The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

BittyBug

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Ted Cruz has to deal with sexism? Sorry possibly my brain is short-circuiting again.
You said:
And I think Harris and Gillibrand will run into that intangible "not likable" factor which is something that can't be discounted when the goal has to be to win, but it is actually really vile and disgusting when it isn't something men have to deal with, if you ask me.
And so my comment was in response to that. Yes, men have to deal with the intangible "not likable" factor as well.
 

BittyBug

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I think we agree that sexism exists, but where we may disagree is that I don't think it's insurmountable by the right candidate. Politics at the top tier discriminates against many people because it prizes charisma. A candidate can be exceptionally competent, but if he or she is dull or fails to engage with the average Jane or Joe that person will likely not get elected, regardless of gender. Look at Al Gore. He was arguably far, far more qualified that W yet he was not relatable. Meanwhile, W, a reformed alcoholic who doesn't drink, was perceived to be someone that people would want to have a beer with and he won.
 

DORISPULASKI

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I think Michelle Obama could pull it off: she is the most respected woman in the country...but some of her appeal to the general country is that she has never expressed an interest in public office. Hillary was the most respected woman until she ran for POTUS.
....
So perhaps Michelle could not clear the sexism hurdle either.
 

BlueRidge

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The Guardian gives us their list with snippets about 10 of them:

Elizabeth Warren is running – here are 10 others who may seek the Democratic nomination

Cory Booker
In New Hampshire in December, the Guardian watched as Booker tested out a “moral” message, avoiding a focus on Trump and telling his audience in Manchester: “This is not a time to meet hate with hate. It is not a time to meet darkness with darkness. The call of our country has always been love.”
(...I'm too cynical for this...)

Kirsten Gillibrand
It has been reported that she is having surprising difficulty in attracting donations because of her role in the resignation of Al Franken
(...where is my checkbook?)

Sherrod Brown
the Ohioan won re-election in November as Republicans dominated his Trump-voting state, partially as a result of openly proclaiming his “populist” bent.
(I'm interested in hearing what his foreign policy is)

They also mention others one of the more interesting of whom is John Hickenlooper
a cross-party pal of John Kasich, the Ohio Republican who looks set to primary Trump
 

BittyBug

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Here's what I think. In January of 2006 we had no idea that Obama would be a candidate, much less THE candidate. I just think that someone that none of us has yet though of is going to emerge.
 

Andora

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Here's what I think. In January of 2006 we had no idea that Obama would be a candidate, much less THE candidate. I just think that someone that none of us has yet though of is going to emerge.
Nyet, a lot of people were excited for him and expecting it when he came to prominence in 2004.
 

Artistic Skaters

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While I like Sherrod Brown, it's probably more important to keep him in the Senate.
Exactly. I'd gladly vote for Sherrod Brown for president, yet I don't want to vote for Sherrod Brown for president. A GOP appointee would be the sure thing to replace him. We would suffer for four years to take one for the team, & still be subjected to the mockery of cornfields & flyover states we get here at FSU.

Although in a case of strange bedfellows, George Will is so desperate to get Trump out of office, he wrote a column in favor of Sherrod Brown. :lol:

*** George F. Will: Sherrod Brown, a lefty who could win in 2020 :
https://www.ohio.com/opinion/20181212/george-f-will-sherrod-brown-lefty-who-could-win-in-2020
 
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Japanfan

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But do you really think that women candidates don't have a disadvantage because of sexism? And not just one of males who don't want to vote for a woman, but of implicit biases that are inherent in our society that we don't even always recognize immediately?
Internalized misogyny, which can afflict women as well as men. :(:mad:

I think Michelle Obama could pull it off: she is the most respected woman in the country...but some of her appeal to the general country is that she has never expressed an interest in public office. Hillary was the most respected woman until she ran for POTUS.

So perhaps Michelle could not clear the sexism hurdle either.
I don't why people think of Michelle Obama as a political candidate. She has no political experience (beyond being First Lady, which isn't the same as holding office).

I remember people saying that Obama should have run rather than Clinton, which completely disregarded all of the experience Clinton has.
 

