U.S. Ice Dance 2021-22 season news & updates

NinjaTurtles

No lamb chop, so don’t you fork my peas
Messages
4,102
I have the same tinfoil hat fear, but I'd be shocked if ChoBat aren't given first dibs - 1) they won Nats, 2) they have a higher WS, and 3) they were hugging HubDon in the IAM IG vids posted earlier today wishing HubDon safe travels and Chock had Hubbell do her nails earlier this week - if things weren't fine between them, especially with regard to the TE, then I doubt we'd have seen either, ya know?
Yeah, but I also think Chock/Bates are particularly wholesome and classy about that sort of thing. My personal preference is to give Chock/Bates first choice given 1st at Nats and higher mean international total score. Maybe they elected to do the FD and Hubbell/Donohue the RD?
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,314
Yeah, but I also think Chock/Bates are particularly wholesome and classy about that sort of thing. My personal preference is to give Chock/Bates first choice given 1st at Nats and higher mean international total score. Maybe they elected to do the FD and Hubbell/Donohue the RD?
That's my guess...
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,595
Maybe they elected to do the FD and Hubbell/Donohue the RD?
I would prefer this, personally.

I would put up Hubbell & Donohue with their big fast pattern (against the crowd-pleasing Elton John) and Chock & Bates's original FD up against the less original ones. I know this isn't how Nationals played out, but those are strengths I think could particularly serve these teams well against the material & skills these teams are likely to face in this Olympic team event. (Also C&B probably wouldn't have to deal with Guignard & Fabbri, though I do think G&F's FD is stronger than their RD). I wish both U.S. teams the best. It won't be easy, but they have the pieces. Hope they can use their experience and skate a couple programs they can be proud of. Ditto if only one team skates. It's about making the best contribution you can to the team.
 
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Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,314
I would prefer this, personally.

I would put up Hubbell & Donohue with their big fast pattern (against the crowd-pleasing Elton John) and Chock & Bates' original FD up against the less original ones. I know this isn't how Nationals played out, but those are strengths I think could particularly serve these teams well against the material & skills these teams are likely to face this in the Olympic team event. (Also C&B probably wouldn't have to deal with Guignard & Fabbri, though I do think G&F's FD is stronger than their RD). I wish both U.S. teams the best. It won't be easy, but they have the pieces. Hope they can use their experience and skate a couple programs they can be proud of. Ditto if only one team skates. It's about making the best contribution you can to the team.
It's a tough call, IMO, because the scores this season would seem to indicate the judges think that ChoBat have the stronger RD, but I do get what you're saying about putting Janet Jackson up against GilPoir and SinKats (whose RD is going to be crowd-pleasing too because who doesn't love "Brickhouse"?). Of course, if SinKats show up looking as rough in the TE RD as they did at Euros, then they're going to lose to both USA and CAN.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,595
Sinitsina & Katsalapov defeated Chock & Bates head-to-head in the RD on the GP despite S&K being barely "out of traction."

S&K's RD has gotten much better since then. (I'm unconvinced by their free). I don't think this panel will overlook a miss, but I'm not reading anything into two close scores at a high-scoring GP event in which both teams were at very different places in their seasons. (Nor would I have put S&K over C&B in the RD at that event. S&K were still moving like they were skating through molasses at that point. Not the case at Russian Nationals).
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
12,559
My tinfoil hat theory: USFSA wants to promote their ladies more than their dance so as always ladies will get to split.
That's been circulated by a few people, but it would be going against the document they published regarding the team event. Men and dance would surely be higher priority by internal rankings than women.

Also, USFS is moronic if they are going to promote three non-medalist threats when they have two potential podium finishers in dance, but we all know dance doesn't and won't ever get the attention it should here. C/B in particular have two very viral-worthy programs this season for the four-year and Olympic social media audiences.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,314
That's been circulated by a few people, but it would be going against the document they published regarding the team event. Men and dance would surely be higher priority by internal rankings than women.

