The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

topaz

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14,341
Wow. I cannot get past your view on Assange and your minimization of his role in throwing the 2016 election. Oh, and let’s continue to remember he is a self aggrandizing creep who smeared feces on the walls of the Ecuadorian embassy during a temper tantrum, and who is / was accused of sexual misconduct in Sweden. A real hero of journalism!

Also you don’t defend her role in some of the events I pointed out like her refusal to step up against Bannon. You note that it doesn’t matter. Your other defense in her jumping in to meet Trump is ‘well other Democrats did it too’. Not strong enough to convince people that she is a great choice

And why is it so hard for her to call out Assad?

Another question that popped up in my head is she discusses regime change by Clinton and Obama and how it led to several world crises, but I didn’t find any criticisms by her of regime change by Bush in Iraq, which led to the birth of ISIL.
Gabbard has repeated spoken about her tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the things she saw and experienced effected her. She feels betrayed that the American People and the World were lied to by the Bush Admin. She's also spoken about the working conditions of the "third party country workers".

I just responded to your original post. If we're all are going to have a healthy debate about the candidates, then we should examine the records for all the candidates.

She's called Assad a dictator in fact she's said he was brutal dictator and has not disputed the reference to war crimes in Syria. My opinion is whatever says she not going to be enough for Democrats. This has been a democrat led narrative against Tulsi Gabbard because of her stance against Regime Changes in other countries who have resources that the US foreign policy would love to get their hands on by any means necessary. The military industrial complex is REAL and ALIVE in the beltway. Members of both Democrats and Repubicans want it to continue.

She was a rising star a few years, then she resigned from DNC, supported Bernie Sanders and now "They don't her"(meme Mariah Carey saying she didn't know Jennifer Lopez).

The "Assad Apologist" and "A friend to Assad" narrative is there to smear her. Does anyone really believe she's Assad's friend?

Again, my job is not to "convince" anyone to vote for anyone. I just wanted to point out that Gabbard did not visit Syria and Egypt alone. In regards to the Egyptian trip I wanted to clarify the first meeting was in Paris and then she and others traveled to Cairo.

I think it's good we all have a healthy debate the candidates and their records.
 
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topaz

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14,341
Speaking of a healthy debates:

Kamala Harris
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/kamala-harris-criminal-justice.html

“Time after time, when progressives urged her to embrace criminal justice reforms as a district attorney and then the state’s attorney general, Ms. Harris opposed them or stayed silent. Most troubling, Ms. Harris fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions that had been secured through official misconduct that included evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of crucial information by prosecutors.

  • 2010 for withholding information about a police laboratory technician who had been accused of ‘intentionally sabotaging’ her work and stealing drugs from the lab. When the memo surfaced that her deputies (no Harris particularly) knew that the evidence was tampered and of the recent conviction but decided to not tell the defense attorneys nor the judge in the case. When a superior court judge condemned her office's dishonesty and Harris’s indifference to the systemic violation of the defendants’ constitutional rights. More than 600 cases were dismissed as a result of the Lab Tech's negligence Harris DA of San Francisco at the time.
  • Kevin Cooper, the death row inmate whose trial was infected by racism and corruption. He sought advanced DNA testing to prove his innocence, but Ms. Harris opposed it. Evidence appears to exonerate (After The New York Times’s exposé of the case went viral, she reversed her position.) It appeared law enforcement planted evidence and ignored statements by witnesses that pointed to other possible suspects. He's been on death row more than 30 years. Haris refused to allow modern DNA testing to this case and up until May 2018 per New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristoff, "“showed no interest in the case.” Kristoff has written about the case extensively. February 2019, Gov. Newsom ordered extensive testing.
  • George Gage - convicted on testimony from his stepdaughter Marian who was accused of sexually assaulting. it came out afterwards that the prosecutor had held back a lot of important information that he was required to turn over including psychiatric and medical records .The trial judge confronted with this evidence reacted really strongly and overturned the conviction but it was reinstated on appeal because ironically, the jury never considered the evidence because of course, they were not allowed to. Harris decision was to defend the conviction on a technicality. And so, she sent her deputies in to argue that George Gage should not get relief because when he was in federal court, in front of the trial judge, forced to be his own lawyer — because in habeas, you do not have the right to a lawyer — he failed to state the claim in exactly the way that he was required to do, the way that the law mandated. And that was the argument her deputies made. Gage is around 80 years old and still in prision.
  • Daniel Larsen - 1999 case convicted of possession of a concealed weapon — after two police officers testified that they saw him throw a knife under a car in the parking lot. The California Innocence Project the police officers who testified at his trial were not credible, and his trial attorney was constitutionally ineffective for failing to call witnesses on his behalf.” The who testified at his trial were not credible, and his trial attorney was constitutionally ineffective for failing to call witnesses on his behalf.” the police officers who testified at his trial were not credible, and his trial attorney was constitutionally ineffective for failing to call witnesses on his behalf.” Before Larsen was released, the Harris as Cali's AG appealed the judge’s ruling, arguing that even if Larsen was innocent of the crime, he shouldn’t be released and his conviction shouldn’t be overturned because he had waited too long to file his paperwork.
  • A pattern of when progressives requested that she do more to reform the criminal justice system which is institutionally racist Harris either remained silent or she opposed measures.
  • She opposed a bill requiring her office to investigate shootings involving police officers.
  • California’s death penalty was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge, Harris, then attorney general, appealed that ruling.
  • She giggled while talking about threatening to lock up parents. Also, she mentioned that she was going to use her "political capital" regarding the truancy law.
    This is a serious political issue, and I’ve got a little political capital, and I’m going to spend some of it.” She added, “We recognized that, in law enforcement, I’ve got a huge stick. The school district has a carrot. Let’s work in tandem.” She laughingly described telling her assistant DAs to look as “mean” as possible when they went to meet with parents to warn them that they could face prosecution if their children were truant.
Now, people change, politicians’ views evolve over time, and some of these issues about Harris that are being raised go back almost a decade. Programs like Back On Track that tried to divert non-violent first offenders was a program she introduced during her time as "Top Cop" of California. Her record is full of contradictions to her self professed claim as "progressive prosecutor".
 