DORISPULASKI

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Internalized misogyny, which can afflict women as well as men. :(:mad:



I don't why people think of Michelle Obama as a political candidate. She has no political experience (beyond being First Lady, which isn't the same as holding office).

I remember people saying that Obama should have run rather than Clinton, which completely disregarded all of the experience Clinton has.
i do not think Michelle has any interest in running for anything, but in the Democratic Party, a lack of political experience does not seem to be valued very much, witness B. Obama. Democrats seem to value charisma and likeableness more. We were just lucky he was also very smart.

We also have had calls for Oprah to run; she has less political experience than Michelle, who although not running, had a front row seat for everything.

Outside the party, Trump has no experience, no competence, and frankly, no brains, and was elected.

Sometime, we as a country may start to value experience, intelligence, and competence. Perhaps our troubles under Trump may have taught us something. Perhaps we will stop demonizing experienced, competent people as elites.

I hope so, but have not seen it yet.
 
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Vash01

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i do not think Michelle has any interest in running for anything, but in the Democratic Party, a lack of political experience does not seem to be valued very much, witness B. Obama. Democrats seem to value charisma and likeableness more. we were just lucky he was also very smart.

We also have had calls for Oprah to run; she has less political experience than Michelle, who although not running, had a front row seat for everything.

Outside the party, Trump has no experience, no competence, and frankly, no brains, and was elected.

Sometime, we as a country may start to value experience, intelligence, and competence. Perhaps our troubles under Trump may have taught us something. Perhaps we will stop demonizing experienced, competent people as elites.

I hope so, but have not seen it yet.
It started with GWB. Moderately experienced. Low on intelligence. Low on competence. Likable to the average person. We were lucky to get Obama after him.
 

olympic

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It started with GWB. Moderately experienced. Low on intelligence. Low on competence. Likable to the average person. We were lucky to get Obama after him.
I agree, but being Governor of a large state is good experience. HOW he governed is another debate altogether.
 

caseyedwards

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It started with GWB. Moderately experienced. Low on intelligence. Low on competence. Likable to the average person. We were lucky to get Obama after him.
And continued with Palin being promoted by most conservatives as being qualified and capable taking over for mccain if he died! It’s amazing how Palins biggest supporters are trumps biggest haters!!
 

once_upon

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I think that sexism and racism are going to be big barriers to any candidate. This country is stuck in white man dominance. Most of the names mentioned in this thread will be fighting one or both of those barriers.
 

caseyedwards

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I think that sexism and racism are going to be big barriers to any candidate. This country is stuck in white man dominance. Most of the names mentioned in this thread will be fighting one or both of those barriers.
I don’t agree because No one can dispute Americans strident love affair with Obama!
 

once_upon

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I don’t agree because No one can dispute Americans strident love affair with Obama!
You obviously have not read the Facebook posts of my ex-coworkers. Or my inlaws, or my nieces. As far as I can determine Obama and Clinton are worse than any monster one can name. How dare a black man become president and even worse a woman thought she should be president...
 

caseyedwards

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You obviously have not read the Facebook posts of my ex-coworkers. Or my inlaws, or my nieces. As far as I can determine Obama and Clinton are worse than any monster one can name. How dare a black man become president and even worse a woman thought she should be president...
But they Won the popular vote!! No one can deny Americans wanted them to be president and rejected the republicans
 

caseyedwards

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Most are saying Romney oped is about him declaring for the 2020 presidential nomination but I just thought it was about trying to encourage democrats to impeach so he can vote to remove trump. He will become a senator Thursday and he announced for president already? But I can see how it can be read as the first republican to announce they are running against trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...a3c8c2-0d1a-11e9-8938-5898adc28fa2_story.html
 

ballettmaus

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Dems need the votes of left, progressive, liberal, moderate and centrists to win. I hope candidates are looking at how they can bridge the differences between these groups and bring them together for a strong general election campaign.
I think the person who can bridge the difference would be the ideal candidate but I'm not sure if I think that any of the potential candidates actually can do it. That said, I really, really hope that the person who gets the nomination can.



I'm opposed to any attempt to win Trump voters. Some of them will wander over of their own accord, but given that "trying" to win them means giving credence to Trumpian sentiments, just flat out no.
Agreed. I think that Democrats need to do what they did at midterms: concentrate on turnout and get voters to vote. They need non-voters more than they need Trump voters.



