The Race for the 2020 POTUS elections

BlueRidge

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I am feeling like Charlie Brown and the football.

I thought Hillary Clinton would in in 2016.

In January I thought Kamala Harris would win the nomination.

Then I thought Elizabeth Warren would.

Latest Quinnipiac poll shows the vicious attacks on her, largely couched as attacks on "medicare for all" have been very successful. She's dropped by half since their last poll.

Biden in the lead, and surpise of all surprises, with the media constantly repeating (albeit often by attributing it to voters) that he is the most electable, even more people think he is most electable than ever! Whoopeeee!

Can we please just get this whole thing over with? :scream:
 

VGThuy

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29,916
Yeah, I think I’ve just come to terms with the way this race and this country is going. I just tell myself, we have to make ourselves go back to where we were going in 2016 until we got derailed.
 

BlueRidge

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Candidates get nailed for short statements that have vague contexts. I'm not going to judge this one because I haven't delved into it yet but its often unfair but also very hard to repair the damage.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
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26,345
This stopped me in my tracks - I had to look it up. Yikes, Mayor Pete.
The quote is from 2011. Good Lord. Is it inelegant? Absolutely. But I teach at a high poverty school, and while we do have a mix of kids from all socio-economic groups, we have lots of kids who have no relatives who have attended college or university. These kids struggle at college if they go and very few make it all the way through.

Mayor Pete did recently promise more funding to historically Black universities; I wonder if that's what caused this quote to go viral.
 

BlueRidge

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Here's a CNN quote of Pete:

Well I reached out to the author, and while I obviously, I think that some of the characterization of me personally is unfair, I do understand the concern. What I said in that comment before I became mayor does not reflect the totality of my understanding then, and certainly now, about the obstacles that students of color face in our system today.
I believe I was speaking about the need for mentorship and the need for career pathways but the problem is to the extent that, that feels like it’s validating a narrative that sometimes blames the victim for the consequences of systematic racism, I understand why he was upset and I understand the perspective and largely agree.
 

MacMadame

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Ignoring the fact of whether YOU personally find him ridiculous,
I think you are confusing me with another poster. The word "ridiculous" never was used by me.

I can see this is personal for you so I'm going to withdraw from the debate.
 

once_upon

New condo owner
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Yang may have good ideas, but the start of promise of giving away $$$$, appears to me to be unsustainable and unrealistic. And the second debate where he was going to pay xxx number of people xxxx amount from his own pocket, just sounded like buying votes.

I seriously cannot get on board with that.
 
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mrinalini

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1,184
Warren's finding out what it's like to make enemies of the world's richest and most powerful - do we really think that all the billionaires are going to do is bitch and cry about her on T.V.? With all their wealth and influence? She wants to break up Google and Amazon, for goodness' sake! Consequently, we have the N.Y.T. with headlines like "The Danger of Elizabeth Warren" and even the Guardian has labeled her a fake progressive. The release of her M.4.A. plan gave them the perfect opportunity to unleash a torrent of vitriolic coverage towards her, even proclaiming that electing her would make Democrats lose up and down the ballot. I don't think any candidate could survive that kind of onslaught, hence the current poll numbers.

All this tells me is that she (along with Sanders) are the only ones who will effect true change, or at least are serious in their intentions of doing so. Like Andora mentioned, I see no ego with Warren; just a truly committed desire to lift up the working class. Unfortunately, once you've made mortal enemies of the top 1%, you've got an unshakable target on your back - now that Sanders is doing better than Warren and is rising in the polls, expect a media take down of him soon after having largely left him alone during Warren's ascendance. These are the only two who I truly believe can't be bought, and although I was initially resentful of him entering the race, I'm now glad that Sanders is around as a backup - if Warren continues her decline, he will be the only progressive left who might have a chance in swaying the sheeple from falling back on empty suits like Biden and Buttigieg.
 

BlueRidge

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Warren came on after they wrote her off a the start by just ignoring them and talking to voters. Its possible she could rebound, they may have hit her to early when she still has time.

That's my optimistic take, but I'm more inclined toward what you say @mrinalini She is just too threatening to the very wealthy. I think that her support of Medicare for All gave them an opening, but opposition for Medicare for All is the centrist litmus test, they will do anything to protect the profits that can be made in the health care sector. Witness also that Kamala Harris was doing well until she supported M4A, then they took her down.

