The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

Sparks

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Recently a neighbor and I were talking about VP candidates and she mentioned Michelle Lujan Grisham. Would she be a good candidate? Wiki says she served in the House and previously in state government.
She's now the Governor of NM. I think she's great. She has stated she still wants to be the Governor and will support Biden.
 

rhapsody

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Jesus fcking Christ. I think Joe's team is right on the money in terms of hiding him as much as possible because he does himself no favors when speaking for himself. If the election were tomorrow he would have it in the bag, but it's 6 months away. He better not manage to blow it with this type of crap because he and his team are overconfident about the voter demographics they "expect" to receive.
 
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Sparks

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Thread on Biden's comments to Black business leaders.

 

MacMadame

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Joe has gone off on voters in the recent past.
When?

There is a tape of one incident where he went off on a troll who deliberately provoked him. That is hardly going off on voters. (Not that he should have done it but we're all trying to figure out the best way to deal with trolls these days.)
 

caseyedwards

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When?

There is a tape of one incident where he went off on a troll who deliberately provoked him. That is hardly going off on voters. (Not that he should have done it but we're all trying to figure out the best way to deal with trolls these days.)
Maybe the dog faced pony solider
 

topaz

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Trump Team had this available on their site to purchase this afternoon.

 

olympic

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I'm not worried about Biden and his gaffe. He was tete a tete with a interviewer who makes a living out of being a sh-t stirrer. He said it and then apologized. Quite frankly, it made him look real. John Kerry and HRC would've hamstrung themselves for days explaining it away. Al Gore would've put people to sleep explaining it.

And everything pales in comparison to Trump presiding over 100,000 American deaths right now
 

mrinalini

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New anti-Trump ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqzYpPtsn6g


Also, an editorial from Jennifer Rubin making the case that Warren could be a strong contributor to a Biden Administration in several different roles--it doesn't have to be as VP:

Rubin can eff off as far as I'm concerned. Spent the whole primary bashing Warren and is now is all over her, but only in any other role besides VP because, hey, can't have Warren be a heartbeat away from the presidency, now can we? Transparent twit.

And I still remember Klobuchar almost trembling with rage in one of the debates when Pete kept going after her; she's so temperamentally unfit that it's a joke she's even being considered.

As for Biden, now that he's made another idiotic gaffe, Harris is practically a lock for VP. Ugh!
 

rhapsody

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When?

There is a tape of one incident where he went off on a troll who deliberately provoked him. That is hardly going off on voters. (Not that he should have done it but we're all trying to figure out the best way to deal with trolls these days.)






This one is a reporter but guess what, reporters vote too.

 
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Reuven

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When?

There is a tape of one incident where he went off on a troll who deliberately provoked him. That is hardly going off on voters. (Not that he should have done it but we're all trying to figure out the best way to deal with trolls these days.)
Yep. And if it had been Trump, the reaction would have been, “Yeah! You tell him!”
 

olympic

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This one is a reporter but guess what, reporters vote too.

Frankly, I think this is great. He says what is on his mind. And I agree - 'Here I am and this is my record. Don't vote for me if you don't like me'. It is refreshing to see someone take a step back from pandering. I think Biden is his own type of politician: He is inartful, abrupt, but is more direct and honest, and he apologizes when he thinks it's necessary. But WJC and BHO were more artful which helped them overcome their verbal miscues (and they had their own). AG, JK, and HRC had plenty of miscues and unlike Biden, were indirect and stumbled over themselves to retract or clarify. That took days to rectify during their campaigns and the damage was greater.

I think Biden's behavior would've been a loser (and was) in any election pre-Trump. Times have changed, though
 

rhapsody

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Frankly, I think this is great. He says what is on his mind. And I agree - 'Here I am and this is my record. Don't vote for me if you don't like me'. It is refreshing to see someone take a step back from pandering. I think Biden is his own type of politician: He is inartful, abrupt, but is more direct and honest, and he apologizes when he thinks it's necessary. But WJC and BHO were more artful which helped them overcome their verbal miscues (and they had their own). AG, JK, and HRC had plenty of miscues and unlike Biden, were indirect and stumbled over themselves to retract or clarify. That took days to rectify during their campaigns and the damage was greater.

I think Biden's behavior would've been a loser (and was) in any election pre-Trump. Times have changed, though
This is the same crap that MAGAts claim that they love about Trump.
 

MacMadame

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whole post
I stopped watching after a while but the ones I did watch were NOT Biden "going off" on voters. He wasn't going off at all. He wasn't even "agitated" in the one that was described that way, but just firm that if someone isn't going to vote for him, he's not going to get into a really long discussion of campaign issues at what is essentially a meet and greet.

