The Medical Thread: Vaccine Search / Staying Healthy / Treatments Etc

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
42,663
More stupidity: my partner’s non-vaccinated cousin got exposed at work and didn’t tell his immune-compromised (also not vaccinated) wife that he’d been exposed. Now cousin is in the hospital at death’s door and wife is sick at home. WTF?
Are they in the "it's all a hoax" and "it's nothing more than the flu" crowd?
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,037
I used to think that the characters in “The Walking Dead” were too stupid to be believable because of how they behaved during a zombie apocalypse and then YKW came along….
I guess the walking dead are more intelligent than we give them credit for….
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,161
I've pointed out the errors in a church friend's statement that "c-19 vaccine wasn't developed with a double blind research protocol". I've done it a couple of times and her response is 🙄. She posted again today.

Along with needing to show proof of a vaccine immunization status is a HIPAA violation. Someone described what HIPAA is really about. Someone else pointed out the vaccine required for school and people share that information freely.

I also refuted her claim that no one.who is healthy has had to quarantine because of exposure to a list of communicable diseases - to which I presented many examples where people do and have done so.


I dont want her to know it was me if reported these statements to Facebook as false, but damn it's so frustrating. And mostly those who respond to her believe the same crap, so I'm not sure a timeout would do anything.

I guess C-19 vaccines have replaced HPV vaccines as her current target.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,635
Omg new stupidity. Someone posted this. Totally doesn't get how it takes 2 weeks for body to build the memory cells for immunity. :rolleyes:

And another peculiar twist of presenting information-just to keep the narrative
“ According to the CDC, you are not considered "fully vaccinated" until 14 days after your second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna shot. So if the ********* vaccine sends you to the hospital two days after you receive it, you're considered unvaccinated, and used as a pawn to fearmonger about a "********* of the unvaccinated"
SCIENCE!”
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
42,663
I dont want her to know it was me if reported these statements to Facebook as false,
Report her. She'll never know. Facebook barely tells you why you are in timeout and definitely not the name of someone who reported you.

I think so. They’re also trumpers
That was pretty much the only thing that made sense. If you don't think CV is worse than the flu, then you would definitely behave like that.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,057
Has a vaccine ever been recalled? Just looking for facts. Certainly drugs have . But vaccines?
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,020
Has a vaccine ever been recalled? Just looking for facts. Certainly drugs have . But vaccines?
Here's some info on the recall of a batch of Gardasil vaccine from 2013.


I'm also thinking about a issue with the flu vaccine in the 1970's that led to a recall, but I'm not finding the info I was looking for on that issue.

A google search revealed several recalls for batches of flu vaccines, and in Canada we had been using the AstraZeneca ********* vaccine before that was stopped due to the blood clot issue.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,057
Here's some info on the recall of a batch of Gardasil vaccine from 2013.


I'm also thinking about a issue with the flu vaccine in the 1970's that led to a recall, but I'm not finding the info I was looking for on that issue.

A google search revealed several recalls for batches of flu vaccines, and in Canada we had been using the AstraZeneca ********* vaccine before that was stopped due to the blood clot issue.
Gotcha thanks. Aside from AZ which is still being used elsewhere .. a vaccine technically hasn't been recalled due to it being a bad vaccine altogether.

Gardasil was glass shards. Thanks!
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,057
Omg new stupidity. Someone posted this. Totally doesn't get how it takes 2 weeks for body to build the memory cells for immunity. :rolleyes:
They will twist anything to suit what they want to believe.
My former friend .. friend is iffy he grew Up around the corner from me where I grew up ... I think he is going off the deep end between vaccine passports and his compulsive hatred for Trudeau. I don't know how his wife can stand it. I'm pretty sure it's an undiagnosed mental health issue.
 

maureenfarone

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,437
In 1976 the flu vaccine was linked to increased cases of Gillian Barre syndrome and pulled out of the market.
IIRC it was the vaccine for swine flu and not the seasonal flu vaccine which was linked to Guillain Barre.

In the early 1950's there was a problem with the Salk polio vaccine which was improperly prepared by Cutter Labs which had not followed the proper protocols. Shots were halted for a time and then resumed after careful review and testing. I don't recall exact numbers but the improperly prepared vaccine did cause polio and death in a number of children.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,161
Yes it was for swine flu
I took care of one man who was on the ventilator for 4 or 5 weeks.

Later, I took care of a little girl who has the same syndrome - but hers was attributed to a *****, not an immunization.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,350
The New York Times in its morning email focuses on booster vaccines. Since this is an email and not an article, I feel it's morally acceptable to bring the entire piece here:


The booster-industrial complex​

Late last month, researchers in Israel released some alarming new *********-19 data. The data showed that many Israelis who had been among the first to receive the vaccine were nonetheless catching the ********* *****. Israelis who had been vaccinated later were not getting infected as often.​
The study led to headlines around the world about waning immunity — the idea that vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. In the U.S., the Israeli study accelerated a debate about vaccine booster shots and played a role in the Biden administration’s recent recommendation that all Americans receive a booster shot eight months after their second dose.​
But the real story about waning immunity is more complex than the initial headlines suggested. Some scientists believe that the Israeli data was misleading and that U.S. policy on booster shots has gotten ahead of the facts. The evidence for waning immunity is murky, these scientists say, and booster shots may not have a big effect.​
After returning from an August break last week, I have spent time reaching out to scientists to ask for their help in understanding the current, confusing stage of the *********. How worried should vaccinated people be about the Delta variant? How much risk do children face? Which parts of the ********* story are being overhyped, and which deserve more attention?​
I will be trying to answer these questions in the coming weeks. (I’d also like to know what questions you want answered; submit them here.)​
One of the main messages I’m hearing from the experts is that conventional wisdom about waning immunity is problematic. Yes, the immunity from the ********* vaccines will wane at some point. But it may not yet have waned in a meaningful way.​
“There’s a big difference between needing another shot every six months versus every five years,” Dr. David Dowdy, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “So far, looking at the data we have, I’m not seeing much evidence that we’ve reached that point yet.”​