They won't go after Bernie unless his support increases because they know they can't dislodge his current supporters.

The NY Times is now pitching Amy Klobuchar. I doubt it will happen but I'll go with her if she's the alternative to Biden.

A friend of mine just posted a column that was an attack on Biden on Facebook. I don't want to see us go there. Yes we want another candidate but Biden is far ahead in the polls. We don't need a situation where people won't come out to vote for him next November because of a bitter primary.
 

clairecloutier

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I have to admit that my feelings about the Dem race have turned a bit dark. As we get closer to the start of voting, it's turning more negative and Dem groups are now attacking each other pretty virulently. That Buttigieg article was a bit of an example; it wasn't an organized effort from a Dem subgroup, but it was just way harsh and I'm not quite sure why the author felt the need to call Pete a MF. I guess just to get clicks (and it worked). I found it difficult to respect his argument when he was couching it in such virulently angry terms. Some will remember that there was another really angry anti-Buttigieg article about 4 to 6 months ago, at the beginning of the campaign. The author of that piece, Nathan Robinson, is also the author of the "Warren is not a real progressive" article in the Guardian this past week. (Which I declined to read, as it's clear that Robinson's agenda is to derail anyone who isn't Sanders.)

I feel like everyone is getting very angry and starting to draw lines in the sand. Certain groups of progressives hate Buttigieg for being too centrist. More middle-of-the-road Dems hate Warren and Sanders for being too radical (this while Warren is fighting off a concerted attack from Establishment Dems in power). Sanders supporters are very willing to buy into the worst possible views of Warren, Buttigieg, and all non-Sanders candidates; once again for some of them, it seems to be coming down to Bernie or nothing. And it's unclear if black voters will accept any candidate other than Biden.

At this point I am shaking my head and not feeling optimistic about our chances if we continue attacking each other so harshly. Also, I'm uncertain who will actually prevail and be the nominee. The deep negativity about the other leading candidates benefits Biden and takes the spotlight off his many issues ... so maybe he is the nominee in the end, if only by default. :-(

None of it has changed my mind. The concerted attacks on Warren have only made it more obvious to me that we need systemic change.
 
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BlueRidge

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None of it has changed my mind. The concerted attacks on Warren have only made it more obvious to me that we need systemic change.
^^This. I will be supporting Warren unless/until she is clearly not viable. I think there is a big mistake in the criticisms of the left that it doesn't represent a big part of the party when if you look at the polling for Warren plus Sanders its obviously a significant part of the party and voters who cannot just be thrown under the bus.

I'm also concerned about the negativity. However I yelled myself hoarse (metaphorically) in 2016 making the argument that people shouldn't attack Hillary Clinton to such an extent they made people not want to vote for her in November and it was not well received.

Oh well but here I go again. I'm not attacking Biden or Buttigieg because either might be the nominee. I really am frightened of having a nominee so damaged that they can't get the vote out to win. I do think its almost a given that the Dem will win the vote, but the possibility of losing the electoral college looms large.

Right now the media seems to have moved on from Warren to taking down Buttigieg. If he can survive this he may be stronger, but I don't see him making it past Iowa because of his lack of support from voters of color.

I'm worried about Biden because of his lack of support from voters under 45. Even to win Michigan or Pennsylvania, Dems need younger voters to turn out.

I said this in November 2015, this is a national emergency. We've got to keep our eyes on the ultimate goal of defeating Trump in November 2020.

I will support the nominee, and I see good qualities in all of those who have a serious chance of winning the nomination.
 

once_upon

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I'm over 65 and I won't vote or caucus for Biden. He is too old and isn't change that we need.

If he is the nominee I will vote for him, because unlike those in the Democrat party in 2016, who couldn't vote for Hillary for whatever reason, I will hold my nose and vote for someone who will beat Trump.
 

gkelly

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I want a candidate who says they want to be a president for the whole country, that we're all in this together. I don't want someone who tries to gain support with some groups (ethnic, socioeconomic, geographic) at the expense of other groups.

Promoting the general welfare of the United States should not be a zero-sum game.
 

