The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

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VGThuy

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But haven't people just been dismissing those comments as being from an unimportant wing of the Party and then telling those folks to grow up rather than actually take their comments and concerns seriously?
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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You and I will have to agree to disagree about the "things are forgotten" part of your post. I'm seeing too much past history dug up and publicized to believe that such mining and shaming won't continue to take place.

I think the only way to deal with this is to not participate.

People will disagree as to whether someone has made amends. If one thinks they have, then act accordingly. Hopefully, more people will judge fairly and feel the need to give people second chances.

My sister talks about this a lot. She thinks that when people have done something wrong they should be able to return to society once they have been punished. But when the punishment is not a legal one, its hard to know whether this is happening or not.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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But haven't people just been dismissing those comments as being from an unimportant wing of the Party and then telling those folks to grow up rather than actually take their comments and concerns seriously?

I'm talking about individuals in society, not party factions.

I'm no political wonk, and those who deal in such wonkery are welcome to do that, but I'd sooner have the itch (to quote the 1939 film "The Women") or listen to the Tarascream every day than immerse myself in political factionality.
 

VGThuy

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I think the only way to deal with this is to not participate.

People will disagree as to whether someone has made amends. If one thinks they have, then act accordingly. Hopefully, more people will judge fairly and feel the need to give people second chances.

My sister talks about this a lot. She thinks that when people have done something wrong they should be able to return to society once they have been punished. But when the punishment is not a legal one, its hard to know whether this is happening or not.

I think that's probably the best way to deal with those things. People will disagree on whether someone actually made amends or turned a new leaf. It's even harder when the "punishment" was not a legal one. I also think there are so many little issues contradicting themselves too. I went to a prison abolition virtual panel a few weeks ago and they were talking about how you can't be an abolitionist and yet want George Floyd's murderers to go to prison rather than look into alternative and more rehabilitative approaches. I admired the consistency of the message, but I just imagined how hard those advocates had it when they have to take that position.

I think right now, we live in such a retributive (and unevenly retributive) society that was created on purpose since at least the abolition of slavery. Certain people see and live with the fact that many people get away with things and never having had to pay any sort of debt back while others had to pay more than their "fair share". And that creates an attitude that they need to pay too and not only for that but for being complicit in perpetuating this unfair system. Even those who call for revamping the entire thing fall into this revenge mentality.

I sort of think this whole anger and unwillingness to forgive just stems from serious anger beyond the situation (even the most egregious ones) and thinking it's just part of life where people get away with seriously bad behavior and never had to reflect. So the anger and response probably feels good for people who feel that way, even if it might be too vigilante at times, not proportional at times (I do think that definition differs based on one's life experience as some think the responses I think are ok are too harsh regarding racist incidents which makes me then question if the person who thinks responses are too harsh don't truly understand racism...and I'm sure they think I'm being unfair and irrational). I also think people are simply tired of being in a position to have to "teach" and think people who make mistakes aren't honest when they say they want to learn but then move into sea lioning tactics or feign ignorance.

I think if society shifts a bit more and makes true good faith attempt to correct institutional injustices, and people are taken seriously when they call out behavior, then more forgiving responses to bad behavior can happen. Of course, the first two things happening feel impossible at times.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
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I think the most effective ads for changing people's minds are the simple speaking-to-the-camera-from-home-video ads (can't instantly think of the name of the group that airs them) from people who voted for Trump and are now sorry and explain why. They aren't slick like the MeidasTouch or Lincoln Project ads (which I enjoy very much, but I don't think will change anyone's mind). They are very moving and I feel like they are from the heart. I realize the MeidasTouch and Lincoln Project ads have a completely different purpose, which I understand and agree with, but for reaching those who did vote for Trump and are coming to realize it was a big mistake, these very personal ads let them know they are not alone and may give them the courage to try and right the wrong in November despite the pressure from other Trumper family and friends to hold the line.
 

Cachoo

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I think the most effective ads for changing people's minds are the simple speaking-to-the-camera-from-home-video ads (can't instantly think of the name of the group that airs them) from people who voted for Trump and are now sorry and explain why. They aren't slick like the MeidasTouch or Lincoln Project ads (which I enjoy very much, but I don't think will change anyone's mind). They are very moving and I feel like they are from the heart. I realize the MeidasTouch and Lincoln Project ads have a completely different purpose, which I understand and agree with, but for reaching those who did vote for Trump and are coming to realize it was a big mistake, these very personal ads let them know they are not alone and may give them the courage to try and right the wrong in November despite the pressure from other Trumper family and friends to hold the line.
I think the groups that are doing those ads are "Republican Voters Against Trump" and a lot of the "VoteVet" ads have Republican veterans who detest Trump. And I think there are others.
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
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So we have to wait until next week now to find out who Biden will choose as his running mate?
 

vvh.equ9art

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This strikes me as making a lot more sense than the anti-candidate efforts:

Progressives Are Rallying Behind Karen Bass for VP (The Nation)

Showing that there is enthusiasm for a possible pick is smart.