These activists are coming to these events with the sole intention of provoking the candidate. They are trying to get their agenda out to a wide audience and they think forcing confrontations so they get on the news is the way to go. I do not. I think it's taking online trolling into the real world and I think it needs to be dialed way back.
 

olympic

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This is the same crap that MAGAts claim that they love about Trump.
Nope. Wrong. MAGAs get excited when Trump attacks ‘them’. The other. That is not what Biden is doing. He is not wholesale attacking groups of people. He just spits out what is on his mind. Granted it can be verbal diarrhea sometimes. My post was trying to point out that it may not be the liability that people might think
 

rhapsody

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I stopped watching after a while but the ones I did watch were NOT Biden "going off" on voters. He wasn't going off at all. He wasn't even "agitated" in the one that was described that way, but just firm that if someone isn't going to vote for him, he's not going to get into a really long discussion of campaign issues at what is essentially a meet and greet.

These activists are coming to these events with the sole intention of provoking the candidate. They are trying to get their agenda out to a wide audience and they think forcing confrontations so they get on the news is the way to go. I do not. I think it's taking online trolling into the real world and I think it needs to be dialed way back.
Why do you think Biden has been pivoting on issues that he's held for decades? Flipping on the Hyde Amendment which he liked until literally last year, trying to adopt a universal healthcare option, pushing forward environmentally friendly policies, or backtracking on his disgusting bankruptcy bill that inspired Warren to run for congress? It certainly wasn't out of the kindness of his own heart. It was pressure that was placed on him by voters and his own party.

Mind you these examples are from the early primary when other candidates were in the running. He better be prepared to answer these types of questions and encounters as the presumptive nominee from people who are not just going to vote for him because he isn't Trump. It doesn't instill confidence in the Latino demographic if Biden promises to go back to the glory days of Obama who deported more immigrants than any previous administration. Confronting him about that fact and what he would do to fix it is not "trolling"; it's called pressuring him to do the right thing. Trump is undoubtedly worse, but Joe is going to have to pivot on his policies if he wants to win.

I personally think it's great that Joe sends out the vibe that he is at least willing to think about changing his views. And I think it's wonderful that people feel empowered to ask him tough questions about his mistakes. If he gets defensive about it though it doesn't make me confident about his ability to really pivot or learn.

Speaking of being artful, you ended your highlighting before you got to the part about how Biden apologizes when he thinks it's necessary. This is not what Trump's supporters say about him.
Um, exactly? Which is why I didn't highlight that. If you need me to break it down, saying they both have certain things in common doesn't mean they have everything in common. One is bad and the other is the worst we've ever had.

Nope. Wrong. MAGAs get excited when Trump attacks ‘them’. The other. That is not what Biden is doing. He is not wholesale attacking groups of people. He just spits out what is on his mind. Granted it can be verbal diarrhea sometimes. My post was trying to point out that it may not be the liability that people might think
I totally agree with this except the highlighted part. It's getting eerily similar to 2016 when Hilary would get crucified for misstating something while Trump got a pass for all the horrible crap he's said during the campaign. And the moronic right will (and have) weaponized his "gaffes" against him. He needs to stop giving the opposition ammunition.
 
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Vagabond

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Why do you think Biden has been pivoting on issues that he's held for decades?
The entire Democratic Party has moved to the left over the past three-and-a-half years, even the past three-and-a-half months, and Biden is a Democrat. Also, what held true in, say, 1973, when Biden was a young Senator, does not necessarily hold true now.

But if you would rather have Trump than Biden as President, go ahead and vote for Trump. That is your prerogative.
 

rhapsody

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The entire Democratic Party has moved to the left over the past three-and-a-half years, even the past three-and-a-half months, and Biden is a Democrat. Also, what held true in, say, 1973, when Biden was a young Senator, does not necessarily hold true now.

But if you would rather have Trump than Biden as President, go ahead and vote for Trump. That is your prerogative.
I have high expectations for Biden and none for Trump. Excuse me for opining on how I believe Biden can be even more of a force by suggesting controversial things like not telling voters off to the opposition or taking the pleas of POC seriously.

We are in the middle of a pndemic in which at this very moment Trump is playing golf as the US nears 100K in deaths for something that could've been entirely preventable. Horrific. And yet, polls have Biden barely leading Trump nationally with numbers that fall within the margin of error. That should be embarrassing.

There is a certain demographic that have their heads up Trump's ass so they're a lost cause, but there should still be no reason why Biden isn't absolutely crushing him. Maybe he should reflect on all those "trolls" that are literally telling him about things they take issue to his face and realize that simply "not being Trump" isn't good enough. I would like to say that it is good enough for me to vote for Joe, so please take a seat. That doesn't mean I will not criticize him for things he deserves to be criticized for.

It's hilarious that your last point is literally the issue I originally brought up with Joe. "Sit down, shut up, and vote for Joe". Not worth having an argument if all you'll do is parrot his talking points.
 
