The Medical Thread: Vaccine Search / Staying Healthy / Treatments Etc

[acraven]

This article is only extremely tangentially related to COVID-19, but it's fascinating:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia

The gist of it is that catching measles causes one's memory T-cells to forget what they know about identifying/neutralizing almost all other pathogens previously encountered or vaccinated against. You end up with T-cells that are expert at wiping out any future exposure to measles, but you no longer have immunity to other diseases. This has potential implications for people who believe they're fully vaxxed against COVID-19 (and other diseases) but subsequently catch measles.

This table (from a different source) shows vaccination rates for measles by country. The US is just at 92%. Ii don't know whether that's a result of the anti-vax movement or failure to vaccinate folks who were past childhood when the first measles vaccine was introduced in 1963; the combination MMR vaccine was first authorized for use in the US in 1971. Two European countries have scary-low measles-vaccination rates, Montenegro at 58% and Bosnia-Herzegovina at 68%. A few others are in the 80%-90% range.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-measles-vaccination-rates.html

 

[Judy]

Yeah, I was surprised when I read your timeline that you got the second shot so soon after actually having Delta. They wouldn't do that here but I guess we all just have to trust our own health authorities and make our own decisions.



I read that on an Ottawa Health page ( I check for my parents) and was surprised they were recommending people to just get both shots done at the same time because here we are being told to wait 2-3 weeks between regular flu shot and booster. I got my regular flu shot 13 days ago and she told me at the time to wait at least two weeks. Got my text yesterday to show up today for my booster with the caveat to wait at least two weeks after having the flu shot so I think I will just go in on Friday or Monday for the booster, especially after what you just posted. We get a text invite with a barcode and once we have that we can show up any day after that (though preferably at the date and time they say but that doesn't always work out).

It is safe to give both shots at once. I know the vaccination clinics and pharmacies are doing it (part of the questionnaire filled out beforehand.
'

Www.tinyurl.com/58kbtan2

 

[MacMadame]

The Atlantic's email today is about boosters! Boosters, boosters, boosters!

The C*rnavirus Pand*mic​

If the booster rollout is a TV show (as my colleague Rachel Gutman once joked), this evening brought a juicy—if not entirely unexpected—plot twist: According to The New York Times, the FDA and CDC are moving to make Pfizer boosters available to all adults, not just those at higher risk. And they reportedly plan to move quickly, with an authorization coming as soon as this week.

So should you rush out for your extra dose?

To help you figure out what’s right in your situation, I spoke with three reporters who have been covering the vaccine rollout—Sarah Zhang, Katherine J. Wu, and Rachel Gutman—to weigh the pros and cons of running out immediately versus sitting tight.

Why hurry

• The shot will, well, give you a boost. You’re likely already well protected from severe disease, hospitalization, and death thanks to your first course, Rachel pointed out. But the early science suggests that extra doses help your body produce additional antibodies, perhaps lowering your risk of infection.
• You’re in a higher-risk group. If you’re an older American or have additional health conditions that make you particularly vulnerable, the case is more clear-cut. That extra protection is extra important, Katie told me, because “your tank has drained a little faster than other people’s.”
• You’re around higher-risk people. Parents who are trying to protect unvaccinated kids, for example, might consider using a booster as an additional precaution, Sarah told me.
• You plan to gather over the holidays. The winter chill moves celebrations indoors, elevating risk. On average, antibodies peak three weeks post-booster, Rachel explained, though it varies person to person. So if you’re concerned about keeping your family safe at Christmastime, now might be a good option.
• Breakthrough infections are inconvenient at best. Even for those who are not in the high-risk bucket, boosters can help stave off milder breakthroughs and asymptomatic disease—a real boon for individuals when a positive COVID test can be a logistical nightmare. “A breakthrough infection can still be really disruptive for your life,” even if it’s mild, Sarah Zhang reminded us.

