The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

demetriosj

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But there's that anti-democratic electoral college, so let's not talk about votes, let's talk about states. ::blah:
Do you know something our Founding Fathers didn't? Are you suggesting getting rid of the electoral college in order to have California, New York, and Chicago determine who the president will be?
 

Zemgirl

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Are you suggesting getting rid of the electoral college in order to have California, New York, and Chicago determine who the president will be?
How often do candidates go to non-swing states? Why is it better to have a system in which Wisconsin matters more than Washington and West Virginia? Why is it better to live in a country in which Ohio voters can affect the election results, but conservatives in Oregon and liberals in Oklahoma might as well stay home?

Do you know something our Founding Fathers didn't?
Well, they lived in the 18th century, so presumably there are some things we know that they didn't.

Also, the electoral college was designed to give power to states in which some people counted less; and on the flip side, it was intended to avoid populists who could sway the uninformed masses. This should sound familiar to you, but it won't.
 
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caseyedwards

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America is federalism. You are abolishing states individual role in AMerican elections if you abolish electoral college: why should any state ever administer any presidential election ever again if they don’t matter in it? So then a new federal election agency would need to be established in all states unless of course constitutional amendment forced all states to administer new nationwide presidential election. But would that be ratified? States voting to abolish their role? lol
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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For those who favor our current system of having some people's votes count more than other people's, the good news is that it would take a constitutional amendment to eliminate the electoral college which means two thirds of Congress would have to vote for the amendment and then three quarters of the states would have to vote to ratify it.

In other words, don't lose sleep over it.
 

MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
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I'm talking about people I know, not people in general. I thought that was pretty clear, but I guess not.
I knew that. But was still surprised. Among my friends, people are fired up about Mayor Pete, Warren, and Bernie. And a fringe for Yang. All other candidates mentioned are more of "I think X might have a chance against Trump" instead of being fired up by X.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
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I knew that. But was still surprised. Among my friends, people are fired up about Mayor Pete, Warren, and Bernie. And a fringe for Yang. All other candidates mentioned are more of "I think X might have a chance against Trump" instead of being fired up by X.
Most of the people I know are Republicans or politically neutral, so that's a major factor. The Dems I know are more fired up about getting rid of Trump than any particular candidate.

The students who are engaged politically are nearly all Trump fans who are furious at his mistreatment. The rest mostly shrug.

This will change to some degree next year; I just don't know how much.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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We had for the first time the same paper ballots that get fed into a machine @Susan1 . PA still has straight party voting, so other than voting against a state Constitutional amendment, I just had one little dot to color in.

Spousal unit wore his brand new “Lock Him Up” sweatshirt. We live and vote in a working class neighborhood, we are old and white and as we exited, a woman said with a bright smile, lock her up? I said, no him, I love this great country of ours and we are embarrassed every day by the current occupant of the White House. Her face fell, but we wished each other good day and went on.

I’m usually not Little Miss Patriotic, but I do know how to talk to my neighbors. ;)

Joe Biden is the radical anti-corporate change we need here. If you’re not in Bethlehem’s 13th Ward, YMMV 🤷‍♀️
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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11,577
I voted in my muniicipal elections. And Democrats won all the town council seats. :)

Groton is a 50/50 kind of town, and Republicans had run it for years until the 2017 election.

The great thing here is we got 28% turnout for a municipal election. In the pouring down rain. Our turnout effort worked well. A lot of people, including me, spent the last week texting and phoning at Dem headquarters while other folks and candidates knocked on doors.

However, not all towns in our county went that way, so I am afraid this does not say anythinh much about 2020 election.

Our candidates ran on good results from their 2 years in power. Republicans ran on scare tactics related to our unpopular governor. It did not work.
 

clairecloutier

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9,676
@DORISPULASKI As of 6 pm last night, we had 22% turnout in our municipal elections. Polls closed at 8, so presumably the final tally was a bit higher. Not bad!

Glad the Dems were successful in your city!
 

Susan1

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5,547
So this is part "2020" and yesterday's off year election re voting systems.
Misc bits and pieces -

From a Bucyrus paper - (p.s. when I was little we went by a Bucyrus sign on the highway on the way to Toledo and I said Buckyruss. It’s pronounce Byu-cyrus (like Billy Ray and Miley). I still see it as Buckyruss. Hee hee)

"The voter will sign in at the sign-in table, and at that point, they will be given a voter ballot card," she said. "It will just have the precinct information on the top, so that they get the right ballot. It does not have the voter's name or personal information. They'll take that card over and they'll stick it into the new ExpressVote marker machine."

After marking the ballot, voters will print it out and review their selections.

(Here’s the thing (I sound like Mr. Monk. Ha ha) - I didn’t even look at mine when I took it out of the machine. The font was too small. When I first got there and she said they had paper ballots now. I said I didn’t bring my reading glasses and she said you can enlarge the font on the screen. Well, no, that was already gigantic. I thought I was going to have to read things on a “paper” ballot to vote.)

"If it's correct, take it over and put it into the scanner," Leuthold said.
“That's how the ballot is officially cast, she explained. If the ballot isn't placed in the scanner, it won't be counted.
"You've just got to remember to do the last step," she said.