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MacMadame

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Why do you think Biden has been pivoting on issues that he's held for decades?
Because he changed his mind?

Confronting him about that fact and what he would do to fix it is not "trolling"; it's called pressuring him to do the right thing.
It is if the setting isn't appropriate for the "discussion" that the person is trying to have.

If he gets defensive about it though it doesn't make me confident about his ability to really pivot or learn.
I didn't see him being particularly defensive but more "okay, this person is trying to make a point, not have an honest discussion and I am going to shut it down and move onto the next person"

There are tons of ways to engage with a candidate to both get your views across and even to get him to change his POV. But most of these situations are not them.

Reporters, in particular, should be asking honest, neutral questions and not trying to score points or get a candidate to trip up. I especially hate it when reporters yell out a series of questions as the target leaves (especially if they are leaving a news briefing where the questions with nuances can be asked) and I thought Biden actually handled that one well.
 

rhapsody

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Because he changed his mind?
That's cute.

It is if the setting isn't appropriate for the "discussion" that the person is trying to have.

I didn't see him being particularly defensive but more "okay, this person is trying to make a point, not have an honest discussion and I am going to shut it down and move onto the next person"

There are tons of ways to engage with a candidate to both get your views across and even to get him to change his POV. But most of these situations are not them.

Reporters, in particular, should be asking honest, neutral questions and not trying to score points or get a candidate to trip up. I especially hate it when reporters yell out a series of questions as the target leaves (especially if they are leaving a news briefing where the questions with nuances can be asked) and I thought Biden actually handled that one well.
You speak as if he's the only one who's ever been confronted by these people. Joe should take several pointers from his previous boss on how to handle them. There's a reason why he was getting press for these types of interactions earlier this cycle and not other candidates. Point blank, he's terrible at it. All the coverage he's been getting has me thinking you and others here are in the minority in terms how it's viewed.
 

MacMadame

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That's cute.
So you are saying he's lying when he says he holds these positions?

All the coverage he's been getting has me thinking you and others here are in the minority in terms how it's viewed.
Coverage is about clicks. If negative coverage and being hyper-focused on a candidate's gaffes translated into that candidate losing votes, Trump wouldn't be President.
 

rhapsody

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So you are saying he's lying when he says he holds these positions?
That's not where I was getting at, but now that you mention it, yes. I think he's pandering for votes when he talks about things like expanding healthcare without any real intention of doing so. It's not like lying is new to him.

I was getting at I think it's cute you think he just one day decided to denounce the Hyde Amendment out of the goodness of his heart and that it wasn't pressure from colleagues, his party, and potential voters.

Coverage is about clicks. If negative coverage and being hyper-focused on a candidate's gaffes translated into that candidate losing votes, Trump wouldn't be President.
Good point. But that doesn't exactly bode well for Biden considering the amount of coverage Trump is getting.
 

MacMadame

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I was getting at I think it's cute you think he just one day decided to denounce the Hyde Amendment out of the goodness of his heart and that it wasn't pressure from colleagues, his party, and potential voters.
I think it's not cute that you make up what people think and then make fun of them for it.

There is nowhere in my post that I said HOW he changed his mind. Just that he did.
 

Sparks

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I was getting at I think it's cute you think he just one day decided to denounce the Hyde Amendment out of the goodness of his heart and that it wasn't pressure from colleagues, his party, and potential voters.
If he did decide to change his stance because of pressure, that shows me he is open to listening to more Progressive voices.
 

rhapsody

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How do you know this?
Even if the ACA is brought back, it is expanding healthcare from what we have now.

A man primarily beholden to his donors will do what he can to protect those who got him into power. Many issues he paints as pie in the sky dreams are definitely possible if he were to tax the ultra wealthy. The solution is right there. Will he? Which is the real Joe? The one who says things to the public or the one who says the opposite behind closed doors?

I think it's not cute that you make up what people think and then make fun of them for it.

There is nowhere in my post that I said HOW he changed his mind. Just that he did.
Why would that point be relevant to the question I asked: "Why do you think Biden has been pivoting on issues that he's held for decades?"

Asking "why" indicates that I acknowledge that he did in fact he change his mind. That was never in question so I'm not sure why you felt it was necessary to say that.

If he did decide to change his stance because of pressure, that shows me he is open to listening to more Progressive voices.
That's the point I'm trying to make. How can people expect him to become a more competent and inclusive leader if no one is pressuring him to do so? If he wasn't championing these values before, a 77-year old isn't just randomly going to do the opposite unless some outside forces convince him.

His reaction to those progressive voices are seen above in the post I made which people here are simply calling a form of trolling. Those voices aren't evil or trying to vilify him by criticizing his past actions. They're trying to better him and they're trying to get him to follow through on his promises to the disenfranchised people.
 
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