BlueRidge

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Joe Biden's strongest suit is his knowledge of foreign policy, diplomacy and the international system. This is my silver lining if Biden is the nominee. In order to address climate change it must be an international effort, it will require a commitment to a functioning international system; it will require a subtle understanding of how to deal with China in particular as not just an adversary or the opposite. I think Biden brings this and I think he knows who to rely on to develop policies to deal with restoring the international order.

Is he going to dislodge the corporate elite in this? No. But he can do some good here as we turn to facing climate change head on.
 

ilovepaydays

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Latest Polls (For those of you on Twitter, I highly recommend following @PpollingNumbers):
CNN Poll - National
YouGovUS Poll - National
SurveyUSA Poll - National
SurveyUSA Poll - California

WELP - If you are Warren. If you’re Buttigieg, you better hope you finish 1st or 2nd in Iowa. Sanders should be hoping to win in NH. There’s no excuse for Harris to be FOURTH in CALIFORNIA - unless she’s just that awful at this.

It’s interesting that Bloomberg is already at 3% nationally. Booker and Klobuchar should just drop out now and strategize for a VP slot (if they would be willing).
 

VGThuy

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I want a candidate who says they want to be a president for the whole country, that we're all in this together. I don't want someone who tries to gain support with some groups (ethnic, socioeconomic, geographic) at the expense of other groups.

Promoting the general welfare of the United States should not be a zero-sum game.
What does that mean in reality though? Often times, when candidates say something like that, it’s code for not caring about issues affecting minority groups because for some reason, even mentioning those issues will turn off certain white voters.
 

gkelly

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Well, they have to also address those issues specifically.

I just don't want to see campaigning framed in terms of us-vs.-them, where "them" is other Americans, especially other Americans whose votes they will need in November.
 

VGThuy

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VGThuy:

I don't find Yang ridiculous, per se. I do find him ridiculously unqualified for the office of POTUS, however.
Yang may have good ideas, but the start of promise of giving away $$$$, appears to me to be unsustainable and unrealistic. And the second debate where he was going to pay xxx number of people xxxx amount from his own pocket, just sounded like buying votes.

I seriously cannot get on board with that.
That wasn’t my point though.
 

VGThuy

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Well, they have to also address those issues specifically.

I just don't want to see campaigning framed in terms of us-vs.-them, where "them" is other Americans, especially other Americans whose votes they will need in November.
Like not attacking the wealthy?
 

gkelly

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Like not attacking the wealthy?
Don't attack -- get them on side.

But not only the 1%.

Also middle class voters who, e.g., don't hate their insurance companies (such as my very liberal sister who is grateful to be >5 years cancer free), or who work for insurance companies.

Even if we agree big change is needed in health coverage, public education and higher education, etc., make a case for how the changes will help all of us.
 

BlueRidge

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Even if we agree big change is needed in health coverage, public education and higher education, etc., make a case for how the changes will help all of us.
do you think the candidates who are advocating for big change are NOT doing this?
 

gkelly

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Well, my sister is not happy with rhetoric such as "Everybody hates their insurance company."


But beyond the specific issues, I think that it's very clear that the country is highly divided right now, and I want a candidate who recognizes that and makes uniting across divisions a priority.

At the last debate I thought some of the candidates (from memory I think Harris, Booker, and Butigeig) more or less said something along these lines in their closing remarks. I thought Warren had one statement in that direction, but other things she says are more divisive.

For that matter, I think H. Clinton did try to be as inclusive as possible in her acceptance speech at the 2016 Democratic convention, but perhaps too little too late for some rural voters.
 

MacMadame

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None of it has changed my mind. The concerted attacks on Warren have only made it more obvious to me that we need systemic change.
They reinforce why she's my candidate.

There’s no excuse for Harris to be FOURTH in CALIFORNIA - unless she’s just that awful at this.
I don't think she's been doing a good job campaigning. Also, she just became a Senator. It's not unreasonable for CA to want her to server out more of her term and run for President next time.
 

BlueRidge

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Well I'm for addressing the country as one and saying we are all in this together. I definitely think Warren needs to find a way to do this better.

IMO, bland platitudes will not suffice for this though. All the candidates need to concern themselves with all voters. There seems to me to be a big push at candidates to only address moderates and centrists, I don't find that inclusive.
 

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