The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

BlueRidge

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I agree. At the same time, I don't think that you need to attack someone to point out what you're doing or what you're doing differently or how you set yourself apart from someone else.
Also, I think there's a difference between critique and attack and an idea/vision and a record of past actions. Buttigieg may not like Warren's and/or Sanders' ideas and vision and he may envision something else. But I'd rather he just tell me what he envisions than attacking someone else for what they envision. It seems unnecessarily negative.
In this case, I think this is generating some needed debate, since thankfully AOC and others have spoken up. I wish that Warren herself would more forcefully take on this one because it is at the crux of what the difference is between progressives and centrists.

The centrist Washington Post editorialists have been plying this ground for a number of months with criticisms of the proposals of Warren and Sanders. The idea is that if a program is not means-tested it is subsidizing the rich; social programs should be more modeled on charity of giving to those in need.

AOC's response is that only universal programs have the support of everyone necessary for them to be robust. This was the New Deal Democrats argument as to why we should have social security that covers everyone and later the same for Medicare. As AOC argues we don't exclude the well off from public schools, parks and libraries because they have the resources to provide their own.

Bernie makes these arguments in his campaign speeches but he doesn't get a lot of coverage for it. We need more discussion like this so that voters can hear the progressive argument rather than just the centrist argument that "we can't afford" to provide programs for all, we can only allow for charity-like and trickle-down policies which maintain the power of the wealthy economic elite.
 

Peaches LaTour

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1,993
It goes without saying, but I'll be supporting whoever the Democratic nominee is because anybody, ANYTHING, is better than that turd in the WH. I also realize that I've been relentlessly negative about Joe Biden, so I'll do my best to keep my trap shut in regards to him from now on because he IS a good man; I just don't think he should be President.

Meanwhile, Buttigieg continues to disappoint me by releasing a new ad in Iowa which attacks Warren and Sanders' progressive policies; AOC and Ilhan Omar have already slammed him on Twitter for resorting to Republican talking points:


And for those who support Senator Warren, don't lose heart and continue fighting for her: even though the latest polling news is dispiriting, bear in mind that she has spent just a sliver of her funds on advertising and she has at least 7 million dollars' worth in ads in the early states ready to go at a later date. Meanwhile, Buttigieg is throwing a lot of what he's got into advertising in the early states and even then he isn't doing THAT much better than Warren there; heck, even Tulsi Gabbard has outspent Warren in ads thus far! Let's hope that Warren and her team are strategic and will know how to go all out in the final stretch heading towards Iowa.

Lastly, even though Biden leads nationally, there are indications that Warren has overtaken him in the key Rust Belt states:

I am completely opposed to Medicare for all (Warren/Sanders) & several other of their ideas but I agree that candidates need to be careful when criticizing each other.

As for AOC, she sees only Sanders. 😐 so of course she will leap to his defence
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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1,180
And now for some, err, skating....


Brian Boitano shows off his newest move, the Boot Edge Edge, at the opening of an outdoor rink in South Bend


:D
 

olympic

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9,261
AOC does a great job of questioning in the House. I watched her taking big corporations to task in plain language which really reverberates in a way that I haven't seen from other House Reps.

But, she seems to be all or nothing in her support of Sanders, fitting right in to the stereotype of Bernie Bros. I don't necessarily want her to be compromising and reach out to Republicans, but she needs to not dismiss moderate Democrats, or assume she knows the answers to what they need in their daily lives. That is the impression I get reading her tweets in which she notes policy issues and nationalizes issues affecting us.

Her tweets on foreign policy in Latin America (I saw a recent one on Evo Morales) will NOT win over Latinos in Florida, many of whom fled corrupt or dictatorial leftist regimes in the region. I see Latino moderate voters down here who pulled the lever for HRC recoil at the thought of AOC having influence over Democratic policies
 
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BlueRidge

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AOC is not running for president so I don't think she has to take the same things into account as a presidential candidate. Therefore she doesn't have to give up the notion that everyone deserves a decent life. Which few people articulate with the moral clarity she does. I for one don't care if she's not perfect, especially since everyone who criticizes her for being imperfect supports many political voices who are imperfect.