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topaz

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14,341
Some other noteworthy things regarding Harris' record:

  • One case involved Shiloh Quine, who’s serving a term of life and the other case involved Michelle-Lael Norsworthy, who was serving time in prison for second-degree murder. Both were prescribed gender reassignment surgery, but the California Department of Corrections & Rehabilitation refused to provide the procedure. Harris has a very strong pro-LGBTQ record but she decided to refuse the medically advised surgery.
  • Harris' record as AG is particularly problematic in regarding the California Conservation Camp project. California prisoners are paid $1.45/hr to fight wildfires in California today. However, it has reported that during Harris' AG time some of the prisoners wages range from "8 cents to 37 cents per hour."
    Approximately 4,400 California prisoners help the state battle wildfires, at wages of about $2 a day. There is an exception in the agreement that allows the state to retain firefighters — but only firefighters — who are otherwise eligible for release
    . That's a fraction of a minimum wage in ANY state in the US. The debate about prison labor should be discussed/debated. I personally believe it is major factor in the decisions of private prisons running the majority of the country's prison system. The prisons pay for this labor is lucrative, but now for the prisoners who are effectively slaves. This is exploitation and many times abuse.
    In 2014 the California prison system was ordered by a federal court to grant early release credits to minimum security prisoners to comply with a population cap imposed by the U.S. Supreme Court. The state’s lawyers argued against such early releases on the ground that they would “severely impact fire camp participation.”

Guess who was AG in the state of California in 2014. So she and her lawyers kept prisons in prison longer so they could fight wildfires. Cheap labor that doesn't have rights is a winning scenario for many in this country. Hell, its the foundation of our country.

13th Amendment
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
 
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VGThuy

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29,754
Yep and guess when prisons as we know them became normalized? That’s right, after the passage of the 13th Amendment and when they had all these newly freed slaves they wanted to put back into slavery in some other form.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
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32,300
Gabbard has repeated spoken about her tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the things she saw and experienced effected her. She feels betrayed that the American People and the World were lied to by the Bush Admin. She's also spoken about the working conditions of the "third party country workers".

I just responded to your original post. If we're all are going to have a healthy debate about the candidates, then we should examine the records for all the candidates.

She's called Assad a dictator in fact she's said he was brutal dictator and has not disputed the reference to war crimes in Syria. My opinion is whatever says she not going to be enough for Democrats. This has been a democrat led narrative against Tulsi Gabbard because of her stance against Regime Changes in other countries who have resources that the US foreign policy would love to get their hands on by any means necessary. The military industrial complex is REAL and ALIVE in the beltway. Members of both Democrats and Repubicans want it to continue.

She was a rising star a few years, then she resigned from DNC, supported Bernie Sanders and now "They don't her"(meme Mariah Carey saying she didn't know Jennifer Lopez).

The "Assad Apologist" and "A friend to Assad" narrative is there to smear her. Does anyone really believe she's Assad's friend?

Again, my job is not to "convince" anyone to vote for anyone. I just wanted to point out that Gabbard did not visit Syria and Egypt alone. In regards to the Egyptian trip I wanted to clarify the first meeting was in Paris and then she and others traveled to Cairo.