(I was thinking when I was there - when it is crowded, you have to stand in line longways in the gymnasium, to get to the sign in table at the front, then you go over to the far wall in the gymnasium to the machine. When you push done, the paper comes back out. Then you have to come back across the gymnasium in front of the registration desk and all the people waiting, carrying the ballot, to put it in the scanner right by the door. If you are putting on your coat or talking to someone, you might just walk out with it (especially all the old people I saw in 2016 at that location during the day = me). And with it being a new thing, people won’t know why the ballot paper came back out. Or not notice it and walk away thinking they are finished, like before. I’m glad I went on a slow day before the busy 2020 election. I think the church where I vote will have to reconfigure how they do this though.)

Dayton Daily News -
“With the new machines in Montgomery County, voters check in like normal and then can either use a paper ballot or choose to do the entire ballot digitally. Once voters complete their ballot, it is printed and scanned into the ballot box.”

(Huh?)
……….
(And I mentioned this to the woman there) - “But some voters didn’t like how visible their screens were, Kelly said.

“With any new system you’re going to have some things that happen, everything is not going to run 100% smoothly,” Kelly said.

Kelly said the county will work to solve that issue by turning the screens a different direction and adding a screen protector to the polling machines, similar to the screen protectors on ATM machines.”

me - So this is really just paper back-up to electronic voting, not “paper ballots”.

Here's part of a paper ballots in Pennsylvania article -
“Voting in Lehigh County reminded some of a high school standardized test. This time they didn’t have to bring their own No. 2 pencils.
At the Jewish Community Center in west Allentown on Tuesday morning, Rich Reidy compared the county’s new paper ballots to the Scantrons of old with bubbles to fill in — with a pen, in this case.
Under the new system, voters are presented with a paper ballot when they register at their local polling place. Once the ballot is filled out, the voter feeds it into a machine, where it is scanned. The hard copy is stored in a locked container in the machine in case of a recount, Chief Clerk of Elections Tim Benyo said......

Voters who make an error on their paper ballot will be able to request a new ballot from a poll worker, he said.
That’s part of what bothered some of the voters at First Presbyterian Church in Allentown. On electronic machines, fixing a mistake was a matter of pushing an arrow to return to a previous screen, rather than starting over.”

Geez. I'm glad it we don't have "paper ballots".
 

clairecloutier

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9,676
Everytime I pull up a news site there's some pundit attacking Elizabeth Warren's health care plan. This is the most idiotic thing I've seen in a long time. This is one policy proposal among many among all the candidates. Most of the policy proposals aren't ever going to come to fruition as written for the campaign. But this particular one apparently merits completely different treatment as if it was the biggest threat of all time and the stupidest move a candidate ever made.

ETA: and since I wrote that I've seen more columns just at the Post and Times! The commentariat is absolutely hysterical about Elizabeth Warren today. Weird.

In regard to the negative press coverage around Warren recently, I think this opinion piece from Paul Waldman is instructive:


Waldman gets at what may be the heart of the matter:

But it’s clear in the venomous reactions Warren produces from the plutocrat class that they want not only to be able to be taxed and regulated as lightly as possible, they want to be told they deserve every bit of wealth and power they have.
I think a lot of very successful, well-off people in America firmly believe that their good fortune is entirely of their own making and that they deserve every bit of the money they've made (or have gotten, in one form or other). As they become more successful, they pride themselves more & more on how hard they work, their business acumen, their intelligence, etc. Their success is seen as proof of their personal worth.

If someone then suggests, as Warren does, that they may be the beneficiaries of institutional privilege and/or that they may not be fully and virtuously entitled to every dollar they have, that strikes at something core about how they perceive themselves and the world. Hence, the anger and venom in response.
 

BlueRidge

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I'm more inclined to see it as simpler: she threatens their power (really only slightly but ... )

Joe Biden is calling Warren elitist and condescending because she implied that he wasn't bothered by wealth controlling society. He says middle class people don't like that kind of know-it-all stuff. He sounds like he got his talking points from Republicans.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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I'm more inclined to see it as simpler: she threatens their power (really only slightly but ... )

Joe Biden is calling Warren elitist and condescending because she implied that he wasn't bothered by wealth controlling society. He says middle class people don't like that kind of know-it-all stuff. He sounds like he got his talking points from Republicans.
No, Biden sounds like he got talking points from Democrats in Lehigh and Northampton County, PA.

This is part of what I came back to say. Agree or disagree with Joe, fine and dandy.

But to say that he or his supporters sound Republican is elitist.
 

BlueRidge

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Civiqs polling of battleground states shows a tight presidential race, no matter who we nominate (Daily Kos)


On one hand we had the New York Times/Siena College poll of battleground states suggesting that Joe Biden is running ahead of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders against Donald Trump in general election matchups. On the other, the recent Washington Post poll that showed little difference between those three (though with implausibly big Democratic leads).

