The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

Vash01

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clairecloutier

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In regard to O'Rourke's wife, there's also this, as well as the campaign documentary that came out about him last week, in which his wife apparently talked about how hard the campaign was on their kids and how she cried when he first decided to run for office. Yet here he is, running again just months later. Which, I'm not saying he shouldn't run. Bill Clinton ran when Chelsea was young; Obama ran when Malia and Sasha were young; so did Kennedy. It's just, in this specific case, I see a man who's okay with what his own family has said is significant disruption and sadness to them, if it serves his ambitions. Maybe they're just being more honest about it all than other political families, but it's still information to notice.

Candidates don't exist in a vacuum. Their families absolutely influence my picture of who they are. Do I care that Karen Pence works at a school that specifically bars gay staff members? Yes, I care. And do I think this says something about who the Pences are as people? Yes, I believe it is not immaterial information.
 

Ania

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This Vanity Fair profile on O'Rourke painted an unpleasant picture. Nothing is scarier than Trump being re-elected, but the more I learn about O'Rourke the less I like the idea of him for president. He was a fantastic person to run against Ted Cruz, but he is no longer competing against Cruz...
 

nylynnr

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This Vanity Fair profile on O'Rourke painted an unpleasant picture. Nothing is scarier than Trump being re-elected, but the more I learn about O'Rourke the less I like the idea of him for president. He was a fantastic person to run against Ted Cruz, but he is no longer competing against Cruz...
I agree. A Vanity Fair cover is a terrible way to launch a campaign that is supposed to be grass roots, progressive and fresh. Fair or not, it associates O'Rourke with Hollywood, big-money Democratic contributors, the "Old Guard" who spend half their time attending benefits and chatting with talk show hosts.
 

Ania

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I agree. A Vanity Fair cover is a terrible way to launch a campaign that is supposed to be grass roots, progressive and fresh. Fair or not, it associates O'Rourke with Hollywood, big-money Democratic contributors, the "Old Guard" who spend half their time attending benefits and chatting with talk show hosts.
This plus one more impression I got from the profile: he is an unsuccessful rock star who discovered that politics is another way to command attention of adoring crowds. Saying he does not prepare his speeches and is sometimes surprised by what comes out of his mouth, is not necessarily a quality I am looking for in a president ...
 

jeffisjeff

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Saying he does not prepare his speeches and is sometimes surprised by what comes out of his mouth, is not necessarily a quality I am looking for in a president ...
Sounds too much like the president we've already got. :shuffle:

I don't know much about Beto, so I am actually reserving judgement. However, I continue to be impressed with Kamala Harris. She was on NPR again this morning and I like her approach to explaining her policy positions. When answering a question about deporting immigrants, I liked how she started with a story to create an image in the listener's mind and give context for her position. When the interviewer somewhat distorted her position on asylum seekers (implying that she'd let them all in) she firmly corrected him and emphasized that all asylum seekers deserve due process to determine whether they could come to the US. I liked that she was definitive about not allowing federal executions.
 

clairecloutier

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Reading that Vanity Fair article about O'Rourke only reinforced my earlier impression that there is something immature about him. It also confirmed what I already suspected, which is that he spent 6 years in the House and accomplished little aside from voting with Republicans 1/3 of the time the last 2 years.

Pass.

ETA: BTW, here is the less-than-flattering Washington Post piece about Beto that was mentioned in the VF article. It was retweeted this morning by our friend Robert Samuels.

Beto O'Rourke's Immigration Plan: No Wall, Few Specifics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...36fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.a3ec5e727ac9
 

Vash01

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Sounds too much like the president we've already got. :shuffle:

I don't know much about Beto, so I am actually reserving judgement. However, I continue to be impressed with Kamala Harris. She was on NPR again this morning and I like her approach to explaining her policy positions. When answering a question about deporting immigrants, I liked how she started with a story to create an image in the listener's mind and give context for her position. When the interviewer somewhat distorted her position on asylum seekers (implying that she'd let them all in) she firmly corrected him and emphasized that all asylum seekers deserve due process to determine whether they could come to the US. I liked that she was definitive about not allowing federal executions.
I like Kamala too.

Although I find Beto exciting, I am undecided about him. I need more information and so far it has not been very positive.
 

BittyBug

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My alignment based on what is coming out of each person's mouth is as follows:

Buttigieg / Abrams (realize she has not committed to running)
Warren
Harris / Booker
Castro

Not yet plussed by Gillibrand, Inslee, Hickenlooper or anyone else.

