The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
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21,466
Not questioning if a human being deserves healthcare. Putting words in my mouth. It's a matter of who ends up paying for it. Ok, so according to you, the US taxpayer should be responsible for covering health care for basically everyone and anyone in the world who wants to come here, illegally or not? How in the world could that be financially feasible?
I don't know how much coverage the Canadian and other public healthcare systems provide to people who are in the country illegally. I would expect there is compassionate care provided to refugees who are here seeking asylum, but also expect that there would be limitations to the healthcare provided to non-Canadian citizens/residents/workers, if any healthcare was offered to those people at all. Non-Canadians citizens/residents/workers can't just show up at a Canadian doctor's office or hospital and expect their care to be paid for by Canadian taxpayers.

However, demetriosj, there is reason for the term 'universal healthcare'. Residents, immigrant residents, and refugees/asylum seekers (presumably) are entitled to receive care in the public health system. The concept of public health care is based on the view that care is a 'right' and the view that equal access to healthcare makes society better for all. And taxpayers contribute to the system believing that to be the case.

It is financially feasible for pretty much all countries in the western developed world - though many of those systems are in crises these days, especially given that populations are aging.

But I don't think you'll find anyone in those countries who prefers a private system, unless they are very wealthy.
 

topaz

Well-Known Member
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14,341
Well if you have extra cash to donate to illegal's health care, go right ahead and donate it to the cause. Don't expect US taxpayers to be able to afford any more taxes, especially to pay for health care for people here illegally. Most of us can't afford to be taxed anymore than we are already.
But Trump gave a tax credit to ALL US taxpayers right? The tax deductions that corporations and the rich receive are the reasons that most Americans may pay more in taxes. But you can blame healthcare costs for undocumented immigrants if you want. I guarantee if you're not self employed, the CEO of your employer pays less taxes(federal) than you.
But you're ignorance as to what your tax dollars go towards is showing. You believe that undocumented folks are taking your money but you have no problem with the rich and persons who over a certain annual salary paying less in taxes than you.

States have more flexibility with their health care spending. Also, It's about doing what is right and humane. It's inhumane to allow anyone suffer unnecessarily due to an illness or medical condition because they are not a citizen of a nation. In fact, it's cruel. If an old lady needs her diabetes meds and she's seeks asylum by your standards she should not receive medical attention(prescriptions) and just be allowed to go into a diabetic coma and die.

You better never travel outside the country and need medical attention, you may find yourself in a situation that your US HEALTH INSURANCE may not be accepted.

ETA: I live in Wisconsin. Wisconsin's law:
You or your family may be able to get health care coverage even if you are not a U.S. citizen or legal resident. You do not need a sponsor. If you meet all program rules, you may be able to get health care:
For your children who were born in the U.S.,
• If you are a pregnant woman, or
• If you have a medical emergency
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/publications/p1/p10164.pdf

Not sure of your state, but Wisconsin had a PRICK as a governor for more than 8 years(until recently). Medical coverage for undocumented folks outside of the criteria I listed above does not happen. In fact, many undocumented workers in Wisconsin pay out of pocket for healthcare. For example, if an undocumented worker needs meds they pay prescription costs for themselves. So stop writing like undocumented workers are getting unnecessary medical treatments.

Lastly, undocumented immigrants contribute to their communities; sales, property, and state income taxes for Wisconsin. A few years ago a report stated that Wisconsin would lose almost 3b without undocumented workers.
 
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Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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11,173
But... is she wrong, though? Trump was successful in stepping out in front amid a crowded group. He dominated the conversation. I've seen it happen in other elections elsewhere. No one is commanding a lead right now in the Democratic leadership race, even though it's crowded race with solid candidates. Even if you could argue the Republicans didn't run any real future stars in 2016, someone should be a bigger deal by now other than Biden's nostalgia lead.

The field still seems open if you can make an impact. So far, everyone still joining seems to have an over-inflated sense of their said potential impact. :p
 

Peaches LaTour

Well-Known Member
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1,815
I don't think ALL Republicans are the problem, just those who voted for Trump or one of his enablers. So rather than all, we should say that the vast majority of Republicans are the problem. :shuffle:
Trump Republicans are definitely the problem. Non-Trump Republicans are the problem, too, because they are too cowardly to stand up for their country, their party & their own dignity.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,173
Trump Republicans are definitely the problem. Non-Trump Republicans are the problem, too, because they are too cowardly to stand up for their country, their party & their own dignity.
Outside of lawmakers, I imagine non-Trump Republicans aren't cowards... they just enjoy enough perks (tax breaks, etc.) to not get fussed over some issues they don't see as important enough. Imvho.
 

Peaches LaTour

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1,815
Outside of lawmakers, I imagine non-Trump Republicans aren't cowards... they just enjoy enough perks (tax breaks, etc.) to not get fussed over some issues they don't see as important enough. Imvho.
I am talking about those in the Senate who are allowing Trump to defecate on our Constitution.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C
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47,325
If he becomes the nominee I will vote for him over Trump any day. But Biden and Sanders have at least 3 things against them in my book. 1. OLD 2. WHITE 3. MEN.