Today, Data for Progress and Civiqs released state tracking data showing not only that the race is close, but it hardly even matters who our nominee is. In the key battleground states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona, and North Carolina, it's scary close. Winnable close, but also losable close.
Polls are variable this far out but the reality is that until Democrats start voting in primaries we really don't know who the strongest candidates are. But we do know that for now Trump's base is holding strong. And that's scary.
 

MacMadame

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But to say that he or his supporters sound Republican is elitist.
You may not agree with that but there is nothing elitist about it. It's an opinion based on the fact that GOP opinion pieces were saying these things first.

The powerful are scared of Warren and that makes her a good candidate to me. :D
 

BlueRidge

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Right wing populism's bedrock is opposition to supposed "elites." Look at Steve Bannon. Its disappointing to see Biden using that rhetoric.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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You may not agree with that but there is nothing elitist about it. It's an opinion based on the fact that GOP opinion pieces were saying these things first.

The powerful are scared of Warren and that makes her a good candidate to me. :D
I like Liz. If she wins, I’ll vote and campaign, screaming and yelling and waving banners.

Some of the Democrats I know don’t read GOP opinion pieces, don’t care about Republican talking points, and believe what Biden said.
I just don’t like to see folks kidding themselves that Biden supporters are some kind of faux Republicans.

As I signed off before, just call me another corporate shill for Biden and Buttigieg 😁
 

mrinalini

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Just watched Ayanna Pressley's endorsement video of Warren on the latter's IG...chills. :love:


With this, she becomes the only member of the Squad to endorse Warren instead of Bernie. I had hoped she would seeing as she represents Massachusetts, and I had also read that she has close ties not just with Warren but also with Warren's campaign manager.

Good choice, Ms. Pressley! :cheer2:
 

MacMadame

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Some of the Democrats I know don’t read GOP opinion pieces, don’t care about Republican talking points, and believe what Biden said.
I just don’t like to see folks kidding themselves that Biden supporters are some kind of faux Republicans.
But Biden reads them. And now is spouting them. It's quite disappointing.

I don't see people telling themselves that Biden supporters are Republican-lite though. Most people I know who are supporting Biden are doing it because they think he's the most electable. They aren't particularly excited by him and I think that's a problem. But a different problem then them being secretly conservative.
 

BlueRidge

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Just watched Ayanna Pressley's endorsement video of Warren on the latter's IG...chills. :love:


With this, she becomes the only member of the Squad to endorse Warren instead of Bernie. I had hoped she would seeing as she represents Massachusetts, and I had also read that she has close ties not just with Warren but also with Warren's campaign manager.

Good choice, Ms. Pressley! :cheer2:
HOORAY!!!! :cheer2: this made my day. Love Ayanna Pressley!!

But Biden reads them. And now is spouting them. It's quite disappointing.

I don't see people telling themselves that Biden supporters are Republican-lite though. Most people I know who are supporting Biden are doing it because they think he's the most electable. They aren't particularly excited by him and I think that's a problem. But a different problem then them being secretly conservative.
I think there are those who think Biden is the best candidate given his experience. He's not Republican-lite, he's an Obama Democrat which is more moderate than the progressive wing. I don't have issues with that, the party has people who are moderate, liberal, and progressive and we have to find a candidate who brings its voters together.

I don't think Biden's use of the "elitist" rhetoric against progressives will help with that.
 

snoopy

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The Democrats would fare better IMO to create an issues based block rather than rely on individual people platforms. This strategy works incredibly well for the Republicans. Democratic platform does X for progressives, Y for suburbanites, Z for African-Americans - whatever the math required to get to 50.1% of votes. And then all the candidates have to tow that line. Its more reliable than finding the right candidate. So many people stick with Trump not because of Trump but because of the Republican platform.
 

PRlady

Nerdy flack
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The Democrats would fare better IMO to create an issues based block rather than rely on individual people platforms. This strategy works incredibly well for the Republicans. Democratic platform does X for progressives, Y for suburbanites, Z for African-Americans - whatever the math required to get to 50.1% of votes. And then all the candidates have to tow that line. Its more reliable than finding the right candidate. So many people stick with Trump not because of Trump but because of the Republican platform.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that getting progressives, liberals and moderate Dems to agree on a policy platform is herding cats -- which is insulting to felines. Only the clout of the eventual nominee enforces what's in the platform which is then merrily ignored for the next four years.
 

BlueRidge

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When we get to the general Dems need to talk in more general terms: health care, climate change, immigration reform. There may be tons of arguments internally on the details but there is broad agreement on needing to address these issues.
 

once_upon

New condo owner
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Don't know where else to put this, but since it relates to presidential elections..our church was a polling site for school board and city elections yesterday and the vote here signs were prominently displayed. I was answering phones today and a woman called who was scared she missed the presidential election. I assured her that was next year.

She said she wanted to make her vote count and it was scary how much mail she was getting from the Democrats. She was going to the county office today and register to make sure her vote count because those Democrats are scary. I started to say she was getting mail because the caucuses were coming early next year, but figured I would have to explain that process. Especially since she didn't know if she missed the presidential election or not.

My guess is she is a Trump supporter. I encouraged her to register to vote
 

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