The Medical Thread: Vaccine Search / Staying Healthy / Treatments Etc

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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2,184
I would be interested in @aka_gerbil's take on this.

I don't have any in-depth thoughts or insight, but I do think it's an interesting/plausible hypothesis, and I'm curious to see more research into this.

The AstraZeneca vaccine trial has been put on hold. One of the patients developed an unexplained illness and they're reviewing their data. The article says it's standard precaution. (And I'm guessing the reason why many experts say a safe vaccine by late October is unlikely) https://tinyurl.com/y373jtzy

It's definitely a standard precaution to pause. It is indeed why experts have been saying that having a safe vaccine in October isn't likely. It's just the nature of research. There are always going to be hiccups.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
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22,999
My biggest concern about the pause is the media running away with it and going ALL VACCINES AREN’T SAFE!!!!!! Obviously we’d all like there to be no potential adverse events, but the pause on that trial means that appropriate safety procedures are being followed and corners are not being cut. At least as far as that part of the procedure goes. So at least I’m that way, it’s a good sign for the safety of approved vaccines.

@aka_gerbil can correct me if I’m wrong, because my understanding comes from medication trials, not vaccine trials, but I believe it is also possible at this point that the adverse event was not caused by the vaccine. When you give something new to someone and then something unexpectedly bad happens to them, you have to treat it like it was caused by the treatment until you can prove otherwise. So the pause will be partially to determine if this is or is not a side effect of the vaccine.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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2,184
Yes, it is very possible that the adverse event was not caused by the vaccine and it was a coincidence that it happened in one of the trial participants. The pause is to stop and figure out what the cause was.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,320
^That was the impression I got from the CNN article, that they were pausing the trial and reviewing their data to make sure that it was either an isolated incident or not caused by the vaccine itself.

I also found it somewhat reassuring that they mentioned that AstraZeneca had signed a pledge along with eight other companies not to get a vaccine approved prematurely. I guess, they, too have a lot to lose if the vaccine doesn't work. They want to sell something and if people don't trust the vaccine, they won't sell it.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
Messages
2,184
^That was the impression I got from the CNN article, that they were pausing the trial and reviewing their data to make sure that it was either an isolated incident or not caused by the vaccine itself.

I also found it somewhat reassuring that they mentioned that AstraZeneca had signed a pledge along with eight other companies not to get a vaccine approved prematurely. I guess, they, too have a lot to lose if the vaccine doesn't work. They want to sell something and if people don't trust the vaccine, they won't sell it.

Also, too, the scientist doing the work usually ended up doing what they do because they wanted to make a difference and help people. Big pharma is not without problems, but most people really do care a lot about safety.
 

acraven

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,026
BBC.com has an interesting article available today, focusing on vaccine distribution: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54027269

It touches on cost, an effort to assure equitable distribution to less-developed countries (guess which country hasn't signed up to help with this), and the possibility that some vaccines may require "ultra-cold-chain" distribution procedures. The article states that in less-developed countries, there is insufficient capacity today for even the more typical regular-cold-chain distribution process.

Kudos to AstraZeneca, which has apparently said it plans to supply the vaccine at cost.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
Messages
885
In news that will surprise no South Australian ever, the Flinders University/Vaxine vaccine candidate has apparently received no financial or other support whatsoever from the federal government and has been forced to look offshore for a location to conduct its main Phase 2 tests. Nevertheless, they are pushing ahead.

I swear, they'd only remember - or care - that we exist and bother to do something about us if the good wine stopped getting to the eastern seaboard. :angryfire
 

acraven

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,026
CNN has a new article with some additional information about the UK resident whose neurological issues caused a suspension of the testing of the AstraZeneca vaccine: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-trial-document/index.html.

