The Right to Bear Arms - When the Wrongs Don't Make a Right

caseyedwards

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Today here in Australia is the 25th Anniversary of the Port Arthur Massacre which led to historic changes in gun laws. 36 people died. We have not had another random mass shooting since.
According to how mass shootings are defined in US australia definitely has had at least two. I mean a man killing his whole family with a gun isn’t random but it’s a mass shooting
 

Aussie Willy

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According to how mass shootings are defined in US australia definitely has had at least two. I mean a man killing his whole family with a gun isn’t random but it’s a mass shooting
I was waiting for someone to say that.

Yep cases of domestic violence which is a whole other issue here in Australia. And while a gun might be used they are treated as domestic violence. They are not treated as some random individual shooting up a crowded theatre, nightclub, church, school - oh wow we don't have school shootings. Kids here are safe from that. Imagine as a kid you don't have to worry about that.

Last year approximately one woman, children or other family members died at the hands of a male partner.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Surprise testimony during the last day of the NRA case:
The National Rifle Association’s hopes of end-running a legal challenge in New York were dealt a serious blow on Monday when a Justice Department official rebuked its leadership and called for the dismissal of its bankruptcy filing or the appointment of an outside monitor to oversee its finances.

Lisa L. Lambert, a lawyer in the United States Trustee’s office, which is part of the Justice Department, said the “evidentiary record clearly and convincingly establishes” that Wayne LaPierre, the longtime N.R.A. chief executive, “has failed to provide the proper oversight.” For a number of years, she added, “the record is unrefuted that Wayne LaPierre’s personal expenses were made to look like business expenses.”

Mr. LaPierre and the N.R.A. had filed for bankruptcy not because of any financial distress, but as a strategy to avoid litigation in New York, where the attorney general, Letitia James, is seeking to shut down the organization and claw back millions of dollars in allegedly misspent funds from Mr. LaPierre and three other current or former executives.
 

Aussie Willy

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Well done to the NRA. Now a 6th grader using a gun at a school. Thankfully no deaths. 3 injured. I am sure they are sending their thoughts and prayers to the injured. But now will probably say that all kids should be armed so they can defend themselves from others in their class. Insanity.

 

puglover

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Well done to the NRA. Now a 6th grader using a gun at a school. Thankfully no deaths. 3 injured. I am sure they are sending their thoughts and prayers to the injured. But now will probably say that all kids should be armed so they can defend themselves from others in their class. Insanity.

Our niece's children go to that school and her daughter was apparently somehow involved in the periphery of this shooting. Her parents are beyond traumatized. This is a lovely community but probably Republican and who knows how this will be perceived or how they will react.
 

DORISPULASKI

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From the article, the current governor sent prayers. He forgot the part about thoughts..


Meanwhile, it is possible to shoot people in extremities without killing them. Police take note :(
 

skateboy

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I have a few gun-toting friends. And yes, they're Trump supporters. And they like to brag about "carrying" wherever they go.

My question to all three of them has been, and remains: "What are YOU gonna do with a gun when some thug randomly pulls one on you? We can't all walk around with our fingers on a trigger all day. And, along with that... exactly what situation do you imagine would call for you, a citizen, to draw your gun?"

I'm still waiting for an answer.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Prosecutors ought to seriously and consistently charge gun owners who permit 11 year old children to access their weapons whether they obtain them negligently or otherwise. Some jail time for the adult gun owners might go a long way to help limit these kinds of shootings. Also if the gun owners can be convicted of a felony it would probably remove some guns from households so residents (adults or underage children) can't run amok with them. Law enforcement and the prosecutors need to stop saying "terrible accident" whenever an 8 year old gets the gun from the top shelf of the closet and shoots the neighbor kid.
 

pat c

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Can you put a qualifier on the 2nd amendment? ie, you can own a gun and open carry, but it can't be a semi automatic for instance? That would be a help.
 

BlueRidge

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Can you put a qualifier on the 2nd amendment? ie, you can own a gun and open carry, but it can't be a semi automatic for instance? That would be a help.

It is gunnut propaganda to keep talking about the second amendment since amending the amendment would amending the constitution and that's a very difficult process. They want everyone to discuss the second amendment rather than what has already been decided by the Supreme Court in interpreting the second amendment: that it does not mean there can be no regulation of guns.

Guns can be regulated according to the Court's interpretation. So the question is what regulations are politically possible. The second amendment is not the issue.
 

pat c

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It is gunnut propaganda to keep talking about the second amendment since amending the amendment would amending the constitution and that's a very difficult process. They want everyone to discuss the second amendment rather than what has already been decided by the Supreme Court in interpreting the second amendment: that it does not mean there can be no regulation of guns.

