Things I’m sick of tbh.....

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,153
The people who won't wear masks are generally (but not always) Trump supporters
Sometimes they are just anti-science people usually anti-vaxxers
Sometimes they are just people who are too embarrassed to wear a mask in public lest one of their cool/patriotic/studly/brave/utterly stupid friends might see them.
Which is sort of what this article says... only it's toxic masculinity that is the driver:[/URL]
It’s a shame that those people don’t understand how science WORKS.
Around here, in San Francisco, it's women and men, immigrants and the native-born, and of all ages and races. And they all seem to be asymptomatic. There aren't many Trump supporters in this city, masked or not.

My sense is that many of these people don't know that wearing a mask is meant to protect other people, not themselves, or if they do, they assume that since they are asymptomatic, they aren't putting other people at risk.

Even those who wear masks, however, don't always respect social distancing guidelines, and I think that the question of why those people wear masks but get so close to other people with whom they do not live is far more complicated than why people don't wear masks to begin with.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,313
Just a little theory of mine, but where I live many people had to get used to masks, as well as hand sanitizing, limited people allowed in, distancing inside etc very early on for one simple reason - if you didn't, no booze for you.

Our liquor stores are government-run, never closed at any point, so were among the first to adopt all the measures, plus many already had security guards onsite for other reasons. And since they have a monopoly, the only way to get your booze has been to comply. I think once people got passed that hurdle, the idea of doing same in grocery and other stores wasn't that big a deal.

(Of course there are exceptions, people who will flip out no matter what, people who don't buy liquor in the first place, and don't get me started on bars and weddings, and as I said, it's just a theory.)
 
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8,051
My area has been slow to adopt mask wearing. Dr. Henry has been consistent in her messaging that masks are a useful tool when social distancing is not possible but I doubt she’ll ever have a broad mask mandate. In the past couple of weeks though I’ve noticed people wearing them more despite living in an area that hasn’t had a positive case in weeks. Which is good. This isn’t going away anytime soon, we might as well get used to it.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
10,760
Are many countries politicising mask wearing?

Maybe it's just my own echo chamber but it doesn't seem to me like the UK has politicised masks like the US has.
No, I don’t think wearing masks is politicised in the UK the same way is it has been in the US. But then again, it seems to me that anything is politicised in the US. Someone says something stupid and immediately it is not because he/she is an idiot, it is because he/she is a Trump supporter! Thanks God it is not here like there. The same way as the explanation for any bad attributes were given to a person because he was from a different ethnic group, now any bad attributes are given because a person is from a different political party.
 
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nylynnr

Well-Known Member
Messages
838
The people who won't wear masks are generally (but not always) Trump supporters who think the p l a g u e is either a hoax to bring down Donald Trump, or it's not any worse than the flu and wearing a mask is an attempt by the "deep state" to get people used to complying with government orders so they can give you a vaccine with a tracking chip in it.

I wish I was kidding.
I don't think that's true in NYC. For example, I just got off the subway, and half of the people in my car -- about 10, all told -- were not wearing masks. Two were engaging in a heavy display of affection and moved to within a foot of me. Others were drinking and eating without masks. Still others were shouting at each other and the world in general, without masks. I don't think they are Trump supporters; if they are, then the Democrats are in trouble, because the Trump campaign has made tremendous strides in the heavily Democratic Bronx.

I'm not complaining, because although I was born in NYC, I didn't have to buy properties and live my life here. I've ridden subways twice a day for decades, and normally, raucous behavior doesn't faze me. But the ********* has made a lot of people think twice about whether they should remain in Manhattan; my utter lack of driving skill limits me. That's my bad.

Still, the frequent posts here that Trumpers are the main people not wearing masks, just isn't true in my neck of the woods.
 

Garden Kitty

Tranquillo
Messages
28,569
It sounds shallow, but I've missed the two day delivery from Amazon. I was excited when I ordered something today and they said it would be here on Sunday.
 

Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,305
Are many countries politicising mask wearing?

Maybe it's just my own echo chamber but it doesn't seem to me like the UK has politicised masks like the US has.

I see probably 90% compliance with mask wearing in supermarkets. It probably drops off to more like 75% in other indoor shops (and the people I regularly see not wearing masks are the young university aged people).

A lot of shops put out statements to say that they aren't going to police mask wearing in their shops since that is the job of the police and not them. Sainsburys plays a recording every few minutes over the speakers when you're shopping to remind people to social distance but also something along the lines of "government guidelines give exemptions to wearing masks, please respect all colleagues and customers who may fall into these exemption, please bear this in mind when you are shopping and keep a social distance."

People seem more relaxed about wearing masks.

