The Climate Emergency

nylynnr

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Lovely. Rather than taking the suggestions in the spirit of what you can do to help not only yourself, your family and your fellow humans, you take it s a personal attack. Let me guess: you don't think humans are contributing to climate change, and you think you have the right to live your life however you see fit, and f*ck everyone else if it's bad for them or the planet.
Very much to the contrary. I follow every edict in my post, with the exception of bathing -- I do shower daily, but keep the water tepid. I've never owned a house, operated a dishwasher, driven a car, had children. I eat meat rarely. I don't own a washer or dryer. I shop secondhand. My carbon footprint is quite moderate.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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My idea was that usually people come with draconian suggestions, and other people reject them. But if everyone evaluates their current lifestyle and decides what they can and will do, and then do it, there is a chance to make a reasonable difference.

Btw, if you are washing dishes by hand, you would generally do better to use a high efficiency dishwasher.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,336
My idea was that usually people come with draconian suggestions, and other people reject them. But if everyone evaluates their current lifestyle and decides what they can and will do, and then do it, there is a chance to make a reasonable difference.

Btw, if you are washing dishes by hand, you would generally do better to use a high efficiency dishwasher.

I would say, yes but.

It can be frustrating trying to do all the things suggested and then if you don't see others doing it, it becomes discouraging.

So I think its important that people not beat themselves up (or others!) for what they do or don't do individually. Do what you feel you can but don't make it the be-all and the end-all.
 

clairecloutier

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Btw, if you are washing dishes by hand, you would generally do better to use a high efficiency dishwasher.

Also, every time there's a heat wave, we're reminded that it can be dangerous, particularly for older people, to be in homes that are not air conditioned during excessive high temps/humid conditions. This is why towns and cities open cooling stations.
 

BlueRidge

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Also, every time there's a heat wave, we're reminded that it can be dangerous, particularly for older people, to be in homes that are not air conditioned during excessive high temps/humid conditions. This is why towns and cities open cooling stations.
The New York Times has a piece on the danger of high temps at night:


We're in the stage where we need both mitigation and adaptation to the climate change that is already happening. Cities need programs to protect vulnerable people from heat waves. There was an article a few days ago about the potential in heat waves for electricity blackouts so that no one has AC because it is at such a high use level. This is something cities need to prepare for with backup generators and cooling centers that can accommodate more people.
 

BittyBug

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@nylynnr thanks for the clarification and my apologies for misunderstanding your original post. As you may be able to tell from my posts in this thread, this topic puts me on edge. (Not an excuse, just some context.) I'm sorry for directing that at you.

@DORISPULASKI another small step people can take is to turn off the "Heat Dry" option on their dishwasher. I started doing this recently and the dishes still dry just fine, but with lower energy consumption.
 

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
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I've been staying out of the thread so far because I tend to be on the BittyBug end of it - basically, it's hard to take the message of "This is our last chance to mitigate climate change" seriously, because I think we already missed that boat.

I also understand that serious mitigation requires industrial change, and that individual change won't make a dent - but I also believe that without individual change, there will be no pressure to change at the corporate/industrial level. If individuals just throw up their hands and say "nothing I do will stop this, so why should I change my behavior?" then nothing will ever change. Industries, and governments, are not going to willingly abandon practices that create convenience, profits and promote expansion.

I just read an article about all the wild shellfish that boiled to death in the PNW during the recent heatwave. Just.... :fragile:
 

BlueRidge

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I think we do have the face the reality that this is not about individual effort.

The changes have to be global and we need to make changes that can only be made through political processes. I think some important efforts can be done by organizing community-wide groups such as for local sustainable agriculture, barter networks, etc., but the individual level is not going to be enough.

Organizing to get lots of people to buy into individual changes can make a difference by pressuring governments and corporations. If a group sets up a way for people to buy products in refillable containers and then is able to get more and more people to join in, that makes a difference.

It just really has to be larger than our own solitary individual choices. More important is speaking up and joining with others to call for change and to set up community wide solutions.
 

BlueRidge

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I've been staying out of the thread so far because I tend to be on the BittyBug end of it - basically, it's hard to take the message of "This is our last chance to mitigate climate change" seriously, because I think we already missed that boat.
That isn't what the scientists working on the issue say. We may have missed the first target but we still can hit the next target for temparature increases, and hitting that target is still way better than missing that target and having to strive for the next possible one.
 

genevieve

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I think we do have the face the reality that this is not about individual effort.