Trump shows that Anyone can be elected president. I don’t believe Warren is unelectable.
Trump cheated. Anyone can win when they cheat, so I don't think we can draw any conclusions from that about the electability of Warren.



But they do. See Ted Cruz as an example.
But he still doesn't get primaried and Republicans still vote for him. Are we sure this would be the case if he were a woman?



Look at Al Gore. He was arguably far, far more qualified that W yet he was not relatable. Meanwhile, W, a reformed alcoholic who doesn't drink, was perceived to be someone that people would want to have a beer with and he won.
Gore might have won had they finished the Florida recount. I know I sound like a broken record but I don't think we can draw conclusions based on flawed elections since the result is flawed. We don't really know how important likeability is since we don't really know who was actually elected.



Outside the party, Trump has no experience, no competence, and frankly, no brains, and was elected.
See above ;) But he did seem to have won the nomination.

But Trump's cheating aside, I don't think I ever want someone else without any experience as President. At the very least, I don't want anyone without any political experience in the near future. I think experience is needed not only to bridge the differences within the country but also to patch up the international relationships.
 

olympic

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Gore might have won had they finished the Florida recount. I know I sound like a broken record but I don't think we can draw conclusions based on flawed elections since the result is flawed. We don't really know how important likeability is since we don't really know who was actually elected.
Palm Beach county finished its manual recount outside the deadline, so then-SoS Katherine Harris refused to accept the results, but it would have brought the margin from 537 down to somewhere between 150-200 votes, IIRC. Also, Miami-Dade County, the 3rd county in which the Gore campaign had requested a manual recount, never got off the ground because the BOE was being terrorized by a bunch of white, male Republican operatives who were bussed in and breaking down the doors (literally). They were screaming about the election being stolen and it was later dubbed the Brooks Brothers riot because they were in suits. But, that might have put Gore over the top if all 3 counties had been organized and ready.
 

BittyBug

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But he still doesn't get primaried and Republicans still vote for him. Are we sure this would be the case if he were a woman?
Warren didn't get primaried either. For Senator. My comments were in reference to candidates for POTUS, where "likability/relatability" for better or worse is an issue. Ted Cruz didn't make it as a candidate for POTUS an one of the main reasons cited was that he is not well-liked. Certainly on policy issues he is pretty mainstream right-wing Republican.
 

clairecloutier

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Oregon Senator Jeff Merkley has put out a new "Blueprint for Our Democracy" plan. The key issues addressed in the plan are 1) getting rid of dark money/corporate influence in politics, 2) eliminating gerrymandering, 3) voter rights, 4) equal representation for PR, Washington DC, etc.

https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Blueprint Report FINAL.pdf

First step toward a presidential run??
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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What do you guys think about this article?

For Bernie Sanders, Claims of Sexism in 2016 Campaign Hang Over 2020 Bid

Apparently, there are a lot of angry former campaign staffers due to the various counts of sexual harassment and finding out about unequal pay between men and women who worked in similar positions, and criticism of Sanders lack of comment/attention on the issue. One woman who worked on the campaign was quoted as essentially saying with the #metoo movement and other progressive movements that happened, we may have moved beyond Sanders.
 

ballettmaus

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Warren didn't get primaried either. For Senator.
But she's popular in her state, isn't she? Ted Cruz isn't.



My comments were in reference to candidates for POTUS, where "likability/relatability" for better or worse is an issue. Ted Cruz didn't make it as a candidate for POTUS an one of the main reasons cited was that he is not well-liked. Certainly on policy issues he is pretty mainstream right-wing Republican.
I thought you meant in general but at the point of primaries, Trump wasn't well-liked either though, was he? People liked that he wasn't "establishment" but they didn't necessarily like him.



What do you guys think about this article?
I just saw it and my first thought was: the sexual harrassment case in Clinton's campaign came out during the MeToo debate and the MSM tried to use it to paint her as a villain yet again but would there have been an article on Sanders' campaign if Sanders wasn't getting ready to run again?

As far as the content of the article, I'm not really that surprised because that is the image that I had of him. Just another privileged white man.
 

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