Also, USFS is moronic if they are going to promote three non-medalist threats when they have two potential podium finishers in dance, but we all know dance doesn't and won't ever get the attention it should here. C/B in particular have two very viral-worthy programs this season for the four-year and Olympic social media audiences.
Which is truly bizarre given how the Browns' Metallica FD went viral last year and the only two other skating videos that I can recall seeing over and over again shared by non-skating friends on social media are James/Cipres "Sound of Silence" FS and Jason Brown's "Riverdance" FS. So, in the last 8 years, exactly which Ladies/Women's program has gone viral around the world? None, not even Kaori's awesome "Matrix" FS. You'd think the morons running the USFS would realize this and give Dance it's due, especially since they're the only individual medals we've gotten in the last two Olympics.

I just can't see the USFS splitting the Women, not with how the Selection Criteria document is written and given that C/B and H/D are both medal contenders. FWIW - I think NBC gets it, but maybe the USFS is still slow to the party.
 

Mme Bovary

Active Member
Messages
65
That's been circulated by a few people, but it would be going against the document they published regarding the team event. Men and dance would surely be higher priority by internal rankings than women.

Also, USFS is moronic if they are going to promote three non-medalist threats when they have two potential podium finishers in dance, but we all know dance doesn't and won't ever get the attention it should here. C/B in particular have two very viral-worthy programs this season for the four-year and Olympic social media audiences.
I truly hope you're right. What we're seeing now in terms of who's already on their way is perplexing, but perhaps others will follow soon.
 

Spikefan

At the Hubbell Salon
Messages
2,440
The RD is first up and the FD is three days later. If Chock/Bates don’t leave by Sunday/Monday then get your tinfoil hats out. Otherwise it’s much ado about nothing.
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,300
I personally prefer both of C/B programs over H/D, but strongly prefer their FD. If they're going to split, I'd absolutely want to see the Alien in the TE. (I think splitting the Madi's has a lot of support within the US figure skating community, even apart from the fact that by the criteria set out, the split would be dance and men over women or pairs).
 

wickedwitch

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,884
That's been circulated by a few people, but it would be going against the document they published regarding the team event. Men and dance would surely be higher priority by internal rankings than women.
Sure, but that same document gives USFSA the ability to override any decision.
 

dancelion21

Well-Known Member
Messages
176
Even though C/B have scored higher in the rhythm dance this season, I think H/D should skate the RD and C/B the FD, mostly because I am terrified that H/D's lift is going to get called during the team event.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
12,559
Even though C/B have scored higher in the rhythm dance this season, I think H/D should skate the RD and C/B the FD, mostly because I am terrified that H/D's lift is going to get called during the team event.
Seems like an odd thing to worry about - H/D got through Poltorak at the Grand Prix in Italy and Elek at Skate America. I wouldn't expect any sudden changes now.

In terms of hype for both teams I think it makes more sense for H/D in the RD and C/B in the FD, too.
 

SidelineSkater

Well-Known Member
Messages
240
Strategy wise it gives both teams a chance to warm up their ‘weaker’ scoring nats program.

H/D for their RD bobbles/levels and C/B for their FD levels…especially under a stricter international panel. I think H/D would benefit more bc the RD is trickier in terms of scoring to set a team up for the FD.

That’s of course if indeed this is the lineup for the Team Event.

I also wondered if C/B saying they plan to possibly stick around after the Olympics might impact how hard the politicking goes knowing H/D have said this is it. As in…let’s promote our short timers now and then go all in on the other team for the next quad.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,763
I also wondered if C/B saying they plan to possibly stick around after the Olympics might impact how hard the politicking goes knowing H/D have said this is it. As in…let’s promote our short timers now and then go all in on the other team for the next quad.
Pretty sure that's not how it works. ;) And in any event, USFS doesn't really politik its skaters anyway.

I do wish C/B were doing the RD b/c I wanted to see it an extra time (and i think it might set them up better in the individual) but I'll be happy as long as they get to take part in the TE.
 

SidelineSkater

Well-Known Member
Messages
240
Pretty sure that's not how it works. ;) And in any event, USFS doesn't really politik its skaters anyway.

I do wish C/B were doing the RD b/c I wanted to see it an extra time (and i think it might set them up better in the individual) but I'll be happy as long as they get to take part in the TE.

