The Tiger King Thread: for all you cool cats and kittens (SPOILERS)

[MacMadame]

Okay, I have a lot of questions about this show and it seems others do too. So let's talk about it here and not dominate the Netflix thread.

My questions:
1) Do people think Joe Exotic was set up by the other J-man (Jeff?)

2) Did Carole Baskin really kill her husband or did he run away or something else?

3) Why does Baskin's ex-wife act like she's still his wife and entitled to be in his will in any substantial way?

4) Does James Garretson remind you of a slightly more competent Shawn Eckhardt? And not just physically but the way he talked about the whole thing and his part in it?

I have more but I'll stop for now

 

[canbelto]

1) Yeah, but he was guilty of animal abuse so ...

2) Totally. Carole is creepy.

3) Think it's more like the daughters got cut out of the will

4) Oh yeah.

Other questions:

• How much were those branded condoms for the governor campaign costing?
• How did Joe get three straight guys to marry him?
• How many years do you have to work to actually get paid at Carole's Cat sanctuary, and not just get a different colored t-shirt?

Carole's blog post here:

Refuting Netflix Tiger King

Big Cat Rescue is dedicated to the ethical treatment and conservation of big cats. Join our mission to end abuse in captivity and protect wild cats in their natural habitats.

bigcatrescue.org

 

[canbelto]

This twitter thread has a lot more info about Joe Exotic:

𝐑𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫𝐭 𝐌𝐨𝐨𝐫 on Twitter

“To anyone currently bingeing #tigerking on Netflix: I spent four years working on a podcast and a long magazine story about Joe and Carole. I spent a week living at the zoo. I’ve spoken with almost everyone you’re seeing in the doc, and I attended the trial. Ask me anything!”

twitter.com

 

[canbelto]

Like this:

𝐑𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫𝐭 𝐌𝐨𝐨𝐫 on Twitter

“5. Before Joe married John or Travis, he married another young (straight) guy named JC Hartpence. Hartpence later served time in prison for molesting a young girl, and is now serving life in prison for first degree murder.”

twitter.com

 

[MacMadame]

2) Totally. Carole is creepy.

Lots of Creepy people don't kill other people though.

In terms of her sanctuary, it seems fairly well run. She doesn't just pull random people off the street and throw them in with the big cats. There seems to be training and a gradual increase in responsibilities. Also, she is certified. That doesn't mean she doesn't do anything wrong, but no one was willing to certify Joe E as a sanctuary at all ever. So the idea that Joe E is pushing that they are the same when it comes to the big cats doesn't fly with me.

I get the impression she married young, went along with what her husband said at first about raising big cats, but eventually got a mind of her own and religion about not having big cats in zoos. Did that cause friction in the marriage? Probably. Did she kill her husband over it? Improbable to me. There were so many other ways to deal with the issue and come out on top. (She does strike me as manipulative and very good at looking out for herself.)

 

[oleada]

I don’t think Joe was set up. The “Over My Dead Body” podcast has a lot more info on the case.

 

[canbelto]

Lots of Creepy people don't kill other people though.

In terms of her sanctuary, it seems fairly well run. She doesn't just pull random people off the street and throw them in with the big cats. There seems to be training and a gradual increase in responsibilities. Also, she is certified. That doesn't mean she doesn't do anything wrong, but no one was willing to certify Joe E as a sanctuary at all ever. So the idea that Joe E is pushing that they are the same when it comes to the big cats doesn't fly with me.

I get the impression she married young, went along with what her husband said at first about raising big cats, but eventually got a mind of her own and religion about not having big cats in zoos. Did that cause friction in the marriage? Probably. Did she kill her husband over it? Improbable to me. There were so many other ways to deal with the issue and come out on top. (She does strike me as manipulative and very good at looking out for herself.)

But what happened to Don? People don't just disappear into thin air.

 

[made_in_canada]

I don’t think she killed her husband either. I expect she’s not being completely forthcoming about everything she knows but I don’t think she murdered him.

Of all the shady characters involved, I think Jeff and Doc Antle are probably some of the shadiest. I think they’re just smarter about keeping their mouths shut.