Organizing to get lots of people to buy into individual changes can make a difference by pressuring governments and corporations. If a group sets up a way for people to buy products in refillable containers and then is able to get more and more people to join in, that makes a difference.

It just really has to be larger than our own solitary individual choices. More important is speaking up and joining with others to call for change and to set up community wide solutions.
I think this aligns with what I was saying (or meant to convey). Individual change isn't going to do it, but large scale change requires individual effort (and change).

That isn't what the scientists working on the issue say. We may have missed the first target but we still can hit the next target for temparature increases, and hitting that target is still way better than missing that target and having to strive for the next possible one.
Again, I think we are agreed on this, but may be just looking at it from glass half full vs glass half empty. There's always another new target. I just have a hard time having faith we will hit any targets when we (meaning humanity, not individuals) keep missing all the ones that have come before.
 

DORISPULASKI

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I do hope our government and others go after all 3 of the methane mitigation opportunities I listed. The best thing about it is that methane has a shorter half life in the atmosphere than CO2 and is 25x worse a global warming gas than CO2. If we can add much much less methane, we have an opportunity to make a real difference.

Global Methane Initiative

This gives me a bit of hope.

Another thing: by looking at me, you could not know that my home is 6F cooler in winter than it used to be, and that I have one bedroom with a window shaker AC that only is used when the temperature is heat alert high, that my electric bill is $60 a month on average versus $153.46 for the average bill in CT.

https://www.moving.com/tips/how-muc... $129.49 Connecticut – $153.46 Maine – $96.33

More and more people are taking global warming more seriously.
 
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BlueRidge

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I do hope our government and others go after all 3 of the methane mitigation opportunities I listed. The best thing about it is that methane has a shorter half life in the atmosphere than CO2 and is 25x worse a global warming gas than CO2. If we can add much much less methane, we have an opportunity to make a real difference.

Global Methane Initiative
Is some of this something that can be done by Biden without Congress? It seemed like Trump was always repealing things that Obama had done and that Congress wasn't a factor.

Also is it all federal level, or are the actions states can take?

ETA: just adding this, we tend to think of what Congress might do when we talk about political action, but local, municipal, and state level action is often the most effective. In the DC-Maryland-Virginia area fighting pipelines has been a major focus, and we successfully stopped the Atlantic Coast Pipeline which for a long time looked like a done deal. Here's a bit about 350.org DC and local organizing: https://350.org/take-it-from-dc-local-climate-action-works/

I'll add that most of the groups on climate change I know about are left leaning but there are more moderate groups and even libertarian groups that propose different ways of tackling the problems. I think there is room for more than one political perspective to have an impact.
 
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DORISPULASKI

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Biden can and is doing the drone methane leak search already by executive order. But we should be doing more of it. He is focussing on capped wells, and should be looking at live wells and pipelines. Worse, methane can be captured, compressed, stored, and sold as CNG- it is not like CO2 which is a lot harder to capture and to make money from than methane.

The cow feed thing is a logistics issue- if you underwrite the more expensive cow feed and start more seaweed farms, farmers will use it as it is better for cows. I saw a documentary on this a while back-I think it is relatively new.

Europe has an official landfill methane mining operation.

Unfortunately, we have narrowly focussed on CO2 and almost ignored methane as a measure of global warming. We need to go after both.

Instead, we have gone into natural gas in a big way over the last 20 years without doing much about emissions & leaks. :wall:
 

DORISPULASKI

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In fact a bipartisan bill reinstating methane emissions control was signed by Biden Jun. 30.
 

caseyedwards

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18,216
You still have the fact the oil and gas will be used and any use of those destroys the environment.

Russia has no methane controls at all.

Methane emissions from Russian pipelines surged during the coronavirus pandemic
russia methane rules from www.climatechangenews.com
Mar 4, 2021 — But there are no regulations in place to reduce leaks from natural gas compressors and pneumatic devices into the atmosphere, he said. “Considering global reports and accounts of Russia's performance though, such ...

China also has a lot of fake laws that no one enforces

So their laws are strictly for good international PR. They don’t really have any enforcement
 

Japanfan

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25,305
I think we've passed the tipping point.
I agree. How we have to live and the things we have to deal with will just become the new normal.