Why wait

• We don’t know how to optimize vaccine timing yet. Boosters haven’t been available that long, so the science on timing is preliminary. “It’s not an argument for or against. It’s just a fact that nobody has yet pinpointed the most effective time to get a booster, if at all, if you’re a healthy adult,” Rachel told me. And boosting too early might not be ideal: “After you show an immune system a vaccine for the first time, your cells study up on it,” Katie explained. “If you boost too soon, you might catch those cells while they’re still in the early learning process and not get the most juice you can get out of that squeeze.”
• Extra doses mean extra chances of side effects. Getting a booster could increase your risk of rare side effects, Katie explained: “There’s a reason we don’t boost unnecessarily.” (But that, she added, is not a reason to not get jabbed if you do need it.) And, of course, boosting means subjecting yourself to the more common side effects, such as fatigue and fever, for another round, Rachel explained.
• Keep the bigger picture in mind. Boosters aren’t a “silver bullet,” Katie reminded me. And, though this won’t be solved by you forgoing an extra shot, there are lots of people in the world who haven’t even gotten their first dose yet. That’s worth remembering.

Still have questions? Tell us.

 

[marbri]

It is safe to give both shots at once. I know the vaccination clinics and pharmacies are doing it (part of the questionnaire filled out beforehand.
'

Www.tinyurl.com/58kbtan2

Yes, I know Canada is recommending to get both at the same time. I was saying that here they want us to wait 2-3 weeks between the shots. Maybe for the reasons in the post I was responding to

 

[Yehudi]

I did both yesterday, booster shot in left and flu in right. Flu arm is fine, booster arm still hurts to move a bit.

 

[skatingfan5]

I did both yesterday, booster shot in left and flu in right. Flu arm is fine, booster arm still hurts to move a bit.

I had scheduled to get both my Moderna booster and a flu shot last Tuesday, but when I arrived at the pharmacy I decided to postpone the booster and just get the flu shot. I’m glad I did because for the first time ever I had a really painful reaction from the flu shot. My arm and shoulder were very painful that night and the next day even after taking two doses of ibuprofen. It was not until 3 days later that I could move my arm without pain. It might have been due to the injection being given too high on my arm or something else about the pharmacist’s technique ( the injection itself was really painful which also was a first for me). Anyway I’m glad I could use my other arm :lol and need to reschedule my booster in the next few days.

 

[Judy]

I had scheduled to get both my Moderna booster and a flu shot last Tuesday, but when I arrived at the pharmacy I decided to postpone the booster and just get the flu shot. I’m glad I did because for the first time ever I had a really painful reaction from the flu shot. My arm and shoulder were very painful that night and the next day even after taking two doses of ibuprofen. It was not until 3 days later that I could move my arm without pain. It might have been due to the injection being given too high on my arm or something else about the pharmacist’s technique ( the injection itself was really painful which also was a first for me). Anyway I’m glad I could use my other arm :lol and need to reschedule my booster in the next few days.

I had that happen when I got my first H1N1 shot ... extremely painful and had a hard time moving my arm. It turned out she hit a nerve and Tylenol resolved it. At least you were smart enough to take a painkiller.

 

[BaileyCatts]

I am so confused about this booster thing. I thought you were not supposed to get the booster until 6 months after your last of the 2 shots deal? I keep getting swamped with texts from Kroger to come get my booster, but I had the 2nd shot in September, which means I don't need the booster until March, right?

 

[MLIS]

“Multiple sources report” Health Canada will officially approve the Pfizer paediatric dose (ages 5-11) on Friday. One relieved mama just burst into tears over here.

https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/1461116927896608777?s=21

 

[skategal]

“Multiple sources report” Health Canada will officially approve the Pfizer paediatric dose (ages 5-11) on Friday. One relieved mama just burst into tears over here.

https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/1461116927896608777?s=21

Yay another happy mom here too!

I had heard the week of Nov 22nd but my spidey senses were thinking it would be Friday.

Yippee!!

 

[Debbie S]

I am so confused about this booster thing. I thought you were not supposed to get the booster until 6 months after your last of the 2 shots deal? I keep getting swamped with texts from Kroger to come get my booster, but I had the 2nd shot in September, which means I don't need the booster until March, right?

