The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

firstflight

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529
Last year, T/T also had an awesome Madonna RD too. Much better than Fear/Gibson’s attempt at Madonna.
Oh yes, totally agree. I posted about their RD, including the fabulous headband, in another thread. Especially Filip’s Instagram post related the program :) :)
 

Bouffantrex

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200
Good lord, Guignard/Fabbri are still competing? European dance is certainly a sad state of affairs if they are doing battle with the Brits for European gold. I am not impressed with either team's free dances, but at least Guignard/Fabbri aren't doing the exact same program they've done the last four years, and their basics are reasonably matched.

And don't mention the Russians, they'd simply make the event less tasteful and more corrupt.
 
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Dai's Blues for Klook

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978
Let's assume Russia will stay out of it for the entire quad, because if they're back, the top team will just wham everyone at Euros and keep getting momentum and reputation to always be on the worlds podium.

This should be another North American quad because I don't see anything interesting coming out of Europe. I don't know if KanaDai are ever going to be good enough technically to win anything major (except maybe a team medal at medal 2026 and a 4CC medal), even if they put out the most creative work. Korea has a good team now, don't know if they can rise to a good standing by Milan (would they even be eligible?). Maybe next quad we'll finally have a stronger Asian presence.
 

Karen-W

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Let's assume Russia will stay out of it for the entire quad, because if they're back, the top team will just wham everyone at Euros and keep getting momentum and reputation to always be on the worlds podium.

This should be another North American quad because I don't see anything interesting coming out of Europe. I don't know if KanaDai are ever going to be good enough technically to win anything major (except maybe a team medal at medal 2026 and a 4CC medal), even if they put out the most creative work. Korea has a good team now, don't know if they can rise to a good standing by Milan (would they even be eligible?). Maybe next quad we'll finally have a stronger Asian presence.
Well, KanaDai already have a 4CCs medal, but we'll see how they do at a fully contested 4CCs. They're probably somewhere around 7th or 8th, depending on the material of Wang/Liu and the #3 US & Canadian teams.

Lim/Quan are already age-eligible for seniors, but chose to stay in junior, wisely IMO, another season. I don't see them challenging the US or Canadian teams, nor even Wang/Liu and KanaDai.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

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978
Well, KanaDai already have a 4CCs medal, but we'll see how they do at a fully contested 4CCs. They're probably somewhere around 7th or 8th, depending on the material of Wang/Liu and the #3 US & Canadian teams.

Lim/Quan are already age-eligible for seniors, but chose to stay in junior, wisely IMO, another season. I don't see them challenging the US or Canadian teams, nor even Wang/Liu and KanaDai.
I meant this quad for KanaDai :lol: I think they'll be getting top 10 at worlds and "more experience" for themselves and one other team as long as they compete.

I'm kind of disappointed in Chinese ID because I just dislike W/L's (and Chen/Sun's) skating quality and really wish they'd sent a junior team for training outside already, but oh well. Lim/Quan should be able to overtake them if they get good enough material, don't know if the politics will allow it.
 

litenkyckling

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461
Not this quad, but 2 of the junior British teams have potential, especially Slatter/Ongay Perez. While I don’t personally think F/G are good enough (now) for Euro gold, I am pleased that they will likely keep 2 spots at worlds for GB as I do think that the momentum and talent is there for GB to rise in ice dance. I’m thinking more to the levels of France or Italy, with 2 teams consistently top 10 at Euros.

This quad, I’d say are we not seeing the huge rise of Czech teams? We’re potentially looking at Czech JW Champs. Or perhaps just a rise for Zanni’s teams, which is an exciting prospect now he has K/R (who I think are genuinely interesting. They popularised In The End, cartwheels and now G/F are using their music from last season).
 

deegee

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437
Good lord, Guignard/Fabbri are still competing? European dance is certainly a sad state of affairs if they are doing battle with the Brits for European gold. I am not impressed with either team's free dances, but at least Guignard/Fabbri aren't doing the exact same program they've done the last four years, and their basics are reasonably matched.

