The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,916
I get suspicious of anyone who tries to be everything to everybody. Makes me think they don’t have a point of view or at least their POV is something that I don’t agree with or are either naive or disingenuous about the very real differences in how people see this country (and how that is shaped by life experience which is shaped by...) and the direction we want it to go in...like the candidates you mentioned. It’s impossible to have policies and rhetoric that pleases everyone. Passing or failing to pass one thing will piss off one group, etc.
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,882
I think Nate Silver makes some good points about Elizabeth Warren's fortunes in this thread:
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
Messages
1,180
I get very frustrated when I see Democrats attacking other Democrats’ supporters because their candidate is not doing as well as they would like.

I feel like I need to drop in every once in a while as the token Biden supporter, although I am leaning more towards Pete as time goes on.

I am not a sheeple blindly following some media propaganda. Really :lol:

I am not a minion of Eville Corporate Powers. :sneaky:

My candidates of choice do not appear to me to be empty suits and they are not bought and sold, and I don’t know what language like that accomplishes

I also don’t think there any candidate is “unlikable“, or too old or too young. I will vote blue no matter who, and what is the point of irritating those who will also vote blue no matter who? We can and should disagree on policies, on issues that are important to us, but these characterizations in my opinion get us nowhere. :unsure:
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,142
I get very frustrated when I see Democrats attacking other Democrats’ supporters because their candidate is not doing as well as they would like.
With this I agree. It goes back to what President Obama said. We can't get caught up in the political purity trap.
No candidate is perfect. Not one candidate I ever voted for entirely fit my views and opinions.
The Democrat circular firing squad is giving me a headache.
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans and Democrats had some shared goals. It was just a matter of how to get there. In the age of Trump, it's long gone. I fear for our democratic republic.
 
Last edited:

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
Messages
26,345
I agree that the candidates and their supporters do not need to be out there smearing others. I think any of the top ten are fine. They all have flaws, but not such terrible flaws that they can't be successful in office. So if people go around calling Pete "racist" and he turns out to be the nominee, what does that do for us?

I would rather the candidates talked about how their plans are different/better than others.

I dunno.

I would enthusiastically support a rancid potato if it got the nomination, so while I have a favorite, I'll do whatever I can for the eventual nominee.
 

mrinalini

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,184
Sanders supporters are very willing to buy into the worst possible views of Warren, Buttigieg, and all non-Sanders candidates; once again for some of them, it seems to be coming down to Bernie or nothing.
Lots of Sanders supporters (even some of the women) are so obnoxious and downright misogynistic that they've managed to almost completely turn me off from the candidate himself. Now I know what Clinton voters had to deal with in 2016, what with their purity tests and the blind devotion to their cult leader. They're like the left version of Trump deplorables which is why channels like TYT on YT (with their blatant bias and shilling for Bernie) have become simply unwatchable to me. I'll support Sanders if he's the only progressive left standing, but solely because there's really very little daylight between his and Warren's agendas.

And of course I don't mean that every person who supports someone like Biden or Buttigieg is a lemming, but there are many who'll unquestioningly buy into the media narrative of Sanders and Warren as being pie-in-the-sky socialists and resort to Biden or Buttigieg simply because they're the 'safe' choice. I'm sure there are good reasons to support either of those candidates, but there are equally good reasons not to and I don't think it's wrong to point them out.

I've already made clear why I take issue with Biden, and I do not buy into the recent spin of all his 'gaffes' resulting from him being a stutterer. To me, it is obvious that he is in cognitive decline; it may not be so bad that he wouldn't do well as President of Lichtenstein, but it simply isn't good enough to assume the most challenging and stressful position in the world. We can do better this time especially since we have a wealth of candidates who are younger and infinitely more able-minded. I'm also sick of chauvinistic, old man ways of thinking which to me is what Biden exemplifies, and his sense of entitlement is also bothersome. Did anyone see the recent clip of him asking someone to go vote for Trump because this person had dared to question his and Obama's history on deportations? A tone-deaf response and it's just more verbal diarrhea from good ol' endearing Joe (yuck) who's on track to become the next President of the United States.