If you got J&J, you can get a booster (either Pfizer or Moderna) 2 months after your earlier shot. If you got Pfizer or Moderna the first go-round, you wait 6 months.

 

[Judy]

“Multiple sources report” Health Canada will officially approve the Pfizer paediatric dose (ages 5-11) on Friday. One relieved mama just burst into tears over here.

https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/1461116927896608777?s=21

That's awesome! Hugs as well.

 

[Vagabond]

I am so confused about this booster thing. I thought you were not supposed to get the booster until 6 months after your last of the 2 shots deal? I keep getting swamped with texts from Kroger to come get my booster, but I had the 2nd shot in September, which means I don't need the booster until March, right?

Right.

COVID-19 Booster Shot

Learn who is eligible for a COVID-19 booster shot.

bit.ly

IF YOU RECEIVED
Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna....

When to get a booster:
At least 6 months after completing your primary ... vaccination series

Note that the same CDC webpage has the Federal restrictions as to who can get a booster shot, but in some states you can get them if you are over 18.

 

[Miezekatze]

@Hedwig : because you were writing about it here so often: I just read in my German newsblog that the first Pfizer deliveries for vaccinating children aged 5 to 11 in Germany are expected in December. If EMA approves the vaccine in November (that's the expected time frame), then vaccinations could start on December 20th.

 

[Hedwig]

@Hedwig : because you were writing about it here so often: I just read in my German newsblog that the first Pfizer deliveries for vaccinating children aged 5 to 11 in Germany are expected in December. If EMA approves the vaccine in November (that's the expected time frame), then vaccinations could start on December 20th.

Yes. thanks. I already read about it and don't understand why it takes so long from the end of November till the 20th of December to actually START.
I guess it is the smaller doses so that new kinds of vaccination vials will have to be produced. But why not order them already? And I know from Doctors who took the normal vial and then just used one third of the vaccine for children they were vaccinating off label.
I don't feel like having the time - it is another 5 weeks with a really really high incidence. I really don't want Mini Hedwig to get infected in the last few minutes of this race

 

[TOADS]

I just heard on our local news station that apparently there is a new variant sweeping the UK. Details are lacking as to how contagious or deadly it may be.

Wonderful.

 

[skategal]

Yes. thanks. I already read about it and don't understand why it takes so long from the end of November till the 20th of December to actually START.
I guess it is the smaller doses so that new kinds of vaccination vials will have to be produced. But why not order them already? And I know from Doctors who took the normal vial and then just used one third of the vaccine for children they were vaccinating off label.
I don't feel like having the time - it is another 5 weeks with a really really high incidence. I really don't want Mini Hedwig to get infected in the last few minutes of this race

I totally get this feeling.

We are down to the end now and I am more paranoid than ever.

We pulled DS from school this week (as did half the school) amid CV cases in the school setting within a highly vaccinated province.

Hang in there…..(((((hugs))))

 

[MsZem]

I just heard on our local news station that apparently there is a new variant sweeping the UK. Details are lacking as to how contagious or deadly it may be.

It's not the first time we've heard of some scary new variant, and not all of them lived up to their hype.

Anyway, if it causes a milder form of the disease, maybe this isn't such a bad thing.

Covid Delta variant offshoot ‘less likely’ to cause symptoms

Scientists in React study suggest virus from dominant Delta variant more likely to cause asymptomatic infections

bit.ly

 

[TOADS]

It's not the first time we've heard of some scary new variant, and not all of them lived up to their hype.

Anyway, if it causes a milder form of the disease, maybe this isn't such a bad thing.

Covid Delta variant offshoot ‘less likely’ to cause symptoms

Scientists in React study suggest virus from dominant Delta variant more likely to cause asymptomatic infections

bit.ly

This may add more fuel to the fire that they should de emphasize total case counts and report only case counts that produce actual symptoms, hospitalizations, or deaths.

 

[skategal]

“Multiple sources report” Health Canada will officially approve the Pfizer paediatric dose (ages 5-11) on Friday. One relieved mama just burst into tears over here.

https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/1461116927896608777?s=21

It’s probably a bit different for each province but says shots in arms by November 25th for NS.

