Luc could be a real podium threat.
 

Trillian

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694
Looking at who is left in ice dance and the unlikely return of Stepanova/Bukin anytime soon, Hawayek/Baker really should be challenging for a World medal next season. I, too, thought their Glass program was almost masterpiece-level and thought they did an amazing job choreographing that program themselves.

Seriously, I never disliked H&B, but the Glass program was what turned me into a fan. I don’t understand why they didn’t get more love for that one, but I’m glad I’m not the only one who appreciated it. And I found the Chopin FD totally mesmerizing every time. They also show real potential to be crowd favorites as show skaters.

Maybe I’ll just dedicate the next Olympic cycle to being a full time H&B stan.
 

azcalder

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217
I'm hoping that they will be at next month's competition in Lake Placid. Cannot wait to see their new programs. If not Lake Placid, ten maybe in Norwood when Cranberry will occur from August 10th-14th.

I'm hoping that they will be at next month's competition in Lake Placid. Cannot wait to see their new programs. If not Lake Placid, ten maybe in Norwood when Cranberry will occur from August 10th-14th.
Cranberry doesn't include ice dance. It's singles and pairs. Last year the SCOB hosted both Cranberry and the LPIDI the same week, but they are separate competitions.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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Seriously, I never disliked H&B, but the Glass program was what turned me into a fan. I don’t understand why they didn’t get more love for that one, but I’m glad I’m not the only one who appreciated it. And I found the Chopin FD totally mesmerizing every time. They also show real potential to be crowd favorites as show skaters.

Maybe I’ll just dedicate the next Olympic cycle to being a full time H&B stan.
I'll join you in stanning H/B - I think your journey into becoming a real fan of them mirrors mine. They were perfectly fine, but there was something really special about that Glass program, and Chopin was breathtaking.
 

Bigbird

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2,851
Well you don't have to convince me about the strengths and greatness of Hawayek/Baker. They are my favorite team and have been for a few years now. I think they deserved a much higher ranking at Worlds at least top 5 or 6. I shook my head in dismay at their world ranking last season.
Realistically even without C/B competing it still would be difficult for Kaitlin and Jean-Luc to be in medal position at worlds next year. The same go for CG/MP whom I also like, but I'd like to see how G/P progress for another year before I think they might be the near equals of H/B sometime in the future.
edit!
hmmm I just read the posts after my previous one and they make a good case for H/B being in medal contention. This is ice dance and there are new rules for the coming season but I'd be thrilled if Kaitlin and Jean-Luc could be a real podium threat.
The technical ability of H/B is superior, we know this, there is no doubt here. However, ice dance judges for better or worse are prejudiced by a couples exterior and lines, its all about aesthetics. The majority follow the ethos expoused by Krylova and Zhulin. Her own thoughts here, "If Hubbell lost weight, their only competition would be P/C. So for no other reason they hold H/B down. If they do not like your looks and your packaging cannot compensate that is it.
 
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sk9tingfan

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5,630
Cranberry doesn't include ice dance - it's singles and pairs.

Cranberry doesn't include ice dance. It's singles and pairs. Last year the SCOB hosted both Cranberry and the LPIDI the same week, but they are separate competitions.
Forgot that the segments were under different auspices; thanks for reminding me. That makes Lake Placid more likely for a Green and Parsons appearance. Boy, does it make me happy that a reserved a room when the event was announced!
 

tony

The older, the crankier
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13,488
The technical ability of H/B is superior, we know this, there is no doubt here. However, ice dance judges for better or worse are prejudiced by a couples exterior and lines, its all about aesthetics. The majority follow the ethos expoused by Krylova and Zhulin. Her own thoughts here, "If Hubbell lost weight, their only competition would be P/C. So for no other reason they hold H/B down. If they fo not like your looks and your packaging cannot compensate that is it.
Krylova and Zhulin are not judges, and I think stating something like this is dangerous and without any basis rather than it being your opinion; Hawayek already had a multiple-year eating disorder.

More likely than not, H/B have had multiple US medal-contending teams to deal with their entire senior career and their introspective programs haven't had the big wow moments in choreographic elements that several other teams in front of them have used successfully to earn big points. They are already slated to move up into at least the top 5 most likely next year with retirements and teams potentially sitting out a season. I still think they are in great shape to challenge for bronze at Worlds regardless.
 

Bigbird

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Krylova and Zhulin are not judges, and I think stating something like this is dangerous and without any basis rather than it being your opinion; Hawayek already had a multiple-year eating disorder.

More likely than not, H/B have had multiple US medal-contending teams to deal with their entire senior career and their introspective programs haven't had the big wow moments in choreographic elements that several other teams in front of them have used successfully to earn big points. They are already slated to move up into at least the top 5 most likely next year with retirements and teams potentially sitting out a season. I still think they are in great shape to challenge for bronze at Worlds regardless.
There is a reason she had that eating disorder. It is in part the disordered thinking of the judges. It's the reason why Valieva, Smart, Papadakis the list goes on an on, look like normal sized people outside of competition. It's part of the mental fatigue. It is part of the narrative. Saying it aint so doesn't make it less true. Dance is something you do while you can cope. Smart people who have diverse interests and talent develop a Plan B. The dance world is savage. These athletes owe the sport or us nothing. We just enjoy them while we can.
 