Guns can be regulated according to the Court's interpretation. So the question is what regulations are politically possible. The second amendment is not the issue.

Well the US is between a rock and a hard place then. We have gun nuts here too, so I know it's just about impossible to have a civil, common sense discussion about guns. Tis sad.
 

BlueRidge

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Well the US is between a rock and a hard place then. We have gun nuts here too, so I know it's just about impossible to have a civil, common sense discussion about guns. Tis sad.
Yup but its politics and we're inching along.

OTOH, I could have said that 40 years ago...
 

puglover

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After the unimaginable tragedy of the little ones who lost their lives at Sandy Hook Elementary School, one would think it would not be so challenging to implement real change. I believe Obama was president then and still people "stuck to their guns", both literally and figuratively.
 

BlueRidge

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Have we moved a fraction of an inch forward or backward since then?
Unfortunately much more than a fraction of an inch backwards. For ten years or so assault rifles were banned. And this open carry insanity has been increasing at the state level.

I'm still optimistic though that some reason can prevail; that it is not about "taking the guns away" its about commonsense limits.
 

DFJ

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Some disturbing news coming out about the San Jose light transit rail shooter:

What a heartbreaking press conference going on. When, in God's name, are my friends to the south going to do something?! This is all beyond ludicrous.
 

ballettmaus

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Is shooting at a neighbor's puppy because he was running around in the yard the responsible gunownership Republicans are always talking about? https://abc13.com/mom-charged-after-bullet-targeted-for-loose-dog-strikes-her-son/10728726/
A mother has been charged after accidentally shooting her 5-year-old son while trying to shoot a dog that was running across the street in north Houston, according to Houston police.


Guns can be regulated according to the Court's interpretation. So the question is what regulations are politically possible. The second amendment is not the issue.
I somewhat disagree because the court rulings are, unfortunately, not set in stone. Just like with Roe v Wade, there's always the risk that a Supreme Court reverses an earlier decision.

I think that the only way to permanently solve the gun problem in the US is to amend the Constitution because so many are ignoring anything beyond the phrase "the right to bear arms". But I recognize how difficult that is and if we could get a new assault weapons ban and would be able to get background checks and stricter gun laws, it would likely help tremendously and make a huge difference.
 

Aussie Willy

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I think that the only way to permanently solve the gun problem in the US is to amend the Constitution because so many are ignoring anything beyond the phrase "the right to bear arms". But I recognize how difficult that is and if we could get a new assault weapons ban and would be able to get background checks and stricter gun laws, it would likely help tremendously and make a huge difference.
Classify the NRA as a terrorist organisation and ban them from making donations to politicians or from making political ads. That might go some way to sorting out the problem. Because they are contributing to the home grown terrorist problem.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Is shooting at a neighbor's puppy because he was running around in the yard the responsible gunownership Republicans are always talking about? https://abc13.com/mom-charged-after-bullet-targeted-for-loose-dog-strikes-her-son/10728726/
More of this is bound to happen considering the new TX law that allows gun owners with absolutely no training to carry their weapons wherever they want. What counts is getting to shoot the gun whenever they want, not the actual target.

I'm surprised she was even charged with a crime. Let's all watch while she gets out of it by citing the "terrible accident" defense. :rolleyes:
 

ballettmaus

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Artistic Skaters

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Just goes to show the "good guy with a gun" narrative doesn't take into consideration what happens when a lot of the so-called good guys with the guns are negligent when it comes to securing their weapons.
 

ballettmaus

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A guy went into a store in Georgia without a mask, argued with a cashier over it, left and returned with a gun to shoot the cashier. https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/14/us/georgia-deputy-shooting-decatur/index.html

Which militia was he on a mission for? Or was he defending his home?

There's little that can be done about the owning gun part but nowhere does it say that people also have the right to take their guns everywhere and where they can take their guns should be severely restricted.
 

Simone411

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I think this speaks for itself. The shootings in the Shreveport/Bossier City area are unreal and it's almost a daily thing.

 

ballettmaus

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A group that was set up by the parents of a child who died at Parkland, tricked the former NRA President and a gun rights advocate into speaking at a fake graduation. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...sident-gun-rights-advocate-speak-at-fake-high
The speeches were organized by the group Change the Ref, which was founded by Manuel and Patricia Oliver, whose son was killed in the 2018 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

The 3,044 chairs represent the students who did not graduate with the high school class of 2021 because they were killed by gun violence, according to a statement obtained by The Hill.

In the videos of the speeches, the speakers are seen delivering addresses to a Las Vegas-area high school named James Madison Academy, which does not exist.
 

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