The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

ballettmaus

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No, we don't want him to run as an independent!
True. He shouldn't run at all. But if he is going to run, he's going to run as a Democrat. And he'll start his campaign only weeks or maybe even days after he gave his own response to the SOTU as an Independent. And then he'll complain again how Democrats aren't supporting him enough and the system is rigged against him.
 

Vash01

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The headline is the equivalent of: "Is he or she 'authentic' enough? " a question that only seems to be asked of women and people of color.
Did anyone ask such questions about Trump before the elections? After the elections it was too late, no matter how many Pinocchios they gave him.
 

ballettmaus

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Warren listed herself as American Indian on a registration card for the State Bar of Texas. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b8fba003e81_story.html?utm_term=.ba505687d281

I'm not sure what to think about it. I've read comments that people should let it go and maybe they should. On the other hand, I think there's a difference between saying you have Native American ancestry and claiming somewhere that your race is Native American because a great-great-great someone was Native American. That, I find disrespectful on some level.

My personal view aside, if she becomes the Democratic nominee, I don't think that Trump will let that go. So, how significant of an issue is it with voters? And has the MSM learned enough from the "but her emails" debacle or would this become the new "but her emails"?
 

BlueRidge

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Given the current political context, she probably cannot run given this despite the fact that she's made it clear for some time that she understands she was wrong to call herself Native American. No one needs to belabor the fact that she was wrong. She's not denying that she's acknowledging it.

But its not about Trump's racist taunting of her. That is about his racism and hostility to Native Americans. He's invoked racist stereotypes and made fun of historical massacres of Native Americans. That can't be set aside because Warren was wrong.

If she's forced out of the Senate it will be a huge victory for the wealthy.
 

BlueRidge

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I don’t see Warren being forced out of the Senate. She was just duly re-elected by a large margin and that was after the DNA test.
that's good.

It doesn't seem like anyone in particular is going after her right now. But we're in an era where apologies for past wrongs are not enough.
 

attyfan

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That she keeps her seat is completely different from her getting the Democratic nomination -- and this will interfere with the second idea.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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I gave Warren a bit of a pass on this because I know some people go by what their families have told them and they take it as gospel without further verification. I also thought she never really used her claim of having Native American ancestry to her advantage nor officially identified herself as anything other than white. I thought in the past she just said she was told her family had some Native American ancestry being from Oklahoma where apparently a lot of people claim their families were intermixed in that way. I thought it was a simple mistake. However, putting it on her registration card for the Texas Bar in 1986 is a step further and sort of goes against what I believed. I think if she truly thought she was Native American, she should really just hold a real conference about it or do an interview saying she really believed her family's oral history as it was passed down to her and she mistakenly felt a sense of pride about it and started adopting that sort of identity, but now that it's more than 30 years later and she's been educated about this issue, she understands how wrong it was for her to simply claim it.

Honestly, this whole discussion of who belongs and who doesn't deserves a much more nuanced conversation than what I wrote above because apparently the the issue of whether people belong to tribes touch upon so many things like actual experience as a Native American, who is an actual member of a tribe, intermixing blood and whether having some percentage is enough (a heated debate), the oppression of Native Americans, privilege, etc. However, a Presidential campaign unfortunately is not the place for such discussion. The Republicans now have a way in to discredit her nationally while ignoring what Trump has been saying about Native American people.
 

BlueRidge

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I think if she truly thought she was Native American, she should really just hold a real conference about it or do an interview saying she really believed her family's oral history as it was passed down to her and she mistakenly felt a sense of pride about it and started adopting that sort of identity, but now that it's more than 30 years later and she's been educated about this issue, she understands how wrong it was for her to simply claim it.
This is exactly what I thought she has done. She has been dealing with this since she ran for Senate, and she explained exactly what you said above. She did claim to be Native American on some documents and she acknowledged that.

She made a really big step backwards I think with the release of the DNA test. It undid some of what she had explained in the past and made it appear that she does claim to be Native American.

She's apologized and explained but the DNA test happened essentially in the present so its a big problem for her.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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This is exactly what I thought she has done. She has been dealing with this since she ran for Senate, and she explained exactly what you said above. She did claim to be Native American on some documents and she acknowledged that.