One thing that's interesting to me is the timing of her doses: She reportedly received the first vaccination in early June and the second in late August. That's a wider gap than I would have expected, though perhaps some of it was related to the earlier incident involving another test subject who developed problems later determined to be caused by previously undiagnosed multiple sclerosis.
 

skatingfan5

Past Prancer's Corridor
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13,652
OpEd by someone who is in a vaccine trial. They are in a trial where they deliberately get exposed to the ***** too. :yikes:

:wideeyes: I didn't realize that they were actually doing human challenge trials for any CV vaccines. Without any reliably effective treatment (cure) for those who might become seriously ill, it seems of questionable ethics.
 

once_upon

Voter
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16,721
I had read this earlier, posted that I had read this type of trial happening. Someone told me that they didn't use this type of trial 9n humans.
 

once_upon

Voter
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16,721
CA is going to vet any vaccine the feds approve ourselves. Okay.

I've run out of articles I can read. Who is able to be part of the vetting process?
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,787
I've run out of articles I can read. Who is able to be part of the vetting process?
They claim their C19 articles are in a free part of the site (or I wouldn't post them) but I've noticed not all the articles fall into that category that you'd think would.

Some excerpts:

To vet a vaccine before distribution to state residents, California Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly said Friday that the state will assemble a “review board” of leading scientists at academic institutions to assess the safety and effectiveness of any vaccine candidate.

“We think it is an appropriate approach to take, especially because things are moving so quickly,” Ghaly said. “We want to make sure — despite the urge and interest in having a useful vaccine — that we do it with the utmost safety of Californians in mind.”

On the vaccine testing issue, several other states, including New York, have signaled that they’ll also take the unusual step that Ghaly outlined.

“Frankly, I’m not going to trust the federal government’s opinion, and I wouldn’t recommend to New Yorkers, based on the federal government’s opinion,” New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced at a Thursday news briefing, according to the New York Times.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,787
Predicting that the introduction of vaccine(s) is going to be chaotic:

 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,721
Predicting that the introduction of vaccine(s) is going to be chaotic:

Yeah the logistical nightmares are unbelievable.

I had heard about the unbelievably cold Temps the vaccine needed to be stored at. The transportation issues, etc

When it gets down to actually getting a vaccine? I mean at the draw up the vaccine, inject into the person shit? Its not a line em up shoot em in the arm out the door you go production line.

There are screening, forms to fill out. documenting of the serial numbers of the vaccine vial, injecting the vaccine, observing for xx minutes post injection, documenting any untoward effects that might have happened in those xx minutes. Since this is a new vaccine, there will need to be follow-up at various designated time periods, etc.

It's a freaking new vaccine that has been rushed through a process that normally takes 3-7 years to be developed. There's going to be massive follow up.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,787
I think these vaccines will only be used for people who really, really need it. First responders and healthcare workers. The rest of us will have to wait for the vaccines that are easier to distribute IMO.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,815
Yeah the logistical nightmares are unbelievable.

When it gets down to actually getting a vaccine? I mean at the draw up the vaccine, inject into the person shit? Its not a line em up shoot em in the arm out the door you go production line.

There is probably going to be huge line-ups at centers where the vaccine is provided. Hopefully family practitioners will be give the vaccine to their patients.

I know of two people who went for the test, and they waited 3 hours and 1.5 hours respectively - the latter is not so bad, given how long the wait times can at a typical busy clinic.

That wait times for a vaccine will hopefully not be any longer.

But it is going to be chaos in the beginning, with everyone clamoring for the vaccine. Decisions will have to be made about who gets is first, second, etc. And those decisions won't seem agreeable to many people.
 

flyingsit

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,373
Some of the vaccines under development cannot be distributed and given at pharmacies, clinics, etc. without a lot of effort and money put into logistics. One needs to be stored at roughly -90 degrees and I believe that in general only hospitals have that type of storage available. Definitely not possible at CVS, Walgreens, Target, etc., or in any kind of mobile setup.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,468
Are there any news about the Russian vaccine? Is it being distributed to the whole population? Any news about how compatible it is?
 

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