As for Buttigieg, he is young, smart, and thoughtful; IMO, he is also calculating, hypocritical, and the very definition of a Type A personality (which is not a positive to me). I thought he came off as overly practiced and rehearsed at the last debate, immature, and very easily goaded, all of which are not presidential qualities AT ALL. He is the most prepackaged candidate out of them all to me, and I am dismayed that candidates like Castro (who I find infinitely more qualified and appealing) haven't gained traction and that people have instead fallen for Buttigieg's 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' (I got that from Reddit :ROFLMAO:) bullshit. Next!
 

mrinalini

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,184
That's not what Biden or the article in The Atlantic claimed.
Biden doesn't claim that; in fact, there were points in the article where he seemed to indicate he'd beaten the stutter. However, the article doesn't really address that Biden's stumbles and gaffes could be due to cognitive decline; the focus is on stuttering and that Biden hasn't fully conquered it. In one section, it specifically highlights the fact that Biden forgetting Obama's name is a consequence of him being a stutterer; who's to say it isn't because of age-related cognitive decline or something else?

We'll see: for all our hand wringing, I think we all know deep down that Biden is going to be the nominee and has a very strong likelihood of beating Trump. Well into his presidency, when he's in his eighties or close to it, we'll see whether all the verbal diarrhea and 'gaffes' will still be there and will have worsened, and whether everyone will still be claiming that, oh, that's just ol' Joe and he used to be a stutterer, dontcha know? At that point, I'll just be confident that I was right all along.
 

skateboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,620
We'll see: for all our hand wringing, I think we all know deep down that Biden is going to be the nominee and has a very strong likelihood of beating Trump.
I don't necessarily believe that (polls are deceiving) and I very much hope Biden will not be the nominee.
 

CaliSteve

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Im not crazy with any of the nominees but I will vote and volunteer in a battleground state for whoever the nominee is.
 

Peaches LaTour

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,993
Don't attack -- get them on side.

But not only the 1%.

Also middle class voters who, e.g., don't hate their insurance companies (such as my very liberal sister who is grateful to be >5 years cancer free), or who work for insurance companies.

Even if we agree big change is needed in health coverage, public education and higher education, etc., make a case for how the changes will help all of us.
I am a middle class voter who liked my primary insurance quite a bit. Then I turned 65 & Medicare was shoved down my throat. I hate Medicare.

And I am cancer free since 2005. 😁
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,916
Lots of Sanders supporters (even some of the women) are so obnoxious and downright misogynistic that they've managed to almost completely turn me off from the candidate himself. Now I know what Clinton voters had to deal with in 2016, what with their purity tests and the blind devotion to their cult leader. They're like the left version of Trump deplorables which is why channels like TYT on YT (with their blatant bias and shilling for Bernie) have become simply unwatchable to me. I'll support Sanders if he's the only progressive left standing, but solely because there's really very little daylight between his and Warren's agendas.

And of course I don't mean that every person who supports someone like Biden or Buttigieg is a lemming, but there are many who'll unquestioningly buy into the media narrative of Sanders and Warren as being pie-in-the-sky socialists and resort to Biden or Buttigieg simply because they're the 'safe' choice. I'm sure there are good reasons to support either of those candidates, but there are equally good reasons not to and I don't think it's wrong to point them out.

I've already made clear why I take issue with Biden, and I do not buy into the recent spin of all his 'gaffes' resulting from him being a stutterer. To me, it is obvious that he is in cognitive decline; it may not be so bad that he wouldn't do well as President of Lichtenstein, but it simply isn't good enough to assume the most challenging and stressful position in the world. We can do better this time especially since we have a wealth of candidates who are younger and infinitely more able-minded. I'm also sick of chauvinistic, old man ways of thinking which to me is what Biden exemplifies, and his sense of entitlement is also bothersome. Did anyone see the recent clip of him asking someone to go vote for Trump because this person had dared to question his and Obama's history on deportations? A tone-deaf response and it's just more verbal diarrhea from good ol' endearing Joe (yuck) who's on track to become the next President of the United States.