She made a really big step backwards I think with the release of the DNA test. It undid some of what she had explained in the past and made it appear that she does claim to be Native American.

She's apologized and explained but the DNA test happened essentially in the present so its a big problem for her.
In a Presidential debate, you have to keep repeating it until the race is over or the race is over for you. Keep saying it and as more headlines and blurbs (because that's the only thing people read) repeat it for you it'll reach more people. In this race, she can't assume explaining it 10 times is enough as not everyone is going to hear that. All they hear is that she "pretended" to be Native American for personal gain (which is untrue but that truth doesn't matter). She has to keep in control of the narrative and not let the narrative control her. Unfortunately, it's an issue now and whatever she has said hasn't killed the controversy.
 

BittyBug

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I also thought she never really used her claim of having Native American ancestry to her advantage....
Would identifying herself as Native American on her bar application offer her any advantage?

Also FWIW, I'm pretty sure I read that when she met with representatives of the Native American community to apologize for the DNA test, she also addressed the bar application.
 

BlueRidge

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In a Presidential debate, you have to keep repeating it until the race is over or the race is over for you. Keep saying it and as more headlines and blurbs (because that's the only thing people read) repeat it for you it'll reach more people. In this race, she can't assume explaining it 10 times is enough as not everyone is going to hear that. All they hear is that she "pretended" to be Native American for personal gain (which is untrue but that truth doesn't matter). She has to keep in control of the narrative and not let the narrative control her. Unfortunately, it's an issue now and whatever she has said hasn't killed the controversy.
Oh yeah, I agree with you there. And the DNA thing really was her doing herself in.

She's trying with this apology to put it behind her before her formal announcement rally.

It won't work. It will dog her.

I doubt she'll drop out though. She'll just have to be beaten, which I pretty much expected anyway. I just don't see her even without this being the winner.

I find it wrenching because I think she has really important policy proposals that I don't want to see buried under all this.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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Would identifying herself as Native American on her bar application offer her any advantage?

Also FWIW, I'm pretty sure I read that when she met with representatives of the Native American community to apologize for the DNA test, she also addressed the bar application.
Probably not, but maybe.
 

BlueRidge

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Interesting and unsurprising poll results on one of the Dems core issues:

A new poll from CNN shows that only 22% of Americans support replacing all private health insurance with government health insurance, a stance controversially endorsed by Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris in Iowa last week.
(from The Guardian)

I really felt like Harris boxed herself in when she made that statement about ending all private insurance. I think it may haunt her because its going to be a tough issue.

The advocates of Medicare for All have been playing fast and loose with the truth by calling it that. Single Payer National Health Insurance (SSNHI) is significantly different from Medicare. Medicare has co-pays and premiums, and the Medicare market has supplemental private insurance as well as the private Medicare Advantage plans. When SSNHI advocates called their plan Medicare and then pointed to surveys showing a majority supports Medicare for All it was a slight of hand. Survey respondents didn't have a reason to think they were expressing support for 100% nationalization of the health insurance industry. But the SSNHI advocates have been forcefully telling Dems that the surveys show that. They don't.
 

MacMadame

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The time when Warren was listing herself as Native American was a time in our history when people were making an effort to be diverse and asking about race was just becoming the norm. Universities were under pressure to show they were doing minority hiring and so were other entities were too.

I can see why Warren, who had grown up with stories of Native American ancestry, would want to put that down on one of these surveys think it would help her university and not think anything of it.
 

Peaches LaTour

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Yes, loved the potty-training story, too. :)

Apparently her catchword will be, "Persist". Now I have to find some jewelry with that catchword on it.

I already have "Resist" jewelry.
 

Simone411

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To tell the truth about it, I'm not surprised or shocked at Trump's reaction regarding Warren's campaign announcement. Even before Trump became President, he always name-called whenever he disliked the actions of a person or if something didn't occur the way he wanted it to.

That even goes back before his luxury hotel golf resort in Scotland. Saying that the man lived in a pig-like atmosphere was his way of dealing with something he could not control. He also claimed that the man's mother said she thought he was a clown.

Meet the Defiant Scottish Farmer Who's Been Feuding With Trump for a Decade

He's name-called throughout the years, and now it's happened again with his tweet in response to Warren's campaign announcement. I truly believe he would have a heart attack or stroke if he couldn't tweet with his name-calling and temper tantrums. He's not liking it, and it's more than likely because he feels she may just have a chance.