I like Bernie but not as a candidate. And I do like Biden but I haven't yet heard him on policy so will reserve judgment.
 

skipaway

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Sexism in Politics



Jack Kerouac-style, he roams around, jobless (does he not need a job?) to find himself and figure out if he wants to lead the free world. This is a luxury no woman or even minority in politics could ever have,” Henderson wrote on Thursday.
“But O’Rourke, tall, handsome, white and male, has this latitude, to be and do anything,” she continued. “His privilege even allows him to turn a loss to the most despised candidate of the cycle into a launching pad for a White House run.”
 
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Living for twenty years in the blue dot in the middle of a red state like Texas, I can tell you that O'Rourke's only three point loss to Cruz was a surprise to me. You can't downplay how hard it is for a Democrat to get elected here--Cruz may not appear to be "popular" but Republicans will vote for him and state-wide, that is a majority of the population.

For me, it's hard to look at his Senate campaign as only a "loss" because it had an important positive impact on Democratic politics in this state. O'Rourke's campaign did a great job despite gerrymandering to get Democrats elected to the US House, judgeships, and the state legislature. The Democrat who will run against Cornyn will need to do that again, because Republicans definitely have noticed what happened and are preparing to get back those voters in 2020, when presumably Trump will head the ticket and motivate many to turn out.

I had hoped that O'Rourke would decide to run for Senate again as I think Cornyn is more vulnerable, but I suspect that Beto thought the possible downside (a second loss in a Senate campaign) would kill hopes for a later run at a higher office. I agree that O'Rourke's accomplishments pale when compared to some of the other Democratic presidential candidates declared (and undeclared like Biden). It makes me laugh, however, when people criticize him for not having a job at the moment, when he's only been out of office for two months. I'd rather that he take time to decide what to do next rather than immediately take a lucrative lobbying job. And his wife does work and much has been made about their family wealth, so it's not like they're struggling to make ends meet.

It's too early for me to decide which Democrat to support, but I'm not ready to rule anyone out either. O'Rourke definitely has some negatives: his hand and arm waving yesterday at the first rally (which I watched in real time) bothered me; his lack of clear positions on some key issues is problematic; and the fact (that he can't change) that he is a white male at a time when we need more diversity at the top of the ticket.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the candidates perform over time in the campaign. Hopefully, one or two will emerge as clearly better and the party will get behind them, directing their negativity towards Trump instead of each other.
 

Jot the Dot Dot

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ballettmaus

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And his wife does work and much has been made about their family wealth, so it's not like they're struggling to make ends meet.
Family wealth aside, shouldn't it be seen as a positive thing that his wife is working and he's staying home, figuring out what to do next and maybe spending time with the kids/doing what the woman would normally do in a relationship?
 

Artistic Skaters

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News reports said Joe Biden met with Stacey Abrams for an interview at his request. No comments about discussion matter. VP talk so he can make a dash out of the starting gate once he announces? Support for a Senate run?
 

Spikefan

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Pete Buttigieg will be in the debates, he reached the 65,000 donors needed. Biden getting Abrams as VP out of the gate would be good for him but not sure if it helps her if he isn’t the nominee. It would be risky for her.
 

Vash01

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Beto has big gestures, which is a good thing. From the short video I could not tell if any if them were just arm waving. I have 17 years experience in public speaking and evaluating speakers. Trump's gestures are The worst. They don't go beyond his trunk. They are close to his body. The horizontal hands in and out are simply horrible. For him to criticize Beto's gestures is laughable. When addressing a large crowd, while standing on a stage big gestures are appropriate. I will need to watch more of Beto's videos to see if he is using them correctly to make a point. In any case they cannot be as bad as Trump's, who gets my 'worst gestures' award.

While speaking on TV the gestures need to be minimal. Exception- Steve Kornacki while explaning maps and votes has big gestures that are suitable to his personality and the topic.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Beto uses "like" too much for me. I doubt it's going to change since like, he seems to like making up his speeches as he goes along. The problem with the hand gestures is they go non-stop and he needs a better pace.
 

clairecloutier

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News reports said Joe Biden met with Stacey Abrams for an interview at his request. No comments about discussion matter. VP talk so he can make a dash out of the starting gate once he announces? Support for a Senate run?
I don't know why Abrams would agree now to be his VP running mate. That would preclude her from either running herself or running for the Georgia Senate seat.
 

Vash01

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Beto uses "like" too much for me. I doubt it's going to change since like, he seems to like making up his speeches as he goes along. The problem with the hand gestures is they go non-stop and he needs a better pace.
'Like' is a crutch word. Other crutches in speaking are - Ah, um, er, You know, etc. i detest crutch words. I have more tolerance for an occasional Ah or an occasional long pause. My most hated crutch is 'You know'. Also AhAhAhAh (how many do they need at a time?)
 
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