Jayar

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Messages
9,453
I think the big issue here is the way we allow teams to qualify for championships - so many young talented teams quit because they can't see a way upwards and it isn't fair. I think in theory a system where you earn your own individual spot would be so much more interesting (but I know they'd never even consider that)

This is the same in every sport across the globe. If you want to move up, you have to put in the work. Not every athlete is going to be a national champion.
 

litenkyckling

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Messages
543
This is the same in every sport across the globe. If you want to move up, you have to put in the work. Not every athlete is going to be a national champion.
but we all know this isn’t how it works in practice in a judged sport? C/B could fall on their faces at nationals and still get a worlds spot over a younger team and everyone knows it.
 

barbarafan

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5,199
The technical ability of H/B is superior, we know this, there is no doubt here. However, ice dance judges for better or worse are prejudiced by a couples exterior and lines, its all about aesthetics. The majority follow the ethos expoused by Krylova and Zhulin. Her own thoughts here, "If Hubbell lost weight, their only competition would be P/C. So for no other reason they hold H/B down. If they do not like your looks and your packaging cannot compensate that is it.
Hopefully there will be no Russians involved in coaching and judging this year so maybe they will not be looked on as Gods.
 

PRlady

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41,285
I’m as anti-Russian as anyone :p but even I don’t think the Russians are the only villains on weight issues. They just say the quiet part out loud.

If Jean-Luc were four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier no one would give Kaitlin’s weight a second look. To a lesser extent Olivia had the same problem: Adria isn’t short but he’s wiry. Give either girl a Zack or Andrew Poje and voila, the girls are fine.

(I realize this doesn’t account for Krylova’s comments about Hubbell but Maddy really is a gorgeous Amazon by dance standards, she’s 5’8” with an athletic build.)

ETA: I forgot Charlene and Marco, same issue.
 
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layman

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Messages
497
The technical ability of H/B is superior, we know this, there is no doubt here. However, ice dance judges for better or worse are prejudiced by a couples exterior and lines, its all about aesthetics. The majority follow the ethos expoused by Krylova and Zhulin. Her own thoughts here, "If Hubbell lost weight, their only competition would be P/C. So for no other reason they hold H/B down. If they do not like your looks and your packaging cannot compensate that is it.
These are outdated aesthetics. Ice Dance should be judged on the quality of the dancing on ice not on how the dancers look. I hope that without the toxic influence of the Russians (and their outdated ideas about aesthetics) that Ice Dance will move in a healthier direction, where the dancers are judged based on the quality of their dancing.
 

Bigbird

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2,851
I’m as anti-Russian as anyone :p but even I don’t think the Russians are the only villains on weight issues. They just say the quiet part out loud.

If Jean-Luc were four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier no one would give Kaitlin’s weight a second look. To a lesser extent Olivia had the same problem: Adria isn’t short but he’s wiry. Give either girl a Zack or Andrew Poje and voila, the girls are fine.

(I realize this doesn’t account for Krylova’s comments about Hubbell but Maddy really is a gorgeous Amazon by dance standards, she’s 5’8” with an athletic build.)

ETA: I forgot Charlene and Marco, same issue.
Second paragraph says it all.
 

mattiecat13

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621
“If Jean-Luc were four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier no one would give Kaitlin’s weight a second look.”

Agree. And I will say that whoever designs Kaitlin’s costumes doesn’t do her any favors. The girl needs costumes with a defined waist.
 

litenkyckling

Well-Known Member
Messages
543
I really hate to comment on anyone’s looks because there is so little you can do about and it truly has no baring on talent - but one thing that always stands out to me with them is the sheer amount of heavy make-up that Kaitlin wears. I know she’s into it and she does a good job BUT I think their look was a bit better when she had lighter make-up. JL has a softness about him that she can compliment well but not as much when the make-up is super heavy. Maybe that’s me being too harsh but it seemed to start with the lashes in the tango RD and it’s irritated me since.
 

Trillian

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694
I like a softer look on her as well. She's a gorgeous woman already; the heavy makeup is just overkill.

I think Kaitlin should do whatever makes her feel most comfortable and confident, in performance and otherwise. With that said, I do find it really striking from following her on social media that her selfies are usually very heavily filtered and she’s virtually unrecognizable in her makeup pics. Just given how much criticism women get for their physical appearances in skating, I hope she knows she’s gorgeous without all that, too.
 

ice coverage

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Katherine Hill and Ben Agosto got married over the weekend in Colorado! 🥂

Per Madi Chock's Instagram post today with a batch of photos showing the newlyweds as well as some of their illustrious guests:


One of the comments on Madi's Instagram is from gwendalpeizerat:
"The perfect wedding, better than any Hollywood movie. ❤️ Long live their love."​

Christopher Dean had tweeted a couple of photos earlier without revealing the occasion ;):

 
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Wyliefan

Slow, dull, and G-rated
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Tanith looks good. I love her dress. And Madi's too -- I love the color.
 
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