As for Buttigieg, he is young, smart, and thoughtful; IMO, he is also calculating, hypocritical, and the very definition of a Type A personality (which is not a positive to me). I thought he came off as overly practiced and rehearsed at the last debate, immature, and very easily goaded, all of which are not presidential qualities AT ALL. He is the most prepackaged candidate out of them all to me, and I am dismayed that candidates like Castro (who I find infinitely more qualified and appealing) haven't gained traction and that people have instead fallen for Buttigieg's 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' (I got that from Reddit :ROFLMAO:) bullshit. Next!
:respec:
I mean this whole thread is full of posters saying negative things about candidates and their supporters, so it’s far from only directed at Biden/Buttigieg. Also, one could argue at lot of the smearing happening towards Warren is a result of those supporting the centrist candidates who have power to actually put those critiques on mainstream media.
 

AliasJohnDoe

Headcase Addict
Messages
5,410
I'm crazy for Pete and will work to help make him the nominee! :biggrinbo:cheer2::cheer:

I don't need to trash any of the other candidates (And I won't). They'll still get my vote in the general.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,265
So much negative energy gets whipped up about every candidate. I used to think Mayor Pete was promising-- his husband an absolute treat on Twitter. Now I find him a narrow-visioned smart suit, whose husband is bordering on celebrity wannabe at times. :lol: How you Americans get through this long, arduous battle every four years, you honestly deserve medals.

But what are the upsides to any of the candidates getting the nomination? Like Biden, is his ability to work across the aisle an asset still? Personally, I think if he gets the nomination, it'll be a Gaffe-fest of an election, with daily gaffe-offs to see who can out gaffe each other between him and Comrade Tangerine. And if you can at least laugh while the ship is sinking, then that'll be fun.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
53,877
How you Americans get through this long, arduous battle every four years, you honestly deserve medals.
No we don't, we deserve the booby prize for having this crazy nominating system in the first place. Not that anyone planned it this way, it just grew into this monster over our 200 year history!

I can succumb to going negative but I honestly think each of the candidates who has any chance at all would make a decent president. I stay away from thinking about the general election, its a mess anyway, and heck only knows how it goes.

Give me President Warren, President Buttigieg, President Biden, President Harris, President Sanders, President Booker, President Klobuchar; I will be incredibly thankful.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,625
Like Biden, is his ability to work across the aisle an asset still?
Can he still do it? Or is the ability to work across the aisle still something valuable?

I think that if anyone can still do it, he is one of those who can.

Having a Democratic President in 2021 necessarily means that Trump will have had his downfall. It's not at all clear what will happen to the Republican Party in Congress (or generally) then. It has coalesced around him, and it will have to change in some way after that. And a Republican willingness to work with Democrats may well be part of that change.

And for the Democrats' part, they will need Republican co-operation to accomplish much of anything. There is very little chance of their gaining a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate next year.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,261
One thing I respect about Conservatives and Republicans is their discipline. Their candidates will cannibalize one another publicly and nasty things are said for months during a primary, but they will get behind the eventual nominee and faithfully march to the polls. Why? Long term goals. I think with Trump, it was to reshape the federal judiciary: Regardless of how odious Trump was to some conservatives, he was going to deliver judges who would be reshaping American society long after Trump is gone. By the way, the media rarely talks about that.

I really wish our side had that discipline and vision. We whine pout and stay home if we don’t get what we want. We spend endless time searching for the transformational candidate and I don’t hear talk about the judiciary. I gave an interview to a local news affiliate about why I was voting for HRC in 2016, and I said it was the federal judiciary, knowing that Merrick Garland was on hold and that judge was going to be crucial to our future. Alas, it didn’t seem to matter because Democrat turnout was down in 2016 from Obama years

We have to be disciplined this time and get behind a cymbal clapping monkey if that is who our nominee is!
 