I think it's good we all have a healthy debate the candidates and their records.
For your information, every human rights activist I know who works on the Middle East considers Gabbard an Assad apologist and beyond the pale. Her only defenders are the truly kooky like Max Blumenthal whose hatred of the US and Israel means that their adversaries, including Assad, Hezbollah and Iran, are fine folks.

If she were the nominee, I wouldn’t vote. She’s literally the only one of the 22 I’d say that about except for Williamson. So if you think I’m a tool of the corporate media say so, but that woman (a Modi supporter, as well) is bad news.
 

olympic

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9,130
Gabbard has repeated spoken about her tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the things she saw and experienced effected her. She feels betrayed that the American People and the World were lied to by the Bush Admin. She's also spoken about the working conditions of the "third party country workers".

I just responded to your original post. If we're all are going to have a healthy debate about the candidates, then we should examine the records for all the candidates.

She's called Assad a dictator in fact she's said he was brutal dictator and has not disputed the reference to war crimes in Syria. My opinion is whatever says she not going to be enough for Democrats. This has been a democrat led narrative against Tulsi Gabbard because of her stance against Regime Changes in other countries who have resources that the US foreign policy would love to get their hands on by any means necessary. The military industrial complex is REAL and ALIVE in the beltway. Members of both Democrats and Repubicans want it to continue.

She was a rising star a few years, then she resigned from DNC, supported Bernie Sanders and now "They don't her"(meme Mariah Carey saying she didn't know Jennifer Lopez).

The "Assad Apologist" and "A friend to Assad" narrative is there to smear her. Does anyone really believe she's Assad's friend?

Again, my job is not to "convince" anyone to vote for anyone. I just wanted to point out that Gabbard did not visit Syria and Egypt alone. In regards to the Egyptian trip I wanted to clarify the first meeting was in Paris and then she and others traveled to Cairo.

I think it's good we all have a healthy debate the candidates and their records.
You're mixing a lot of personal opinion in here. I agree that we can have a healthy debate about the candidate, but like @PRlady Gabbard is the one candidate I don't think I can vote for.
 

ballettmaus

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11,974
Biden's campaign is busy doing damage control after his immigration remarks during the last debate. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/14/joe-biden-latinos-immigration-2020-1461341


Though he acknowledged some people were upset or confused by Biden’s comments, Alex downplayed the extent of the controversy, pointing out that Biden has long been well-respected by Latino leaders and that he has impressed members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
I think the campaign needs to stop relying on what Biden was in the past. He's not going to be President in the past.
 

caseyedwards

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12,534
If any democrat believes they can support denying entry to or deportion of anyone but proven gang members they are wrong!!!
 

Vash01

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Biden said that he met with Parkland students on Saturday. I'm assuming he met Sandy Hook students? https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/11/politics/joe-biden-parkland-victims/index.html

Considering that he's had two aneurysms, I hope that behind-the-scenes they don't just shrug it off as gaffes. There were so many of them in such a short amount of time.
His aneurisms and gaffes didn’t keep him from being a beloved and successful VP. If we can tolerate or ignore Trump,I see no reason to make a big noise about Biden’s Gaffes.
 

Vash01

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I don't know if someone said it here or elsewhere, but now it's reached the news media that Hickenlooper is supposedly considering a Senate run. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457324-hickenlooper-considering-ending-presidential-bid-to-run-for-senate-report
It was on MSNBC last night. He is expected to make the announcement soon. He has a big lead in the polls for Senator, over the incumbent republican. Good chance to add a Senate seat for the Dems. If Beto follows suit and runs for the Texas Senate, and wins, even better.
 

ballettmaus

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His aneurisms and gaffes didn’t keep him from being a beloved and successful VP. If we can tolerate or ignore Trump,I see no reason to make a big noise about Biden’s Gaffes.
Aneurysms put him at a greater risk for strokes and mini-strokes (and possibly other things that I'm not thinking about right now). I agree that so far, the news media shouldn't make an issue out of it. But if it continues and if it also happens privately then it helps no one, the least of all him, if his family and staff ignores it.
 

Vash01

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Aneurysms put him at a greater risk for strokes and mini-strokes (and possibly other things that I'm not thinking about right now). I agree that so far, the news media shouldn't make an issue out of it. But if it continues and if it also happens privately then it helps no one, the least of all him, if his family and staff ignores it.
Even in 2008 they had similar concerns about him when Obama selected him for VP.
 

oleada

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39,692
And then there were 23........