I hope that the comments that Biden "looks more presidential" aren't true. Because if they are, it means that the status quo of old white men being more presidential that say a woman, a person of color, a gay candidate, etc.

I would hope that we could move away from the patriarchal society, but looks like we aren't.
Biden is the most experienced candidate with the most name recognition. If you want to reject him for being white, old, male, you are showing bias too. If you disagree with his policy, philosophy, etc. I can accept that.
 

Japanfan

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21,466
Biden is the most experienced candidate with the most name recognition. If you want to reject him for being white, old, male, you are showing bias too. If you disagree with his policy, philosophy, etc. I can accept that.
White, old, wealthy men control the machinations of the world and and hold a very disproportionate number of high positions in public life and most facets of business/social life. Wanting people in power to more accurately represent the populations they wield power over is a fair call. I don't think 'bias' is the right word here - rather, the call is to address bias.
 

topaz

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14,341
Biden is the most experienced candidate with the most name recognition. If you want to reject him for being white, old, male, you are showing bias too. If you disagree with his policy, philosophy, etc. I can accept that.

Biden just represents status quo for me. Lots of people were struggling under a status quo political system and going back to that because we've experienced a republican agenda is not going to change that.

Trump Admin are made up of corporatists, conservatives(religious and non religious), White nationalists and oligarchs. I don't for second think these folks came out of nowhere. They have existed in US politics forever but they found a vessel to achieve their goals with Trump. Their goals or agenda will continue.
 

VGThuy

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29,762
A part of me thinks we sort of lost the option of being able to choose someone more progressive and lefty because thanks to Trump's election, we've undid a lot of progress happening under Obama (even if you consider him Republican-lite like many of my friends) after 8 years of Bush and we're still reeling from the effects of the way Reagan shifted everything to the right so right is now considered "moderate". Trump is now normalizing some really far right things that we again have to shift back.

However, another part of me thinks Trump means we have to go hard left and not compromise and that passion will carry the next election. The pro-Biden polls tell one story but polls aren't everything, and the campaign hasn't really started yet.
 

ballettmaus

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11,981
^I'm okay with a more moderate Democrat in general. I'm not okay with anyone who is moderate on climate change and thinks it is an issue we can compromise on.
 

skatesindreams

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29,098
Personally, I'm much more liberal/left than some of my posts suggest.

My main priority is to support the Democratic candidate who is able to gain the confidence of the electorate; and defeat Trump.
Most of the people who have presented themselves thus far, do not seem to have a realistic chance to do so.

Even the appearance of a "fractured" party, doesn't "inspire"
I hope that they are able to unite behind a few strong candidates, eventually.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C
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47,325
Personally, I'm much more liberal/left than some of my posts suggest.

My main priority is to support the Democratic candidate who is able to gain the confidence of the electorate; and defeat Trump.
Most of the people who have presented themselves thus far, do not seem to have a realistic chance to do so.

Even the appearance of a "fractured" party, doesn't "inspire"
I hope that they are able to unite behind a few strong candidates, eventually.
Eventually they will.
 

Sparks

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9,442
Would you vote for Trump in 2020? (via new Quinnipiac poll)
31% definitely Trump
12% consider Trump
54% definitely not Trump
 

VGThuy

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29,762
It's the same thing they got Clinton for as well. I think Sanders got away with it despite voting for it because he was more convincingly able to frame his reasons for voting for it as a compromise and he has speeches from that period and after that pretty much showed he hated "tough-on-crime" bills and saw them for what they were whereas Clinton seemed more much gung-ho about being "tough-on-crime". Plus, Sanders supporters know he's much more about economic reform and his whole thing has always centered on economic policies so they see him as someone who is willing to change his position from what he had in the early 90s. If Biden should learn anything from the 2016 Presidential race, is that he needs to find away to frame his vote and rhetoric from the early 90s to the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party whose rhetoric on this has gained traction in the 20+ years since the 1994 Crime Bill.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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11,542
Clinton was not able to vote on the crime bill in 1994. It was early in Bill's first term. She was first lady, and not in Congress. Sanders voted for it and got a pass.

She also got blamed for Bill's affairs.
 

VGThuy

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29,762
Clinton was not able to vote on the crime bill in 1994. It was early in Bill's first term. She was first lady, and not in Congress. Sanders voted for it and got a pass.

She also got blamed for Bill's affairs.
Right, but a lot of her rhetoric and speeches at the time made it seem like had she been a member of Congress she would have voted for it and afterwards.
 

topaz

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14,341
And..........this is how the Biden campaign handled today’s criticism over the 1994 Crime Bill.