Last edited:

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,026
I'm also sick of chauvinistic, old man ways of thinking which to me is what Biden exemplifies, and his sense of entitlement is also bothersome.
To me that also describes Sanders. One thing that bothers me in particular is that he always mentions women as an afterthought. For example: "I want equal pay for equal work for all. Immigrants, the disabled, the young, . . . .and women".

A person shouldn't get a free pass just for being leftist.
 
Last edited:

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,331
Heres a long article about the hot mess that is Harris's campaign:

 

BittyBug

And the band played on
Messages
21,919
In order to address climate change it must be an international effort....
It's too late, and there are too many people on this planet for us to make any meaningful progress because our lust for consumption undermines any progress we might otherwise make. Barring some type of miracle or unanticipated event, I think we are past the tipping point.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
53,877
It's too late, and there are too many people on this planet for us to make any meaningful progress because our lust for consumption undermines any progress we might otherwise make. Barring some type of miracle or unanticipated event, I think we are past the tipping point.
Until global civilization falls we will need to keep dealing with climate change and trying to prevent it from worsening in the future. I read an article recently about scientists who thought we might have passed some tipping points, but they admitted that they did not know. We can't give up trying as long as we're still here.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,625
Warren Wealth Tax Has Wide Support, Except Among One Group
College-educated Republican men, though, disapprove of it by a 15-point margin — though a vast majority of Republican men with college degrees would have a net worth below the tax threshold. (College-educated Republican women approve of the policy by an even wider margin than their male counterparts oppose it.)

One note that might give Republicans pause: The wealth tax is much more popular than the tax-cut package that President Trump signed in 2017, which only 45 percent of Americans in this Times survey said was a good move.
And yes, Warren is electable, dammit! :soapbox:

Food for thought.
 

mrinalini

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,184
It goes without saying, but I'll be supporting whoever the Democratic nominee is because anybody, ANYTHING, is better than that turd in the WH. I also realize that I've been relentlessly negative about Joe Biden, so I'll do my best to keep my trap shut in regards to him from now on because he IS a good man; I just don't think he should be President.

Meanwhile, Buttigieg continues to disappoint me by releasing a new ad in Iowa which attacks Warren and Sanders' progressive policies; AOC and Ilhan Omar have already slammed him on Twitter for resorting to Republican talking points:


And for those who support Senator Warren, don't lose heart and continue fighting for her: even though the latest polling news is dispiriting, bear in mind that she has spent just a sliver of her funds on advertising and she has at least 7 million dollars' worth in ads in the early states ready to go at a later date. Meanwhile, Buttigieg is throwing a lot of what he's got into advertising in the early states and even then he isn't doing THAT much better than Warren there; heck, even Tulsi Gabbard has outspent Warren in ads thus far! Let's hope that Warren and her team are strategic and will know how to go all out in the final stretch heading towards Iowa.

Lastly, even though Biden leads nationally, there are indications that Warren has overtaken him in the key Rust Belt states:

 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,026
It's too late, and there are too many people on this planet for us to make any meaningful progress because our lust for consumption undermines any progress we might otherwise make. Barring some type of miracle or unanticipated event, I think we are past the tipping point.
Until global civilization falls we will need to keep dealing with climate change and trying to prevent it from worsening in the future. I read an article recently about scientists who thought we might have passed some tipping points, but they admitted that they did not know. We can't give up trying as long as we're still here.
I agree that we are past the tipping point.

I think that getting corporations on board is the biggest problem because the bottom line remains their priority and they take a short-term view. A while back there was news and pictures of a cruise line just dumping its trash into the ocean. :mad:
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,802
Meanwhile, Buttigieg continues to disappoint me by releasing a new ad in Iowa which attacks Warren and Sanders' progressive policies; AOC and Ilhan Omar have already slammed him on Twitter for resorting to Republican talking points:
No candidate should have to attack another one to get their point across. How about he simply focuses on what he plans to do?!
 

topaz

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,388
Personally, "attacking other democrats and candidates" as being wrong I don't have an issue with it's attacking someone's policies or agenda with facts. If someone is attacking someone's personal life, that 's wrong. But someone's record is fair game in politics.