Agreed about the majority of folks here in the UK seeming to be more chilled about wearing masks. Yes there are some who refuse but they are definitely in the minority and don't seem to be screaming and shouting about their civil rights being attacked - though I'm sure some are. I've been shopping in a few shops - not many but trying to get out a little more - and the majority of people are wearing masks - and of the few who haven't I've seen them wearing visors - which I know don't give the same protection as a mask but it does show people are definitely trying to follow the guidelines.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,271
There's certainly anti maskers in Germany (who tend to be the same as the bill gates conspiracy theoristd/anti vaxxers and they claim Germany is a dictatorship now) , but they mostly bitch on the internet and hold their stupid demos. They did manage some demos with between 10000 and 20000 people.
But they don't tend to turn up in places where you are supposed to wear masks.
And I think they are mostly the same people who always think angela Merkel is a dictator :shuffle:

But still the discipline in wearing masks could be better, some people just don't want to because they find it annoying. Those mostly tend to stick their nose out though...

When it's mandatory and there are actually controls people tend to wear masks well, but when there are no controls or its not mandatory, discipline gets much worse.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,714
the number of anti maskers here is pretty high. And the comments on the police scanner page are incredibly stupid. Like a robbery was reported and comments were along the lines of "what do you expect all these masked people, someone feels they can get away with it", to see police have really stuff to do not write mask violation citations.

But then the racists remarks on all the crime reports is downright scary.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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7,226
Or, in general, as my younger brother says, some (I am beginning to believe most) people are "just eat up with the dumb ass".
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
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3,453
I've read many studies on masking and there is limited evidence that it works. The science didn't change, the politicians bowed to massive pressure on social media from people who are freaked out and want a magic solution. Most of what people think of as "evidence" for masking comes from very questionable studies, all of which I have read. And where I am, there was a very noticeable increase in both the number of cases and the rate of increase after a mask mandate was imposed and the worst hit region has had a very strong mask mandate the longest without it appearing to have made much difference. I don't generally discuss these issues here anymore b/c the die is cast and this whole thing is just going to play itself out whether I like it or not, but that is the reality. A lot of what people think of as "evidence" that masks works is just infographics on twitter and facebook based on very questionable numbers from computer simulations that output results based on the assumptions that are built into them.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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28,776
I've read many studies on masking and there is limited evidence that it works.



No one is claiming that masks will completely stop the v*r*s from being transmitted, or that anyone wearing a mask will never get sick. But masks are effective as a preventative measure.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,785
I've read many studies on masking and there is limited evidence that it works. The science didn't change, the politicians bowed to massive pressure on social media from people who are freaked out and want a magic solution
That is absolutely not true. There was intense pressure on politicians NOT to issue mask mandates. The reason the recommendation changed is that we found out the ***** was spreading more through the air than was originally thought. That changed the risk/benefit equation.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
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826
We took a fairly strenuous hike yesterday in the national park near our house. Almost everyone on the trail was wearing a mask, which kind of surprised me because while people here are wearing masks indoors (except for the usual "rebels") - outdoors not so much, plus it's not required outside as long as you social distance. I think most of the trail hikers were from out of the area, and I'm guessing they have mandatory masks outdoors where they come from.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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8,317
I've read many studies on masking and there is limited evidence that it works.

It made all the difference in Yakima County, WA. Hospitalizations were slashed.

I'm all for studies, but we're seeing the numbers right in front of our eyes. In Oregon, numbers escalated through June and have stabilized since the mask mandate. Cases were predicted to escalate into the thousands per day in Oregon by the end of July. Masks came in the first week, and the numbers stopped escalating. (School openings will be the next big change/hurdle).
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
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27,082
I don't think that's true in NYC. For example, I just got off the subway, and half of the people in my car -- about 10, all told -- were not wearing masks. Two were engaging in a heavy display of affection and moved to within a foot of me. Others were drinking and eating without masks. Still others were shouting at each other and the world in general, without masks

People eating and drinking probably can't wear masks, unless they stick a straw under their masks. I did manage to eat some Hershey's Kisses today with only minimal movement of my mask. Two people making out probably also aren't going to be masked, unless they are, you know, into that. ;)

Can't do much about the people screaming at the world, except to say that I get it. :p
 

million$momma

Well-Known Member
Messages
441
People who don't get this piss me off so much.
I have friends in the medical field who also state that there was so much need for protection by front line workers that they didn't want the public going crazy and buying up stock. This is part of why people were told they didn't need masks. In theory, if you were sitting at home as ordered you didn't need them.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
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5,444
I wish people would wear a mask, too, but the early recommendations from the CDC and WHO that wearing masks was not beneficial and/or could actually spread c*vid-19. I'm friends with a few mask-deniers, and they are quoting reputable (if outdated) scientific sources in their denial. The communications and messaging failures from these organizations has had sad consequences. Better PR and communications could have saved a lot of lives, IMO. These are not fluff functions...