Hah. I know that's not how it works. Just like throw out all options. Plus there's always the subliminal/human factor - throwing out an extra point or +GOE for a team giving their swan song.

That was my point about the advantage to the team doing the RD in the TE to get one last official judging before the IE.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
Messages
17,081
Here's a quick interview I found on you tube with Caroline Green and Michael Parsons who will be going as alternates to the Olympics:



….

I just saw this report on Youtube. I think that the newscast’s editor got this title wrong…Green/Parsons not really traveling to Beijing as alternates. Still, it’s a nice piece & good publicity for G/P.
 

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
511
I personally prefer both of C/B programs over H/D, but strongly prefer their FD. If they're going to split, I'd absolutely want to see the Alien in the TE. (I think splitting the Madi's has a lot of support within the US figure skating community, even apart from the fact that by the criteria set out, the split would be dance and men over women or pairs).
Plus they have already posted strong RD scores. I would rather get mileage on the one and gain momentum going into the individual comp
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
Messages
35,254
I'm trying to think of it from H/D's point of view. If it came right down to it, I would guess that they'd rather lose a few points in the team event, where other strong U.S. skaters could help prop up the team for a medal, than in the individual event, where losing a few points could wipe out their medal hopes. Just my speculation.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,314
I'm trying to think of it from H/D's point of view. If it came right down to it, I would guess that they'd rather lose a few points in the team event, where other strong U.S. skaters could help prop up the team for a medal, than in the individual event, where losing a few points could wipe out their medal hopes. Just my speculation.
Sure, but I can't think of any reason why they would be ranked #1 by the IC Discipline Committee when ChoBat beat them at Nats and have the higher WS. I realize HubDon beat ChoBat at SkAm and medalled at Worlds, but, it isn't as clear cut as it was in 2018 with the Shibs.

I'm just hoping we'll see some news from ChoBat on IG today indicating they've been traveling to Beijing in the last day or so since they both went, relatively, silent on IG.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
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13,763
Sure, but I can't think of any reason why they would be ranked #1 by the IC Discipline Committee when ChoBat beat them at Nats and have the higher WS. I realize HubDon beat ChoBat at SkAm and medalled at Worlds, but, it isn't as clear cut as it was in 2018 with the Shibs.

I'm just hoping we'll see some news from ChoBat on IG today indicating they've been traveling to Beijing in the last day or so since they both went, relatively, silent on IG.
Agree, but my guess is the committee may have done something like using Worlds, GPF and Nats, and then when the GPF got canceled, substituted SA, and used the rationale that H/D beat C/B at 2 out of 3. But yes, if they actually followed the document...looked at trending scores over the fall and used Nats as the tiebreaker (for skaters/teams with similar BOW), then C/B should have been Team 1.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
14,427
Agree, but my guess is the committee may have done something like using Worlds, GPF and Nats, and then when the GPF got canceled, substituted SA, and used the rationale that H/D beat C/B at 2 out of 3. But yes, if they actually followed the document...looked at trending scores over the fall and used Nats as the tiebreaker (for skaters/teams with similar BOW), then C/B should have been Team 1.
Are you suggesting that the PTB worked the numbers/placements/and who knows what to get the results they wanted? I am stunned :summer:
🤓
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
Messages
4,713
But also consider this: H/D have been on the podium at every worlds since Pyeongchang to C/B’s zero times. We don’t know what would have happened in 2020, but h/d come in as reigning silver medalists and came out ahead in the one international head-to-head they had this season. It’s the world medals that give H/D the advantage.

As for world rankings, when you look across all 4 disciplines, we all know there are some wacky things. Like Grassl is ranked number 1 in men, but we all know he’s going down to Nathan in a few weeks.
 
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Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,314
Whether HubDon or ChoBat is #1, I'm not buying into the notion, based on the social media shares from early in the week before HubDon left, that they (H/D) are the only dance team in the TE. Chock got her nails done by Hubbell and they were hugging each other pretty warmly in the IAM videos - and Chock shared those send-off vids on her own IG story IIRC. That isn't the frosty behavior of a team that's been burned out of a potential TE medal.
 

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