For example, we used to go camping in the summer and be able to have campfires. Now there is almost always a campfire ban, at least in the southern part of the province. We retired our RV at just the right time - campfires were always critical to our enjoying camping.

For young people growing up today who go camping, not being able to have a campfire will just become normal.
 

DORISPULASKI

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The original study on methane reduction in cows by adding a small amount of seaweed to their diet was done on dairy cows. It also works on beef cattle, as this March 2021 report of a UC-Davis study shows.
 

Dobre

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14,214
Maybe this belongs here:

This was yesterday.

Extreme conditions worsen on 77,000-acre Bootleg Fire; residents who won’t leave may face arrest​



Here is the update.

Southern Oregon’s Bootleg Fire doubles again, threatening transmission lines, firefighters and local structures​



This fire sounds like it's been impossible to fight. It's now 140,000 acres and zero percent contained, and the area is so dry that dropping water & retardant isn't helping. The fire isn't just spreading via the grass & via the winds but the trees are so dry they're fueling it. Firefighters have had to pull back to safety zones the last two days.

And the county had people refusing to leave:wall:! After giving the warning, they actually did have to go in and arrest people.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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71,417
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6548/1274 A new special issue of Science is focusing on climate change and in particular how costal communities will have to retreat as sea levels rise. The cost to relocate, the impact on communities where the refugees will retreat to and so forth. At least some are advocating for a plan to be in place now rather than chaos when it happens.
 

Dobre

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Update. The fire is up to 201,000 acres. Now the largest in the country. Still 0% contained. It has three fronts (is growing in three directions like a horseshoe), which makes it difficult to fight from the flank. Groups from the Valley have gone down, and yesterday they had split the force into 3 groups to fight specific sections, which seemed to help. But it has doubled in size again. 21 homes have been destroyed and 2,000 more are in danger.

It's a very rural & very pretty area down there. I spent a lot of time there as a kid.
 

BlueRidge

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This is the first comment I've seen on the climate provisions in the new reconciliation package Dems have announced. Evergreen action comments on the inclusion of a clean electricity standard:

An ambitious Clean Electricity Standard that sets America on course for 100% clean electricity by 2035 is the cornerstone of President Biden’s agenda to create millions of jobs in the fight against the climate crisis—and its inclusion in the reconciliation package is a strong indicator that Senate Democrats are harnessing the ambition necessary to meet this moment. The inclusion of a Civilian Climate Corps is also encouraging—offering a bold new program that will put the American people to work with a living wage and pathways to union careers building climate solutions in their own communities.

...Perhaps the single most consequential climate policy proposed in President Biden’s Build Back Better agenda, a federal CES with a target of 80% clean electricity by 2030 and 100% clean electricity by 2035, is the linchpin in Biden’s plan to decarbonize our economy. On its own, a CES can get us halfway to meeting President Biden’s new NDC—but it gets better than that. As we electrify other sectors of the economy like transportation, manufacturing, and buildings, a CES can eliminate even more emissions by ensuring those sectors can be powered by carbon pollution-free electricity. In addition to being a powerful tool for reducing greenhouse gas pollution, a federal CES will create millions of good-paying jobs in the clean energy economy, save working families money on their utility bills, and eliminate deadly air pollution from the power sector.


 

Dobre

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Mom talked to a friend that lives in the Bootleg Fire zone in Klamath County. Awful. Ranchers have been going back into the burned area because their cattle were out to graze in the trees/forested areas. They're finding burned cows still alive, mountain lions also. There's apparently fire both north & south of the town of Bly.

Mom didn't think the ranchers were the people getting arrested so probably riding through areas of their property after the fire has burned its way through. Either that or they have permission. (She thought the people getting arrested were people checking on homes).
 

skateboy

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7,833
Mom talked to a friend that lives in the Bootleg Fire zone in Klamath County. Awful. Ranchers have been going back into the burned area because their cattle were out to graze in the trees/forested areas. They're finding burned cows still alive, mountain lions also. There's apparently fire both north & south of the town of Bly.
How horrible.
 

clairecloutier

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Two stories about how climate change is negatively affecting agriculture.

Canada’s farmers brace for new heat wave as cherries roast in trees

Scorched, parched, and now uninsurable: Winegrowers in Napa
 

genevieve

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Very sobering and easy to understand graphic modeling of how climate change will transform the US

 

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