 

[MLIS]

It’s probably a bit different for each province but says shots in arms by November 25th for NS.

I'm in Ottawa, and there have been lots of people saying "Ottawa Public Health is ready to go" so I am hoping that as soon as doses arrive they will roll out. Hoping for more details in the next couple of days. My seven year old has her birthday in a couple of weeks, she told me the other night it would be "the best ever birthday present." She hates needles and has fought shots in the past, but she is READY. TO. GO. with this one. Our kids have carried a heavy burden over the last 20 months.

 

[skategal]

I'm in Ottawa, and there have been lots of people saying "Ottawa Public Health is ready to go" so I am hoping that as soon as doses arrive they will roll out. Hoping for more details in the next couple of days. My seven year old has her birthday in a couple of weeks, she told me the other night it would be "the best ever birthday present." She hates needles and has fought shots in the past, but she is READY. TO. GO. with this one. Our kids have carried a heavy burden over the last 20 months.

Yes hopefully sooner for you.

Says NS pharmacies were working towards having doses roll out starting tomorrow but it didn’t work out.

Not sure why.

NL also says that they are ready to go on approval.

My 11 year old is ready to go too.

The thought of having online school again is not a happy one for him.

Finally some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Frau Muller]

It's not the first time we've heard of some scary new variant, and not all of them lived up to their hype.

Anyway, if it causes a milder form of the disease, maybe this isn't such a bad thing.

Covid Delta variant offshoot ‘less likely’ to cause symptoms

Scientists in React study suggest virus from dominant Delta variant more likely to cause asymptomatic infections

bit.ly

Now we have the R-1 variant sweeping nursing homes in Kentucky…originated in Japan.

New R.1 COVID-19 Variant With 'Unique Mutations' Discovered at Kentucky Nursing Home

A new variant of the COVID-19 virus has been discovered at a Kentucky nursing home, where it has ...

www.theepochtimes.com

Not sure how reliable is Epoch Times.

Alternate source:

Another COVID Variant Detected In Kentucky: What’s Known About The Japanese R.1 Strain

"R.1 is a variant to watch. It has established a foothold in both Japan and the United States," Scientist William A. Haseltine, said.

www.ibtimes.com

 

[jeffisjeff]

My son's university made boosters available to all students this week, using the argument that college students fall into a high-risk category due to potential exposure. Given the behavior I see on a daily basis, I can't argue with that.

So my son was able to get boosted about 1 week before he flies home for Thanksgiving. I would have preferred that to be a week earlier, but I'll take what we can get.

 

[Parsley Sage]

“Multiple sources report” Health Canada will officially approve the Pfizer paediatric dose (ages 5-11) on Friday. One relieved mama just burst into tears over here.

https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/1461116927896608777?s=21

I think NACI still has to give their recommendation once Health Canada approves.

 

[skategal]

I think NACI still has to give their recommendation once Health Canada approves.

Said that both HC approval and NACI recommendation will come at the same time.

We will see.

Would be great if they actually coordinated this for once.

 

[Miezekatze]

It's not the first time we've heard of some scary new variant, and not all of them lived up to their hype.

Anyway, if it causes a milder form of the disease, maybe this isn't such a bad thing.

Covid Delta variant offshoot ‘less likely’ to cause symptoms

Scientists in React study suggest virus from dominant Delta variant more likely to cause asymptomatic infections

bit.ly

Our head virologist always says that Great Britain has already reached the phase where nearly all people have a basic immunity (either through vaccination or infection) and now need to develop a more stable lasting immunity by getting reinfected about 3 or 4 times over the years with mild cases until everybody has gained a really stable immunity.

If this variant causes more asymptomatic infections to me that sounds ilke it might be a sign of this starting to happen?

 

[Aceon6]

Massachusetts has approved boosters for all adults effective immediately.

 

[Judy]

For Canada the press conference will be at 10 am tomorrow.

 

[TOADS]

Massachusetts has approved boosters for all adults effective immediately.

We got our two weeks ago!