Things I’m sick of tbh.....

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
63,153
I disagree. Being in the persuading/arguing business, I find that people often silently read, silently ponder, silently move along the continuum of views on a subject, especially if they didn’t know much to start with. I’ve had people here PM me on Israel/Palestine, for example, thanking me for information and opinions. I’ve learned a lot on topics I knew next to nothing about, the endless arguments on health care provided insight from doctors, nurses, administrators, insurance people....

Just because people don’t popup publicly and say, Eureka! The scales have fallen from my eyes and I can see! Doesn’t mean minds are not changing or expanding.
But you weren't arguing about it. Reading and learning is not the same as :argue: which many people seem to prefer, especially those who love to dog pile on a poster. You know who the usual suspects are: both those who enjoy being controversial just for the sake of it and those who rush to tell them how it is. Have any of them ever changed their posting habits because others rushed to tell them the "truth"? I find those who start the fight annoying and so are those who perpetuate it.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
36,548
My oldest sister is Karen. She had no idea this was even a meme until I told her. Then she was outraged. To be fair she's bossy but only with her sibs (oldest child syndrome) & would never stick her nose in like the stereotypical Karens.
There was a sign at the protest I went to on Sunday that said "stop calling them Karens. Call them the Cracker Bitches that they are."

Now, I'm not on board with using ethnic slurs, and people, especially men, often use the term bitches to keep women down so I don't think I will be following this advice. I do think it shows two things though. (1) Why people came up with a Name as a shortcut to being with. The name doesn't include ethnic slurs nor calls women you don't like bitches. (2) Using a name then makes the whole thing cutsie instead of serious and obscures the true nature of the behavior.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,166
But you weren't arguing about it. Reading and learning is not the same as :argue: which many people seem to prefer, especially those who love to dog pile on a poster. You know who the usual suspects are: both those who enjoy being controversial just for the sake of it and those who rush to tell them how it is. Have any of them ever changed their posting habits because others rushed to tell them the "truth"? I find those who start the fight annoying and so are those who perpetuate it.
First rule of debating in media:your opponent is not your audience. You’re not convincing the guy you’re arguing with, but if your point are valid, they will influence what your silent audience thinks.

This is less true nowadays than it used to be before everyone lived in their own echo chamber, but it’s still valid.
 

gkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,378
I have definitely changed my mind about some things, skating related and otherwise, based on conversations at FSU.

Sharing facts and analysis more dispassionately, and sharing personal experiences with fervor, are more likely to make an impression.

Whereas arguments that rely on namecalling and other personal attacks -- whether on other posters or on generalized groups of people -- tend to have the opposite effect.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,394
I find it very sad when certain people who appear to be suffering from cognitive problems and/or one sort of psychiatric disorder or another post their twisted logic here instead of getting treatment. I already have a brother and a President with these issues, and I have no desire to wade through the musings of similar people here. I put them on Ignore. Sue me.

I have not, however, used the Ignore function to weed out the posts of certain people who imagine that they are serving some useful purpose by trying to debate with the trolls but, at least as far as I am concerned, are unwitting agents of traumatization. The responses to one particular poster are getting to the point where I am going to have to consider either a far more aggressive use of the Ignore function or not even opening some otherwise interesting threads.[/RANT]
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,304
I don’t like to ignore, I like to try to understand where someone else is coming from, as that in turn helps me understand my own beliefs and values better.