 

[Prancer]

I've been to Big Cat Rescue and met Carole when I was there, so that part was all to me.

The main thing I remember about the tigers was that most of them were retired Ringling Brothers cats--or at least that's what we were told--so I was pretty startled when Joe that her cats were the ones she had bred and it was left at that.

I think she killed her husband.

I think Joe Exotic was set up, and I think he is guilty.

I agree with canbelto that the ex-wife was angry about her daughters--although she did say "we" like she expected to be part of that.

James Gerrettson is totally Shawn Eckhardt with a few more IQ points.

EVERYONE who was in this doc is apparently unhappy with the way they were portrayed. Um...........

 

[canbelto]

My favorite part is that John Finlay was upset that they didnt show footage of his new teeth.

 

[MacMadame]

I don’t think Joe was set up. The “Over My Dead Body” podcast has a lot more info on the case.

I think he would have talked about killing her forever, but not actually done anything about it until other people enabled it. I'm not saying

But what happened to Don? People don't just disappear into thin air.

Actually, they do. Look at all the missing person's flyers on the internet. Also, if you have money and you go down to Costa Rica regularly, it's both easier to

James Gerrettson is totally Shawn Eckhardt with a few more IQ points.

I couldn't stop thinking that every time he was onscreen. It was actually distracting.

EVERYONE who was in this doc is apparently unhappy with the way they were portrayed. Um...........

Often that means they did a good job but I don't think they did. They just presented everyone's statements like no fact-checking. I think this article is clearer about the players and the timeline and it has some fact-checking.

The Modern Barnum and His Equally Extraordinary Nemesis

Roadside zookeeper Joe Exotic took the tiger, and the lion, and the liger, by the tail and wouldn’t let go.

nymag.com

I'm also in the middle of this one:

The Strange and Dangerous World of America’s Big Cat People - Longreads

A headline-grabbing murder-for-hire plot helped expose the dark side of exotic animal ownership in the U.S. Is there now enough momentum to reform the industry?

longreads.com

My favorite part is that John Finlay was upset that they didnt show footage of his new teeth.

My favorite part was the random film of Smarter-Shawn Eckhardt on his jet ski.

 

[floridaice]

In terms of her sanctuary, it seems fairly well run. She doesn't just pull random people off the street and throw them in with the big cats. There seems to be training and a gradual increase in responsibilities. Also, she is certified. That doesn't mean she doesn't do anything wrong, but no one was willing to certify Joe E as a sanctuary at all ever. So the idea that Joe E is pushing that they are the same when it comes to the big cats doesn't fly with me.

I've been to Big Cat Rescue and met Carole when I was there, so that part was all to me.

The main thing I remember about the tigers was that most of them were retired Ringling Brothers cats--or at least that's what we were told--so I was pretty startled when Joe that her cats were the ones she had bred and it was left at that.

I took my husband to Big Cat Rescue for his birthday in January -- didn't know about the connection at the time. The tour we took was very interesting and they told us the back story on a lot of the cats. Some were from circuses, some were former 'pets' that people found out they couldn't handle, but a good many were 'witness protection' cats -- those confiscated from criminals, mainly drug dealers. Some of the guides and handlers had been there for many years and they have internship programs for college students. They did mention the cubs raised for petting and how bad that was and encouraged everyone to contact their representatives about passing legislation regulating the private ownership of big cats.

She was referred to as the founder --- not sure how much she is actually involved with the day to day running of the place. (Hopefully not too much.) But, I've been following them on Facebook and she does post there and has several, rambling responses to the program on their and on their blog/website.

I haven't had a chance to watch yet, but I can't wait.

 

[MacMadame]

Btw, where the cats at Big Cat Rescue come from is a detail that should be easy to verify. That's an example of where I think this documentary falls down. It would be easy enough to check and put a crawl on the screen with factual information.

ETA I came here to post a link to the Podcast in case people want to hear that. (It's not done by the people who did the Netflix series.)