Its a damn good thing the Democratic Party has her voice because too often political calculations from "good" people are all about turning one's head away from the consequences of policies that cause suffering to others.
 

canbelto

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AOC got her start working on the Bernie campaign. She owes a lot to him politically. Her endorsement is not a surprise and a non-endorsement would be seen as a big betrayal.
 

ballettmaus

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AOC got her start working on the Bernie campaign. She owes a lot to him politically. Her endorsement is not a surprise and a non-endorsement would be seen as a big betrayal.
If I were Sanders, I wouldn't want anyone's endorsement because they feel they owe me. I'd want one that's genuine and because of what I stand for.
 

topaz

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I am completely opposed to Medicare for all (Warren/Sanders) & several other of their ideas but I agree that candidates need to be careful when criticizing each other.

As for AOC, she sees only Sanders. 😐 so, of course, she will leap to his defence

In regards to Medicare for All, a recent article in Politico appears to be very honest, open with the resistance against a single-payer healthcare system.

An Army Built to Fight Medicare For All.

The top health industry lobbies have joined forces to take down socialized medicine — or anything that looks like it. Will they succeed? Out of their pact grew an influence operation known today as the Partnership for America's Health Care Future, a multimillion-dollar cooperative designed to overwhelm not just the swelling Medicare for All movement, but every single Democratic proposal that would significantly expand the government's role in health care.

Even in a town with more than 20 lobbyists for every member of Congress, the corporate health care army is outsized; health care companies spent nearly $568 million on lobbying in 2018 alone, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, more than any other industry. For the past four years, its spending has topped a half-billion dollars.
Stopping a single-payer system will cost the for the profit-healthcare industry to lose trillions of dollars. It's not about the health or well-being of American citizens.
 

olympic

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AOC is not running for president so I don't think she has to take the same things into account as a presidential candidate. Therefore she doesn't have to give up the notion that everyone deserves a decent life. Which few people articulate with the moral clarity she does. I for one don't care if she's not perfect, especially since everyone who criticizes her for being imperfect supports many political voices who are imperfect.

Its a damn good thing the Democratic Party has her voice because too often political calculations from "good" people are all about turning one's head away from the consequences of policies that cause suffering to others.
I agree that she speaks with clarity but she gets a lot of press and that will give her some national presence. That was my opening sentence in my initial post. I also realize that neither she nor my preferred candidates are perfect. But, when I listen to people like AOC, Sanders and maybe Warren, I am not confident in their understanding of foreign policy. I remember when I read Pres. Clinton's book released last decade, one thing he wrote that will stay with me was that foreign policy took up a lot more of his time than he calculated it would. So, our next leader I believe will have to be well-versed in understanding of foreign affairs
 

BlueRidge

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I agree that she speaks with clarity but she gets a lot of press and that will give her some national presence. That was my opening sentence in my initial post. I also realize that neither she nor my preferred candidates are perfect. But, when I listen to people like AOC, Sanders and maybe Warren, I am not confident in their understanding of foreign policy. I remember when I read Pres. Clinton's book released last decade, one thing he wrote that will stay with me was that foreign policy took up a lot more of his time than he calculated it would. So, our next leader I believe will have to be well-versed in understanding of foreign affairs
I agree that AOC doesn't have a lot of experience on foreign policy but she's a first term congresswoman. I have a lot more concern about Warren's foreign policy because I don't feel it is something she has applied herself to and she seems to lean to a sort of economic nationalism.

Sanders has a left wing foreign policy. I think it has to be argued on the merits not whether some constituencies don't agree with it. He seems to me to have moved from a more economic nationalist view in 2016 to a more internationalist one which I find very promising.