Trump Appears To Mock Trail Of Tears Tweet In Response to Warren's Campaign Announcement

“Today Elizabeth Warren, sometimes referred to by me as Pocahontas, joined the race for President,” he wrote on Twitter. “Will she run as our first Native American presidential candidate, or has she decided that after 32 years, this is not playing so well anymore? See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!”
I'm thinking here about Trump's grandfather that's an immigrant from Germany. He has no room to talk when it comes to family immigration. And Warren being part Native American intimidates him thus causing him to spout out more name-calling in his childish defense.

As I see it, Trump would more than likely call me a crippled camel jockey half-breed since I am part Syrian and part Cherokee (Native American). I also have English, French, Irish, Scottish and Welsh as part of my ancestry.

The way I see it, I believe Warren does intimidate him enough to the point where he's very concerned about the possibility she might just win the campaign.
 

ballettmaus

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Now Senator Cory Booker says he supports AOC's "Green New Deal". If whoever wins the Democratic nomination also supports it, that'll guarantee Trump's re-election.
I'm not so sure about that. I think it was Senator Whitehouse who recently posted poll numbers that show that more people are concerned about the environment/climate than they were under Obama. (I'm assuming because people didn't feel like they had to be concerned so much under Obama because Obama was concerned about it).

But the Green New Deal is an ideology, it's a goal. It's one that I share (generally, at least) but that I also know cannot be achieved within ten years. And I prefer a politician who is realistic about it, who has the end goal and bigger picture in mind but tells me what the situation is like right now and what steps can be taken right now. Everything else is useless.

So, if Booker supports the deal and has a plan as to what he can do to get there while in office, great. If he just supports the deal but doesn't acknowledge that there are going to be a lot of smaller steps in between (and that some things are not feasable) then that won't earn him points with me.
 
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BlueRidge

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Don't worry, not a single presidential candidate is actually for the Green New Deal other than as a rhetorical statement to appeal to voters. They are all realistic that we can continue on the road were on, do a few little things here and there, and not rock the boat with the impossible.

Ten years from now people will wonder how it could be that all our leaders could be so complacent and how so many commentators could puff out their chests showing how realistic they are by making the necessary statement that "we just can't do that."

In any case, I have to complain about something the media keeps repeating "With most of the top-tier candidates hailing from coastal states." Did anyone watch Elizabeth Warren yesterday? That person is no New Englander and no East Coaster. She is Oklahoma through and through. The people who write and talk on the mass media seem to be completely lacking in any ability to do anything but repeat things like they were some computerized automata.
 

BittyBug

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Don't worry, not a single presidential candidate is actually for the Green New Deal other than as a rhetorical statement to appeal to voters. They are all realistic that we can continue on the road were on, do a few little things here and there, and not rock the boat with the impossible.

Ten years from now people will wonder how it could be that all our leaders could be so complacent and how so many commentators could puff out their chests showing how realistic they are by making the necessary statement that "we just can't do that."
Why are you so cynical about the GND?
 

BlueRidge

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Why are you so cynical about the GND?
I'm not. I think that the Green New Deal will happen as long as we elect a Democrat as president. The push for it is going to come from below.

I'm disappointed that as of now the candidates really aren't centering climate change in their campaigns but I think if a Democrat is elected they will quickly be pushed toward a much more aggressive agenda.

We don't have a choice on this. And there are no slow, "reasonable" steps. But nothing can be done until a Democrat is elected (not nothing; the ground work will be laid).

I hope that after a nominee is selected the GND will become central to the party's platform. But its all going to come from pressure from movements.

The Sunrise Movement is right now organizing visits to Congressional representatives to pressure them to endorse the AOC Markey legislation. Actions like this will snowball.

I am cynical about mass media commentators and the people who hang on their every word. That was kind of what I was reacting to. Its really Republicans who are saying the GND is not possible, but smart people who don't want to look like extremists are running to not be tagged with that label by being "realistic" about what we can do.

Its not realistic at all to say we can't do this. The only realistic thing is to have a civilization-wide mobilization to address climate change now.
 
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