:watch:

We’re a little over a month away from the first primary debate. I’m calling it right now: They are going to go after Biden over this. He better knock discussing this out of the park.
As they should. He's has never apologized for it only expressed "regret". His reasons for the crime bill are shady too. It's about appeasing the other side, that was his compromise as he states. So exerbarating the US prison system of mass incarceration, this is his contribution.

I'm just hoping Warren, Sanders and Harris bring up Anita Hill.

Clinton was not able to vote on the crime bill in 1994. It was early in Bill's first term. She was first lady, and not in Congress. Sanders voted for it and got a pass.

She also got blamed for Bill's affairs.
She was the first lady who promoted and supported the bill. The infamous statement of "super predators" is what she has to atone for. Her part in promoting the bill was the issue. It didn't help much when she dismissed the young woman who confronted her about the remark in the primary in 2015. I can tell for young African Americans this was a huge issue and it will for Joe Biden too.

Also, Bernie did not get free pass for his. Many young people of color had a major issue with it.
 

topaz

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14,341
Wonder what Biden supporters will say about this 2006 speech at a Rotary Club where Biden came out in support of a wall? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15djRzWG3_0

They'll say he's evolved as a candidate and keep repeating that he's the most electable candidate.

They'll note that a self described democratic socialist(Sanders) will never be electable to the US public(aka older Americans who freak out at any word that contains socialism because in their eyes socialism=communism). Or they'll say a center left candidate like Elizabeth Warren is not electable because the US is not ready for a candidate like her. Also, they'll state a US senator who is a military vet who is against US foreign policy of regime changes because she's seen first hand what that regime change looks like is a traitor.

My comments are satire folks.
 
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caseyedwards

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12,535
Wonder what Biden supporters will say about this 2006 speech at a Rotary Club where Biden came out in support of a wall? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15djRzWG3_0
They have their talking points!! Technology has advanced! There are drones, WiFi, HD cameras, all the way back in 2006 those were in their early years and walls made more sense. Bet you Biden didn’t even know what WiFi was until 2013 or 2014.

The real issue is that NYT just had the article that reflected asylum laws have become the main immigration method of all people who want to be in America.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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7,003
A discussion about the potential for high turnout by millennials in 2020.

*** Why Millennials’ Political Awakening Could Bury Trump in 2020 :
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/pew-research-gen-z-millennials-turnout-2018-2020-boomers.html
It is now clear that Donald Trump’s election spurred just such “an unusual lurch.” On Wednesday, Pew Research released a report on voter turnout in the 2018 elections, and its analysis of Census Bureau data shows that millennial turnout surged to 42 percent, a full 20 percentage points higher than the cohort’s rate in 2014.

And yet, that might not actually be the report’s most ominous finding for the GOP. The first time any Gen-Xers were eligible to vote in a midterm election, 23 percent of them showed up at the polls. The oldest millennials posted that same rate in 2006. But in 2018, voting-age Gen-Zers — who, by all appearances, are every bit as left wing as millennials are — put up 30 percent. And since voting is habit, that strong initial showing puts Gen Z on track to punch above its (age-adjusted) weight for elections to come.

Collectively, in 2018, millennial, Gen-Z, and Gen-X voters cast more ballots than boomers or “silent types” for the first time ever in a midterm election. Exit polls suggest that Democratic candidates won 58 percent of voters between 30 and 44 last year, and 67 percent of voters under 30, even as they essentially tied Republicans among voters 45 and up. Which suggests that an ostensibly Trump-inspired acceleration in the political maturation of millennials and Gen-Zers played a major role in painting the House map blue last year.
 

topaz

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14,341
Joe Biden's comments that he wants to work with republicans is being obliterated in the progressive media.

It really shows how out of touch he is with the current electorate. He believes the republicans in the House and Senate are going to put "country first" when he's in office. Because they have shown to put country first over the last 20 years . . Whatever Joe Biden.

He called Mike Pence a "decent man"even though Pence wants all in the LGBTQ to have no rights at all. Pence has advocated to impose on his religious doctrine on the LGBTQ community.

Yet, Joe thinks he can compromise with folks like Pence. Good luck with that.

Joe thinks he can compromise with republicans who want to enforce pregnancy on women without access to birth control. Joe thinks, myself and other women should overlook the policies of those who want to do us harm and take away our human rights.

I saw this quote on Washington Post website(its one of their better written articles, even though it is still a opinion piece.)
In case you - or dimwit Joe Biden - have forgotten, on the very night Obama and Biden were elected in 2008, a group of Republican Congresspersons met at a DC Restaurant and decided to oppose EVERY SINGLE THING Obama might try to get done, even if the idea was one the Republicans had previously been in favor of!
Nope
Nothing short of the complete obliteration of the Republican Party will save American Democracy. The Republicans want total domination, permanently. Reasonable Americans can't let that happen.
The democrats need to really understand that if they nominate a moderate/centrist status quo presidential candidate, the fallout is not going to be pretty.
 
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