And don't mention the Russians, they'd simply make the event less tasteful and more corrupt.
if chock/bates & gilles/porrier can stay in for a couple more years, why not g/f? the first two teams are hit or miss with truly good programs (and quite frankly, i don't think c/b's snake charmer or eillish programs would be received as well were it not for chock's pure stunningly gorgeous presence and charisma).

would love to see hawayek/baker come out gangbusters with amazing programs that the judges simply can't deny and finally overtake c/b as the top u.s. team, but it just hasn't gone their way since they became seniors, unfortunately.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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Between the Czechs, Germans, Koreans, and Brits (and maybe more that I'm forgetting), I'd say Europe and Asia have a very promising future in dance. Even if some of them retire or split before they really get going, as usually happens with at least a few teams along the way, things are looking good.
 
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PRlady

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Between the Czechs, Germans, Koreans, and Brits (and maybe more that I'm forgetting), I'd say Europe and Asia have a very promising future in dance. Even if some of them retire or split before they really get going, as usually happens with at least a few teams along the way, things are looking good
Promising young Japanese and Canadian teams as well. It’s sure better to be a dance Uber than a pairs Uber right now.
 

GoneWithTheWind

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if chock/bates & gilles/porrier can stay in for a couple more years, why not g/f?
Agreed. And G/F almost have more reason to stay: they've not yet won a world medal, nor got higher than a bronze at Europeans. Plus, the next Olympics are not just in their home country but in their hometown. Personally, I'm hoping they'll stay the whole quad and manage to get on the Olys podium in 2026.
 

firstflight

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And a literal…like actually literal…climate change FD for T/T!

It’s like their team watched Weaver/Poje’s FD from 2016, loved the music, and reinterpreted “This Bitter Earth” to mean the Earth is dying.

Has anyone else done such an “in your face” talking program?

This makes me so want Green/Parsons’ FD to Rhapsody in Blue to include sentences from a United Airlines safety video.
 
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RoseRed

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2,054
And a literal…like actually literal…climate change FD for T/T!

It’s like their team watched Weaver/Poje’s FD from 2016, loved the music, and reinterpreted “This Bitter Earth” to mean the Earth is dying.

Has anyone else done such an “in your face” talking program?

This makes me so want Green/Parsons’ FD to Rhapsody in Blue to include sentences from a United Airlines safety video.
There was the cancer FD by Mueller/Dieck. But I don't think it had this many voiceovers
 

VGThuy

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Kaori Sakamoto may have started a trend when she told everyone through her LP music how much she loved being a woman last season.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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72,593
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Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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Andrea82

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410
Both McNamara/Spiridinov and Harris/Chan had one element missing from Nebelhorn Free Dance protocols. Based on their previous seasonal appearances, it is a Choreographic Assisted Jump.
What are the requirements? 3 in a row, not more than 1 and 1/2 rotation and not more than 3 steps between one AJ and the other, not more than 3 seconds in air...something else?

I am trying to understand what fault the panel at Nebelhorn (Christine Hurt, Benjamin Blum and Candice Towler-Green) found and if there were differences compared to earlier competitions. Are there any videos of M/S's Lake Placid appearances? I am sure I've seen their FD from Lake Placid International but I can't find the video anymore.

M/S competed at Lake Placid International (tech panel was Kathleen Cutone-Kristin Fraser-Bianca Szijgyarto) and US International (panel: John Millier, Kristin Fraser, Marie Louise Gijtenbeek).
H/C got the ChAJ credited at Britannia International (Marcin Kozubek, Marie Louise Gijtenbeek and Slavka Grinkova calling).
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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@Andrea82 , From what I can tell, for Harris & Chan, the 2nd assisted jump is a bit more than 1.5 revolutions by about 1/4 revolution. For McNamara & Spridinov, the 1st jump isn’t assisted. Spiridinov jumps, but McNamara’s hands are just touching him, not actually “assisting” him. I can’t see any other reason to invalidate that element.

I know the Choreographic Assisted Jumps went through some rule changes even before the season started, but I’m not sure what the updated requirements are. I’m not sure if it went from 1.5 revs allowed to 1, or 1 rev allowed to 1.5. The best I could find is Communication 2468 Updated on August 31, 2022. The Choreographic Assisted Jump requirements are as follows:

Choreographic Assisted Jump Movement: at least three assisted jump movements performed continuously in a row, performed anywhere in the program The following requirements apply:
  • At least three in a row (same or different) performed continuously
  • Cannot rotate more than one (1) rotation in each assisted jump movement by the assisting partner
  • Less than three seconds off the ice for assisted partner
  • No more than three (3) steps in between each assisted jump movement - Either partner may do the assisted jump movement

This could explain Harris & Chan’s invalidation regardless, as the element is designed to have the 2nd choreographic jump be 1.5 revs. But for McNamara & Spridinov, I don’t see a strict requirement that the jump is actually assisted? Unless it’s implied in the name of the element. I imagine there’s going to be a Q&A clarification coming.
 