...I wish the mask-deniers would focus on the end (more freedom) and not the means, but they are using this as an opportunity to try to recast the right-wing as being the faction that's following science. And early mistakes + overreaches from the left have a sizable segment convinced that's what's happening.

There's this messy little problem that goes with medical science and new diseases - we LEARN as we go along. This was not so much "messaging failures," "early mistakes," or "overreaches" as us dealing with a deadly and confusing disease and learning as we went on how to manage it. I'm so sorry for your mask-denying friends that we didn't have all the answers right at the beginning and we gave them the excuse to twist things to fit their narrative. At the same time, I think if we had even recommended masks from the beginning, these folks would have still been screaming "it's no worse than the flu, we don't need masks or lockdowns," ad nauseum, because that was the narrative SOLD TO THEM FROM THE BEGINNING by their political party and especially it's current standard bearer.

Remember, these are the folks who live by "This is America, I'll do what I want" (and the hell with everyone else).
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,155
I understand where you’re coming from, but there was early evidence from China that masks were effective in controlling c*vid. “We’re studying it” would’ve been much better than the advice provided, which was not to wear a mask, and that cloth masks were likely to increase your odds of getting sick.

If there’s one way to get people not to trust you, it’s to keep changing your message. The WHO and the CDC failed. Masks did not magically go from making you sick to keeping you healthy in a matter of weeks. WHO and CDC provided advice and conclusions that were too specific for the data that they had.

I work in data. I run experiments every day. I understand the scientific method. I also understand that people will latch on to conclusions, even preliminary conclusions, and we have an obligation to be very careful with the wording of recommendations and conclusions. Where things are inconclusive or need more investigation, we need to say so v. confidently proclaiming the wrong thing.

There’s also the little issue of ~90% of peer-reviewed papers containing conclusions that an independent researcher cannot reproduce. Plus very very small sample sizes in many of them. I personally believe we need to place more weight on large-scale, real-world experiences, even if they don’t perfectly align to the scientific method, v. smaller-scale laboratory studies that seem to carry heavy bias from the individual researchers.
 

mikey

...an acquired taste
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4,916
I've read many studies on masking and there is limited evidence that it works.
Ah yes, "studies"... How exactly would a good, solid study on masking be set up? You would have to take a significant number of people and then randomly assign half of them to wear masks while the other half did not. At the same time, you would have to control for each and every other aspect of their entire lives so that the groups were identical aside from the masking in order to eliminate biases and confounding influences. Obviously, this is impossible to do and thus all studies of this type are by nature imperfect. You are forced to consider what makes logical sense, what trends are suggested by the data, observational and historical data, and so on. Everyone wants to look at "studies" but plenty of people have no idea how to interpret them correctly.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
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14,172
There’s also the little issue of ~90% of peer-reviewed papers containing conclusions that an independent researcher cannot reproduce. Plus very very small sample sizes in many of them. I personally believe we need to place more weight on large-scale, real-world experiences, even if they don’t perfectly align to the scientific method, v. smaller-scale laboratory studies that seem to carry heavy bias from the individual researchers.
I'd like to see evidence for that. Unless you mean that they cannot be reproduced because of funding issues, but then running field studies (which I agree is desirable) is pretty $$$.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,155
I'd like to see evidence for that. Unless you mean that they cannot be reproduced because of funding issues, but then running field studies (which I agree is desirable) is pretty $$$.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis (I know it's Wikipedia, but you can look at the source material)

Would be curious for your thoughts.

I do believe this to be true on the social science side, and think some gurus, e.g., Carol Dweck, are complete charlatans.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
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14,172
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis (I know it's Wikipedia, but you can look at the source material)

Would be curious for your thoughts.
I am familiar with the replication crisis. I was questioning the 90% figure that you wrote as an absolute across disciplines. I also question some of the failed replications; sometimes you need to consider whether a conceptual replication is more appropriate than a precise replication in order to get at the underlying effect.

I do believe this to be true on the social science side, and think some gurus, e.g., Carol Dweck, are complete charlatans.
With respect to social sciences, there's a difference between outright frauds like Diederik Stapel and people who were trained to use methods that were considered acceptable in the past and now aren't (e.g., small sample sizes, selective reporting).
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
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50,783
A lot of what people think of as "evidence" that masks works is just infographics on twitter and facebook based on very questionable numbers from computer simulations that output results based on the assumptions that are built into them.

Is that what you think people here do--read Facebook and Twitter and rather mindlessly swallow what is said?
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
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5,444
I'd just like to put this in here regarding the "maskholes" and the distrust of science and what it has led to:

 

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