It seems like Bass was rising until the Cuba stuff was brought up, and that triggered the fear of losing voters in Florida, so showing that their is enthusiasm for her could counter that.
Not just Cuba, but also her enthusiasm for Scientology. The Scientology part was a deal-breaker for me. (Her age was also an issue for me. Not that Bass is ancient, but I was hoping for a younger VP.)
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,212
You're right that her association with Scientology may have been inflated. Makes me less enthusiastic though. I think I'd rather deal with Harris's prosecutorial past and Rice's Benghazi baggage.
Oh, not Benghazi! Benghazi to Trump's base is like red meat to a dog. I would rather any other baggage than that.
 

b-man

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They may not be legitimate refugees, but I doubt that you'd want to trade places with them even for a day.
They pay traffickers or walk thousands of miles with their children on foot and they risk everything coming here. That should give you some idea about how desperate they are.

The other issue is that just because many are not classified as refugees doesn't mean that they shouldn't be.
I'd much rather have the Yazidi's classified as refugees, they have undergone much worse hardships than Hondurans. Their male population was largely murdered, the young women and girls sold repeatedly as sex slaves, their former homes trashed, the population scattered and traumatized. A modern day genocide, there is no genocide in Honduras. Some Yazidi got asylum in Canada, Germany, a few in Australia. Many were denied refugee status due to 1. the persecution was by ISIS and not by the Iraq government, or 2. Isis is defeated and no longer a threat. Few or none were given asylum in the US.

There are poor people the world over. The US is probably in the top 10 in per capita income at $65k, so there are about 180+ countries with 6 billion+ people that are comparatively poor. There are actually many countries in worse condition than Honduras. You cannot solve poverty by inviting every poor person into the US.


I note Honduras has a per capita income of $2500, and Bernies favorite, $11,000. If red Joe and his bud Bernie take power, we can get our income reduced from $65K to $11K and everyone here will be happy.
 

ballettmaus

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Trump got antagonistic in a phone call with a GOP megadonor. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/08/trump-antagonizes-sheldon-adelson-phone-call-392688

The 87-year-old casino mogul had reached out to Trump to talk about the ******** relief bill and the economy. But then Trump brought the conversation around to the campaign and confronted Adelson about why he wasn’t doing more to bolster his reelection, according to three people with direct knowledge of the call. One of the people said it was apparent the president had no idea how much Adelson, who’s donated tens of millions of dollars to pro-Trump efforts over the years, had helped him. Adelson chose not to come back at Trump.

...

Others say big Republican givers are holding back checks because of the potential business fallout of being a major Trump contributor. After word surfaced that fitness company executive Stephen Ross was hosting a Hamptons fundraiser for Trump, patrons at his Equinox and SoulCycle chains staged a boycott.

With Trump trailing badly, some donors are more interested in bankrolling efforts to save the GOP’s Senate majority. Among the contributors who’ve cut checks to the super PAC for Senate Republicans but not Trump’s are hedge fund manager Paul Singer, investor Charles Schwab, and real estate developer Mel Sembler.


It's the little things I take pleasure in nowadays.
 

caseyedwards

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Mostly All republicans are unified for Biden presidency and Republican senate. That’s what they want and are working for .
 

FiveRinger

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It seems there is a plan for that (the sexism and possibly racism that will be leveled at Biden's pick:

I just wish that he would pick someone already. I don’t even care who at this point. All of this drama and posing is just too much. We’re less than 3 months out. I made my choice in the wee hours of November 9, 2016 when I literally cried during CNN’s announcement that Trump had won. I’m sure most of us here had the same epiphany. I wore all black to work that day, for f*ck’s sake....I looked like Johnny Cash’s long lost black cousin, literally and figurately.

As wrong as it is for me to say this, if the election was tomorrow and Kanye was Biden’s running mate, I’d still vote for him. Get on with it, dammit!!!! Quit dragging this out just for the sake of suspense. We’re over it!!!!!!! :angryfire
 

caseyedwards

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Everybody knows what the real plan is. That’s for democrats to attack any criticism of Bidens running mate as racist and sexist! Like any criticism of Obama or his policies was Attacked as racist. That’s why having a black president ultimately didn’t mean anything for race relations. Didn’t matter that Obama won huge enormous landslides twice. Racism was behind all criticism!
 

MsZem

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Also, normally this is announced in the week of the convention, a few days before. So by that criteria, he's not late.
Biden himself was not announced as the 2008 VP candidate until August 22. McCain's choice of Sarah Palin was announced a week later (the RNC was in early September).
 
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