There's a quote I try to keep in mind, “Far more unites us than divides us” - it’s the only way I can manage a relationship with certain people in my life.
I only put someone on ignore when their posts are causing me undue stress. For a while, I might just scroll by, but the problem is when a lot of people are replying to that poster, and so it becomes problematic for me. And then I occasionally click on "show ignored content" because of a response someone has made, and I almost always regret it. I don't mind reading others' point of view, but I just can't deal with some (few) posters.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
36,548
I only put someone on ignore when their posts are causing me undue stress. For a while, I might just scroll by, but the problem is when a lot of people are replying to that poster, and so it becomes problematic for me. And then I occasionally click on "show ignored content" because of a response someone has made, and I almost always regret it. I don't mind reading others' point of view, but I just can't deal with some (few) posters.
I pretty much could have written this.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
50,336
I'm sick you and your gang of liberal bullies who aren't happy unless you're silencing every dissenting view. Use the ignore button or scroll past posts. It's not that hard.
For what it's worth, no one has ever asked me to ban you or delete your posts (at least until a couple of days ago). I don't know about the other admins. But I have had a number of people ask me if I think you are okay because they are concerned for your mental health.

I think you speak for people on the board who don't speak for themselves and think that has value whether I agree with you or not.

That said, I see no reason why anyone should just ignore your posts. You feel the need to share your views on things with frequency and vigor; why shouldn't other people do it, too?

I disagree. Being in the persuading/arguing business, I find that people often silently read, silently ponder, silently move along the continuum of views on a subject, especially if they didn’t know much to start with.
ITA. Of course, plenty of people are too closed-minded to ever move their opinions, but then there are plenty of other people.

Just because people don’t popup publicly and say, Eureka! The scales have fallen from my eyes and I can see! Doesn’t mean minds are not changing or expanding.
Yes, most people change their minds on things gradually as their experiences and knowledge develop. I see a lot of that here and everywhere else. How many people have the same opinions at 50 that they had at 20? FSU has had 21 years to contribute to change.

First rule of debating in media:your opponent is not your audience.
If your opponent is your audience, then you try to find middle ground and go from there. If everyone else is your audience, you try to make a case for your position as reasonable and informed in the face of opposing evidence. That's the difference between persuasion and argument in a nutshell.
 
Messages
7,933
I’m sick of not working. I thought maybe I’d start to go back to work in June but my boss just called and asked if I could wait longer. It makes sense to keep the pool of employees small from a health perspective and is best financially for all of the employees, but selfishly I’d really like to go back. Sigh.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,451
Even the preacher was hugging everyone while not wearing a mask, either. The preacher and all the others there told her not to worry about it because God would take care of it. God would see to it that they didn't get the beer burden. 🤪
:yikes:There's just no cure for stupidity. Especially in the case of a transmissable disease.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,751
I think it's because we are hug deprived. My 39 year old son who has his wife and 3 kids in his stay at home circle posted he missed hugs.

Some of his non hugging friends posted they did too.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,451
I disagree. Being in the persuading/arguing business, I find that people often silently read, silently ponder, silently move along the continuum of views on a subject, especially if they didn’t know much to start with. I’ve had people here PM me on Israel/Palestine, for example, thanking me for information and opinions. I’ve learned a lot on topics I knew next to nothing about, the endless arguments on health care provided insight from doctors, nurses, administrators, insurance people....

Just because people don’t popup publicly and say, Eureka! The scales have fallen from my eyes and I can see! Doesn’t mean minds are not changing or expanding.
I think it really depends on the particular belief or viewpoint, and how strong it is. As you say, people are likely to move among a continuum of views on a subject they don't know much about. But when one has a really strong belief, there may not be much movement. For example, no one is going to change my pro-choice position. However it is important for me to acknowledge and address the pro-life position. Doing that is important for any position on anything - one should examine and substantiate one's views.

OTOH, I don't have a firm position on Israel/Palestine. The last time we had an in-depth discussion on the issue - a few years back IIRC - I found myself reading strongly defended positions on both sides, and finding both sides to be very compelling.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,166
I think it really depends on the particular belief or viewpoint, and how strong it is. As you say, people are likely to move among a continuum of views on a subject they don't know much about. But when one has a really strong belief, there may not be much movement. For example, no one is going to change my pro-choice position. However it is important for me to acknowledge and address the pro-life position. Doing that is important for any position on anything - one should examine and substantiate one's views.