For example, Joe Biden's ideas and stances on several issues of the last 20 years. He was wrong about NAFTA, China trade, Iraq War, Climate Change, etc. His handling of Anita Hill hearings and his complete misrepresentation of how much power he had in those proceedings. I understand his recollection of the events can evolve, but he still tries to triangulate his power and how the proceedings were handled. He was the chairman of the committee and had complete control on how those proceedings were handled.

These are fair game issues. I can't believe no one(the candidates) has really brought up and discussed Biden's view on cronyism in regards to his son's business opportunities.

Mayor's Pete's record is not that great. His record as a mayor is being brought to light - his firing of the black police chief but not firing the police officers who we have on audio talking making racist comments, "calling to get some porch monkeys", i.e profile and arrest black people. South Bend Police department's history and Buttigieg's handling of the police department. There have other issues that he has been found to be tragically silent about. the things that matter when they matter. There is a reason he has virtually no black support. That's a red flag. Black people, in particular, black women are the BASE of the democratic party. No candidate can win the democratic nomination with virtual zero percent points with blacks nationally. If you think it's possible, ask Bernie Sanders how that worked out for him in 2016. Sanders had much more support from the black community(mostly younger) than Mayor Pete has now.

He's doesn't even have the support of a small percentage of Blacks in South Bend, IN.

I referred to Mayor Pete as an empty suit because of his record, his lack of leadership on issues and he seemed to base his talking points on what specific polls rate as positive. For example, is it something he really believes in or is he speaking about an issue because the polls say it an issue the voters are interested/not interested?

I am Bernie Sanders supporter and I know there are some "Bernie Bros" that are extremely passionate about him and can be extremely offensive. But Sanders supporters are lumped into Bernie Bros narrative that HRC team pushed. I'd like to point out too that HRC in 2008 coined the term Obama Bros too. Also, I'd like to point out there were/are Hillary supporters who were absolutely HORRIBLE to women who decided not to support her in 2016. I received and witnessed horribly offensive remarks from white liberal women Hillary supporters towards women of color.

I am a Sanders supporter because of his policies, his record, his message and his views. Do I wish he would do a better job expressing some specific issues/idea, most definitely.

Bernie Sanders is criticized by MSM commentators as not being presidential not because of policies or his record but because of his appearance or assumptions about his display of emotions. 'He's angry or grumpy".
 
Last edited:

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,802
Personally, "attacking other democrats and candidates" as being wrong I don't have an issue with it's attacking someone's policies or agenda with facts. If someone is attacking someone's personal life, that 's wrong. But someone's record is fair game in politics.
I agree. At the same time, I don't think that you need to attack someone to point out what you're doing or what you're doing differently or how you set yourself apart from someone else.
Also, I think there's a difference between critique and attack and an idea/vision and a record of past actions. Buttigieg may not like Warren's and/or Sanders' ideas and vision and he may envision something else. But I'd rather he just tell me what he envisions than attacking someone else for what they envision. It seems unnecessarily negative.
 

topaz

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,388
Also, I think the political focus in this country is too focused on federal elections and not enough on local elections. The GOP has been able to change legislation for much of the country through local and state elections. They built powerful grassroots organizations that campaigned well and took over state legislation. They are supported at the state level extremely well.

From my experience, the democratic party does not support state-led grass-root organizing very well. The recent articles regarding how the DCCC and DNC support local/state candidates and purposely sabotage other progressive candidates are real.
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,882
I can't believe no one(the candidates) has really brought up and discussed Biden's view on cronyism in regards to his son's business opportunities.
To do that would be to legitimize the Republican narrative about Donald Trump's actions with respect to Ukraine. It's also irrelevant to the issues that Democratic voters and potential voters actually care about.

Unless Joe Biden has been creating business opportunities for his son, the actions of an adult (almost 50 years old) private citizen are not something his father should be held accountable for. You can and should make an argument about privilege and fair taxing without framing it like that.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 13, Guests: 13)

Top