Joe vs Carole on Apple Podcasts

True Crime · 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Ananas Astra]

This show has got everything!
My personal highlights:

• the one dude from Joe's zoo not giving a **** about how many wives Doc Antle has.
• the Carole Baskin diss song (she totally killed her husband).
• Joe Exotic's eulogy at Travis' funeral.
• the Walmart pizza
• Joe hiring a Walmart gun dude to be his election manager and the entire election stuff in itself.
• Joe grooming straight young men with tigers and meth.

My bf gave up after binging the first two episodes. He couldn't handle this amount of batshit crazy.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I had to watch this because of all the responses.

IMO:

1. Carole Baskin had something to do with her husband's death.
2. Joe was not setup but he had plenty of people egging him on for their own profit who probably should share some responsibility in their own behavior.
3. the Wal Mart guy as the election manager
4. I think that Rick Kirkham was right that Joe started out loving the animals and lost his way

 

[MacMadame]

My bf gave up after binging the first two episodes. He couldn't handle this amount of batshit crazy.

It probably says something about me that it wasn't the batshit crazy that almost caused me to stop watching. I just found the first episode very repetitive. But I stuck with it and when I got to episode 3 where the first "Carole killed her husband and fed him to the tigers" accusation was, I was hooked.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

It probably says something about me that it wasn't the batshit crazy that almost caused me to stop watching. I just found the first episode very repetitive. But I stuck with it and when I got to episode 3 where the first "Carole killed her husband and fed him to the tigers" accusation was, I was hooked.

I had the same thought. I was trying to figure out why everyone was

 

[Prancer]

I think he would have talked about killing her forever, but not actually done anything about it until other people enabled it.

That's what I mean by he was set up and he's guilty.

She was referred to as the founder --- not sure how much she is actually involved with the day to day running of the place.

She was on site to do a bit for a local news station and was floating around being all earth-mothery while people in different colored T-shirts orbited around here. I had no idea at the time that there was a dress code.

I have a green T-shirt somewhere. I wonder what that makes me.

Anyway, I don't think accuracy was the point of this particular documentary. The director said that he started out wanting to do a documentary about the big cat law and big cat ownership in the US, but when Netflix saw the raw footage, they wanted to focus on the characters involved. And I think that's really what the documentary was about; accuracy was beside the point.

My personal favorite moment was that meth damages your teeth.

 

[MacMadame]

That's what I mean by he was set up and he's guilty.

Sometimes you can argue entrapment when that happens. Not sure if it would fly here given all his very public threats.

 

[Prancer]

Sometimes you can argue entrapment when that happens.

You can argue entrapment if law enforcement sets you up. I don't think you can make that argument for private citizens.

 

[canbelto]

I couldn't believe Joe talked about teabagging Travis at Travis's funeral and his mom was right there!

 

[allezfred]

I couldn’t believe that Joe Exotic got three relatively attractive men (prior to losing their teeth from meth ) to marry him.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I couldn't believe the employee that chose to get her arm amputated for the good of the park rather than go through the surgeries. Two years doesn't sound fun but I personally would have given it a shot before losing my arm. Whatever she signed when she was first injured may have been a factor.

Joe would have been financially responsible for the 2 years of medical bills.

 

[MacMadame]

You can argue entrapment if law enforcement sets you up. I don't think you can make that argument for private citizens.

Even if they are CIs?

It seems like a gray area.

 

[Ananas Astra]

I couldn't believe Joe talked about teabagging Travis at Travis's funeral and his mom was right there!

Mommy Maldonado was also high af. Love the fact she attended Joe's wedding to Dillon like a month later.

 

[canbelto]

I have to rewatch this but did Exotic really receive 19% of the vote?

 

[MacMadame]

I have to rewatch this but did Exotic really receive 19% of the vote?

In the Libertarian primary.

 

[canbelto]

Omg. OJ Simpson has weighed in on Carole Baskin.

O.J. Simpson on Twitter

“Tiger Sashimi #TigerKing https://t.co/VuQzT3OAvM”

twitter.com

 

[Spikefan]

Just an absolutely bat**** crazy documentary. I live in such a bubble now but pretty much the entire town where I grew up was like this-minus the big cats. Rural America is mind blowing.

 

[Ananas Astra]

I hope Brad Pitt is in for this: https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/joe-e...or-joe-dirt-to-play-him-in-tiger-king-biopic/