Sanders is well-versed in foreign affairs so it isn't just that. Clearly Biden is very well-versed in foreign policy and I think this is his strongest point as I posted earlier.

OTOH, Buttigieg clearly has little actual experience and so yes that's negative but I wouldn't rule him out on that because he is smart and knows how to listen to others. The Democrats have a lot of strong foreign policy figures like Susan Rice and others who served in the Obama administration so for an establishment candidate who is able to take advice, I'm not too concerned.
 

allezfred

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When it comes to foreign policy any of the candidates would be better that the current gobshite in the White House.
 

BlueRidge

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Anyone else seeing the reports that Bloomberg News is saying it will not investigate Michael Bloomberg and because they are his rivals they will also not investigate other Democrats running for president? I'm only seeing it at the Guardian. The Trump campaign says this would be biased against Trump because Bloomberg News will keep investigating him.

I think that Michael Bloomberg owning a major news organization and running for president is pretty untenable for that news organization.
 

Sparks

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Here is more
 

caseyedwards

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I'm not sure that's true of Tulsi Gabbard. :shuffle:
She’s obviously the best. All the others have boxed themselves into doing regime change in Russia and that could mean nuclear war. It all depends on what kind of regime change plans the other democrats implement. There is iraq style regime change, syria type regime change. Yugoslavia style regime change. But any one of them could be deadly for Americans. Gabbard is the only one who doesn’t plan regime change in Russia
 

topaz

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AOC got her start working on the Bernie campaign. She owes a lot to him politically. Her endorsement is not a surprise and a non-endorsement would be seen as a big betrayal.
AOC tells the story of being knee-deep in-debt without any healthcare and learning about democratic socialism. Bernie is someone she admires, but AOC is a free thinker. She's a democratic socialist because of her view/ideals. Bernie just happens to share those same ideas.
 

VGThuy

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Yeah, it's not hard to see why AOC, who admired and volunteered for Bernie's campaign in 2016, would support him now. I mean, it's like she actually read his policies and about democratic socialism agrees with them based on her own opinions and ideas of improving this country...which were shaped by her own lived life experience...and then became politically-active and inspired to run for office because she believes in those policies and ideas. With someone who came into politics in that way, it's no surprise she would only see Sanders as a lot of the other candidates would either fall short or incredibly short of the type of country she herself believes in. I know with all the candidates carefully crafting themselves to be across-the-aisle men and are more in-tuned with strategy, that idea is hard-to-believe.
 

BlueRidge

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I think it is good that Pete Buttigieg is being challenged on issues of race and privilege. I know that I reacted to this young guy with little experience jumping to the front of the pack ahead of more experienced women candidates very negatively. I can only imagine how it feels to black voters. Pete seems like an emblem of white male privilege.

But I think he has shown himself willing to listen and consider issues of race (it doesn't seem like he's been directly challenged on male privilege) in a way that I find very impressive.

Here are two pieces that talk about how Pete has handled this.

What Pete Buttigieg really said about being gay, prejudice and blacks Jonathan Capehart

Pete Buttigieg, struggling to gain black support, uses N.C. church visit to issue ‘moral call to unity’

Pete visited Rev. Barber's church, not to get an endorsement but for dialogue. Here's what Rev. Barber said, “He came, he listened and he learned.”

I would like to see all the white candidates in the race equally challenged and equally rise to that challenge. It isn't just Pete Buttigieg among candidates who has benefited from white privilege, and it isn't just Pete Buttigieg who is struggling to win black support. Let's see this discussion widened to include the other candidates.
 

Sparks

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NEWS - Kamala Harris is dropping out of the presidential election today, I'm told reliably. She's informing staff now.

Not verified.
 

canbelto

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Wow. She was one of those campaigns where I felt like she should have been more appealing but for whatever reason wasn't. Still she will make a good senator for California and if a Democrat wins back the WH in 2020 definitely a good Attorney General.
 

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