Simpson strikes again​

At first glance, the Israeli data seems straightforward: People who had been vaccinated in the winter were more likely to contract the ***** this summer than people who had been vaccinated in the spring.​
Yet it would truly be proof of waning immunity only if the two groups — the winter and spring vaccine recipients — were otherwise similar to each other. If not, the other differences between them might be the real reason for the gap in the ********* rates.​
As it turns out, the two groups were different. The first Israelis to have received the vaccine tended to be more affluent and educated. By coincidence, these same groups later were among the first exposed to the Delta variant, perhaps because they were more likely to travel. Their higher infection rate may have stemmed from the new risks they were taking, not any change in their vaccine protection.​
Statisticians have a name for this possibility — when topline statistics point to a false conclusion that disappears when you examine subgroups. It’s called Simpson’s Paradox.​
This paradox may also explain some of the U.S. data that the C.D.C. has cited to justify booster shots. Many Americans began to resume more indoor activities this spring. That more were getting ********* may reflect their newfound ********* exposure (as well as the arrival of Delta), rather than any waning of immunity over time.​

‘Where is it?’​

Sure enough, other data supports the notion that vaccine immunity is not waning much.​
The ratio of positive ********* tests among older adults and children, for example, does not seem to be changing, Dowdy notes. If waning immunity were a major problem, we should expect to see a faster rise in ********* cases among older people (who were among the first to receive shots). And even the Israeli analysis showed that the vaccines continued to prevent serious ********* illness at essentially the same rate as before.​
“If there’s data proving the need for boosters, where is it?” Zeynep Tufekci, the sociologist and Times columnist, has written.​
Part of the problem is that the waning-immunity story line is irresistible to many people. The vaccine makers — Pfizer, Moderna and others — have an incentive to promote it, because booster shots will bring them big profits. The C.D.C. and F.D.A., for their part, have a history of extreme caution, even when it harms public health. We in the media tend to suffer from bad-news bias. And many Americans are so understandably frightened by ********* that they pay more attention to alarming signs than reassuring ones.​

The bottom line​

Here’s my best attempt to give you an objective summary of the evidence, free from alarmism — and acknowledging uncertainty:​
Immunity does probably wane modestly within the first year of receiving a shot. For this reason, booster shots make sense for vulnerable people, many experts believe. As Dr. Céline Gounder of Bellevue Hospital Center told my colleague Apoorva Mandavilli, the C.D.C.’s data “support giving additional doses of vaccine to highly immunocompromised persons and nursing home residents, not to the general public.”​
The current booster shots may do little good for most people. The vaccines continue to provide excellent protection against illness (as opposed to merely a positive ********* test). People will eventually need boosters, but it may make more sense to wait for one specifically designed to combat a variant. “We don’t know whether a non-Delta booster would improve protection against Delta,” Dr. Aaron Richterman of the University of Pennsylvania told me.​
A national policy of frequent booster shots has significant costs, financially and otherwise. Among other things, the exaggerated discussion of waning immunity contributes to vaccine skepticism.​
While Americans are focusing on booster shots, other policies may do much more to beat back *********, including more vaccine mandates in the U.S.; a more rapid push to vaccinate the world (and prevent other variants from taking root); and an accelerated F.D.A. study of vaccines for children.​
As always, we should be open to changing our minds as we get new evidence. As Richterman puts it, “We have time to gather the appropriate evidence before rushing into boosters.”​
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,003
Thanks for the text, missing.
That's sort of in line with what many virologists and health experts here in Germany say too.

I also think that the first vaccine studies in Israel were conducted during lockdown and when there still were stricter restrictions, I think that also may have given a bit of an inflated result about how good the vaccine protects from infection (not severe cases).

I'm sure when I'm fully vaccinated and there's lockdown and lots of restrictions and all I do is sit in home office, go hiking with friends and do outdoor activities like horseback riding I'm a lot less likely to be infected than when I've resumed indoor dining, indoor yoga, attendings concerts and sports events, even if the vaccine protection level is exactly the same at both point of times.

If everybody in Germany were to be offered a booster after 6-8 months, I'd just consult with my doctor, whether it makes sense to get one before the end of the coming winter or whether it should be enough for the moment. Because generally it would be January or February then, which would again be a sort of dumb time, because the next high season would probably be fall/winter 2022/2023.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,507

Oxford and AstraZeneca have recently begun testing a reformulated vaccine that is designed to better target new variants, which could also be used as a booster shot.

Pollard
The first design work began in mid-December. At the moment, we’re in a position where we see very good protection [from the current vaccine] against severe disease from the variants that have been circulating. So the question I think will be: do you need a new variant vaccine? I still don’t know, because we need more evidence. Do we need to be ready? Yes. And that’s why we’re developing new vaccines. We hope we’ll have data in the autumn.

Gilbert We already know from the clinical data that we’re getting good protection against severe disease and hospitalisation against variants. It’s not like the vaccine suddenly doesn’t work at all any more. [Two doses are up to 92% effective at preventing hospitalisation, according to Public Health England data.
 

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