OTOH, I don't have a firm position on Israel/Palestine. The last time we had an in-depth discussion on the issue - a few years back IIRC - I found myself reading strongly defended positions on both sides, and finding both sides to be very compelling.
Yeah that’s basically the problem there, which is why it goes on and on. My husband still works on the issue and I get tired just listening to him on Zoom calls.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,374
I’m sick of not working. I thought maybe I’d start to go back to work in June but my boss just called and asked if I could wait longer. It makes sense to keep the pool of employees small from a health perspective and is best financially for all of the employees, but selfishly I’d really like to go back. Sigh.
We need an embrace-you-smiley on FSU.

I understand you.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,356
I'm sick of people trying to get me to feel better. I don't want to feel better right now, and I want to be angry right now.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,751
I'm sick of people trying to get me to feel better. I don't want to feel better right now, and I want to be angry right now.
I want people to be angry about the police brutality.

I hear/read from my white friends that people should return to a time that people respected each other, etc. That it never happened before (I think they mean our city). They are my age or some older. I said uh 1968. No response. That's white privilege.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,241
I also get tired of the idea of "returning" to some version of a better or simpler time, along with sentiments that include "in our day" or what have you, as though there was no crime, no danger, no conflict, no fear, just all sunshine and puppies.

We can only hope to move forward to a better place; there's nothing to return to.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,751
We need to recognize whether it is the civil unrest or C-19 environment there will not be a return to the old normal.
 

Lynn226

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,369
I also get tired of the idea of "returning" to some version of a better or simpler time, along with sentiments that include "in our day" or what have you, as though there was no crime, no danger, no conflict, no fear, just all sunshine and puppies.

We can only hope to move forward to a better place; there's nothing to return to.
I was frustrated with such sentiments even before our current situation. I think such feelings arise from selective memory. Also, many people are talking about their own youth when they were most likely less informed about the true state of the world. For example, I remember high school as fun, but those years for me were during the Cold War. I won't say I didn't care, but I doubt I spent huge amounts of time thinking about it.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,241
We need to recognize whether it is the civil unrest or C-19 environment there will not be a return to the old normal.
Agree. This has been hard on all of us, but for those who really have lost - or will lose - something specific, and who are maybe clinging to the idea that things will somehow return to whatever their personal normal was, it's going to be that much harder. I'm thinking of people who have or who will permanently lose their jobs because of this, and of course those who have or will lose loved ones.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,451
I also get tired of the idea of "returning" to some version of a better or simpler time, along with sentiments that include "in our day" or what have you, as though there was no crime, no danger, no conflict, no fear, just all sunshine and puppies.

We can only hope to move forward to a better place; there's nothing to return to.
The past is always safer than the present, because humankind survived it.

And with each generation, something is gained and something is lost. For example, I grew up in the Canadian north, and the summer nights were very long. You couldn't get us inside for bedtime! We played and found all sorts of things to do, including garden raiding. When I see kids today who are totally into their electronics, I am grateful for the childhood I had and my memories of childhood summers.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,394
I want people to be angry about the police brutality.

I hear/read from my white friends that people should return to a time that people respected each other, etc. That it never happened before (I think they mean our city). They are my age or some older. I said uh 1968. No response. That's white privilege.
1919 too. Was that not taught in school?
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,241
I was frustrated with such sentiments even before our current situation. I think such feelings arise from selective memory. Also, many people are talking about their own youth when they were most likely less informed about the true state of the world. For example, I remember high school as fun, but those years for me were during the Cold War. I won't say I didn't care, but I doubt I spent huge amounts of time thinking about it.
Agree. Like the people who go on about how great it was to grow up in their perfect little town where no one ever locked their doors and they ran free without fear, apparently totally forgetting about the serial rapist/murderer who was actively victimizing people at the same time (true story).