Here’s Hickenlooper’s video. If he runs for the U.S. Senate, I’m not convinced that he would beat Cory Gardner. Or even win the Democratic nomination.
Not sure about the reliability of this, but polls are showing that he has a lead over all the Democratic candidates and a 51-38 lead over Gardner:

 

clairecloutier

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One new poll in Iowa has Warren leading at 28%, ahead of Biden and Sanders, tied at 17%, Buttigieg in 4th with 13%. :respec: :eek:

Granted, it’s only one poll, of about 600 Iowa Caucus voters. Still, I think it’s the first to show Warren in the lead? Hmmmm ....

 

once_upon

New condo owner
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One new poll in Iowa has Warren leading at 28%, ahead of Biden and Sanders, tied at 17%, Buttigieg in 4th with 13%. :respec: :eek:

Granted, it’s only one poll, of about 600 Iowa Caucus voters. Still, I think it’s the first to show Warren in the lead? Hmmmm ....

I'm not in Iowa, but just 2 miles across the border, I would caucus for Warren over Sanders and Biden. FWIW she has had at least 2, maybe 3, rallies in Council Bluffs.

Although based upon some friends political views I don't know that Democrats have a chance in solidly Republican right wing party this close to solidly Republican state of Nebraska. Maybe the farm crisis will change that, but I doubt it.
 

VGThuy

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29,754
Yeah, I don’t know about Nebraska, but Obama won Iowa in 2008 and 2012. I know 2008 would be 12 years ago and 2012 would be 8 years ago by 2020, but that should give us some hope..
 

ballettmaus

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There is a new Ukraine story, this time, it's about Biden's brother.
If Biden is the nominee, Republicans will have a field day with his family's entanglement with Ukrainian nationals and if the news media hasn't learned from 2016 (which I don't think they have) it will be very bad.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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7,003
One new poll in Iowa has Warren leading at 28%, ahead of Biden and Sanders, tied at 17%, Buttigieg in 4th with 13%. :respec: :eek:
Trump's comments about Elizabeth Warren at his recent campaign rally:
"I did the Pocahontas thing. I hit her really hard and it looked like she was down and out but that was too long ago," he said of Warren, who is seeking the Democratic Party's nomination to run against Trump in 2020.

"But don't worry, we will revive it. It can be revived. It will be revived and it can be revived very easily and very quickly and we're going to have some fun in the state of New Hampshire," he said.
I'm wondering if he will harp on her as Pocahontas at his own peril. I have run into a lot of independents and suburban voters who have become very uncomfortable when he does this. It seems like there are quite a few changed minds who now consider his Pocahontas remarks as disparaging to Native Americans, not just Elizabeth Warren. Of course, his rally people will love it but it sounds like he'll need as many of those independents and suburbanites as he can get for 2020.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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Speaking of suburban voters, the progressive wing of the Dems won't help my congressional district for 2020 because they're too busy trying to primary Joyce Beatty (a liberal black woman) in the solidly Dem district four blocks away from me while twittering about how we all need to respect the congresswomen of color. :rolleyes:

I'm aggravated with the progressives this election cycle. I have consistently voted for the progressive candidates for city council and school board since I moved back here because I believe they deserve a seat at the table. They have not been able to turn one seat over the years even with only 15% turnout, so it's not like they didn't have a fair chance if they got voters to the polls. This time I'm not buying the idea that all they need is their own exciting candidate to GOTV and beat Trump 2020. The people I know who say they aren't going to vote this time unless Sanders, Warren or Gabbard is the nominee can carry on with their "who cares - Trump will be a lame duck" comments, but they're going to lose future support from voters like me who have been supporting their causes & local elections for years because these are desperate times.

However, the good news here is that the DCCC added my district as a targeted district to turn from GOP to Dem. They, unlike the progressives, think it's possible to turn the seat with more voter turnout from the suburbs. It was close in 2016 and it hasn't been since the unprincipled gerrymanders drew the last map boundaries. Also we are the most populous area in the state so any additional turnout they get from the suburbs here can really help the statewide anti-Trump vote.

The other districts they are going to pay extra attention to are Florida's 16th District, Iowa's 2nd District, Michigan's 3rd District, Virginia's 5th District and Montana's at-large district (Gianforte the journalist assaulter is running for governor). So thanks DCCC and I'm not even a Democrat. :lol:
 
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Vash01

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For your information, every human rights activist I know who works on the Middle East considers Gabbard an Assad apologist and beyond the pale. Her only defenders are the truly kooky like Max Blumenthal whose hatred of the US and Israel means that their adversaries, including Assad, Hezbollah and Iran, are fine folks.

If she were the nominee, I wouldn’t vote. She’s literally the only one of the 22 I’d say that about except for Williamson. So if you think I’m a tool of the corporate media say so, but that woman (a Modi supporter, as well) is bad news.
Neither of those two is likely to be the democratic nominee, soI am not worried but they need to get out of the race so the contenders can make some progress.
 

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