Andrea82

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410
@Andrea82 , From what I can tell, for Harris & Chan, the 2nd assisted jump is a bit more than 1.5 revolutions by about 1/4 revolution. For McNamara & Spridinov, the 1st jump isn’t assisted. Spiridinov jumps, but McNamara’s hands are just touching him, not actually “assisting” him. I can’t see any other reason to invalidate that element.

I know the Choreographic Assisted Jumps went through some rule changes even before the season started, but I’m not sure what the updated requirements are. I’m not sure if it went from 1.5 revs allowed to 1, or 1 rev allowed to 1.5. The best I could find is Communication 2468 Updated on August 31, 2022. The Choreographic Assisted Jump requirements are as follows:



This could explain Harris & Chan’s invalidation regardless, as the element is designed to have the 2nd choreographic jump be 1.5 revs. But for McNamara & Spridinov, I don’t see a strict requirement that the jump is actually assisted? Unless it’s implied in the name of the element. I imagine there’s going to be a Q&A clarification coming.

Many thanks.
Yes, when I was rewatching it in "live" speed, I noticed that Harris/Chan's 2nd "jump" looked close to the 1 and half limit.
I tried to "play" with YouTube stopping the video when she leaves the ice and when she puts her first foot down but I wasn't fast enough in stopping...I won't become a replay operator.

However, you are right in any case.
It is 1 rotation maximum in the revised (1 September) version of the Technical rules while it was 1 and half in the April version of the ISU communication.
They likely choreographed the program based on the first rule and they didn't notice it was changed to only 1 rotation.
The Brittania International Cup panel may have called it correctly as the competition was at the end of August if the change was added on 1/9.
 
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Dobre

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I'm very behind on this thread because I still haven't watched all the free dances from Riga; but I wanted to drop in to say that I thought the speed with which the audience at Nebelhorn got right back behind Reed & Ambrulevicius's FD after the mistake was a very good sign that it's a good program. The music has a lot of change in it, and gets the audience at the end. The choreo steps are used well & don't feel like they are slowing down the pace of the program (which happens sometimes because the athletes aren't free to cover the ice the way they might wish). Anyway, that was my main take away from the dance event at Nebelhorn, though there were some other very nice moments as well.
 

Dobre

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I was also going to say, unrelated to Nebelhorn, that I think Wolfkostin & Chen's FD music is good. I don't think the choreography & performance style reflect the sense of soul or abandon that the music calls for. It would be nice to see that come into the program.
 

love skating

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Regarding the choreographic assisted jumps that were invalidated - do the skaters get feedback from the judges or callers to know just went wrong, so that it won't happen to them again? I'm also wondering about protesting one's score. In gymnastics, especially rhythmic gymnastics, they have coaches/teams etc. watching the scores like a hawk and they immediately put in protests when they think the gymnast wasn't scored correctly. In skating it feels like the skater wonders why a score is so low and later gets the protocol, but I was curious about what the rules were about protesting. Like for example, if a skater does a quad axel, but it is wrongly put in the scoring system as a triple axel and no one catches it until the event is over - I was just wondering what the rules were. And this case would these dance teams have any right to say "hey, that should have counted" or is there no recourse... or is there a time limit when they could ask about it. Just curious about the whole process.
 

Debbie S

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If an element is called incorrectly (ex: a triple is called a double, a lutz is called a salchow), then the coach can file a protest and it can be reviewed and changed after the fact, although there is supposed to be a read-back at the end to verify each element and it's the responsibility of the tech controller to make sure calls are accurate.

Any calls involving GOE, levels, underrotations/downgrades, edge calls, PCS, are not eligible for review/correction. Calling an element invalid/no credit fits in this category (unless it involves calling errors as noted above) along with music and costume deductions.

Yes, coaches can request an explanation from the technical panel on why their skater/team did not receive credit for something.
 

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