I mentioned before that my father went into an LTC just as this started. We talk every day, and often he's the one trying to make me feel better about what a mess the world is in. He says it's always been like this, but along with the bad there's always been a lot of good too. The difference is maybe like you say, we are better informed. We no longer rely on newspapers and the evening news to sort through it all and package it for us. We have access to all the raw data, in real time, overwhelmingly so.

And, we're now a global society. We travel more, we have real-time connections to people all over the world, we are exposed to many more cultures, we live in diverse communities, we work for global companies. And we're all part of FSU, so we're hearing from real people about what's really happening in their lives and their communities, as it's happening.

That's what's different, the rest, not so much.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,751
1919 too. Was that not taught in school?
I'm sure it was. 1968 is more prominent for me, because I was alive at that time. Which was true for the ones who were posting it, they just live in their little bubbles I guess.
I keep hearing about some of the similarities of 1967-68; we had two crisis' hitting at the same time. 1967-68 Vietnam and Civil Rights. Now we have C-19 and this killing.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,451
Agree. Like the people who go on about how great it was to grow up in their perfect little town where no one ever locked their doors and they ran free without fear, apparently totally forgetting about the serial rapist/murderer who was actively victimizing people at the same time (true story).
There wasn't a serial rapist in the small northern Canadian town I grew up in, but I'm sure there was plenty of wife and child abuse. And there was a reserve just out of town, where Indigenous people were subject to the general abuses and discrimination of the time.

We did lock the doors, although didn't feel a great need for self-protection. As a child I did run free without fear, and am grateful to have experienced that.

There was a huge park on one side of our house, and a forest of sorts (trees and rocks, basically) right behind the house. Kids on the street and the street across would walk to school and home from school through the park, with no parental supervision required. There were lakes in the area, and one lake in particular, called Phantom Lake, was very popular. Just crammed with moms and kids on summer days. I have wonderful memories of summer days at that lake. And in later years, of Sundays at my family's cottage. It was one row of lake front cottages down a dirt road, and a few non-lakefront on the other side of the road. On Sundays people would walk up and down the dirt road, visiting with everyone. Everything close in town on Sundays. We usually had visitors for dinner and my dad would cook up a pile of steaks. Guess beef was way cheaper back then.

Even though bad things were certainly happening, I am grateful to have had that childhood and adolescent experience (left town to attend uni in the city before I turned 17). Our town had about 10000 people, so not exactly a village. But it was remote - 600 miles from the nearest major city.

Although my town certainly wasn't 'perfect', I do wax nostalgic about it. I've lived in big cities since leaving home,and often find myself longer to live in a small community with a slower pace of life. Though I do recognize that small communities can be narrow minded and restrictive. But the town I grew up was not like that, excepting racism towards the natives. My family was one of the few Jewish families in town, and we lived in an atmosphere of peace with the Catholics and Protestants, and a few Indian families.

There was one Chinese family in town which ran a Chinese restaurant - seems every small Canadian town had one. I've always wondered if they were accepted in the community, and hope that they were.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
36,548
The past is always safer than the present, because humankind survived it.
It's like those stupid memes about how people lived in a time when all sorts of things we now consider dangerous and "I'm fine!" Well, duh, if you died from not wearing a seat belt, you wouldn't be posting on Facebook now, would you?

As far as nostalgia goes, people look back on what they remember of their lifetimes. So the 1918 Flu ********* isn't going to be a period they are looking back on. The few people who are alive now that were alive then were babies back then.

It seems like in politics when people look back, they are talking about the 50s almost exclusively. That time when things were fairly prosperous, enough removed from the war, and women and minorities weren't "uppity." According to those people, the world went to hell in a handbasket when women became feminists and POC got rights (Civil Rights Act). Whereas I look back on that time as a time when we took a big leap forward towards justice.

And if I'm going to be nostalgic, it's about the Obama years when almost everything I believe in looked to be on track to improve even more.
 

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