The Biden-Harris Administration

ballettmaus

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And I mean nationally, not just in WVA. He was all over the Sunday shows yesterday so he is not simply messaging for WVA.
And that is the problem that I see with the media. They should largely ignore him; treat him like I said they should treat Trump. Report on what he's doing but don't invite him anywhere. Portray him as the obstructionist that he is. But, of course, he generates controversy and they want the ratings. If democracy goes down in the US, the MSM will bear responsibility, too.
 

ballettmaus

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I guess at this point I'm more concerned about doing anything that can stop that from happening than thinking forward to who we will be able to blame.
For me, it's not so much about who is going to be to blame but seeing that the media is currently contributing to it. They're sacrificing it all for money and this weird obsession with the need to appear unbiased which more often than not makes them biased towards the other side. I find it frustrating that after four years of Trump, most of them are still making the same mistakes that helped Trump in 2016. They don't seem to have learned or taken any of the advice they may have gotten from journalists or analysts or scholars with experience in autocracy to heart. It makes me feel helpless because I feel like all we can do is watch it happen.
 

BlueRidge

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For me, it's not so much about who is going to be to blame but seeing that the media is currently contributing to it. They're sacrificing it all for money and this weird obsession with the need to appear unbiased which more often than not makes them biased towards the other side. I find it frustrating that after four years of Trump, most of them are still making the same mistakes that helped Trump in 2016. They don't seem to have learned or taken any of the advice they may have gotten from journalists or analysts or scholars with experience in autocracy to heart. It makes me feel helpless because I feel like all we can do is watch it happen.
Indeed. It does seem that all we can do is watch.

I'd like the media to save us but they just keep acting the way they always have. I'm inclined to agree with Max Boot that people just cannot believe that this is really happening here:

[Trump]acts like a preening buffoon with pretensions of grandeur — doltish and delusional in equal measure. Everything about him, from his orange tan and bad combover to his insistence that he is a “very stable genius,” screams: Are you kidding me?

...
Past demagogues have been even weirder....They all could have come straight from the set of Sacha Baron Cohen’s satire “The Dictator” or Charlie Chaplin’s “The Great Dictator.” But the joke is on us. What has made dictators and demagogues so dangerous is their ability to pull vast numbers of people into their personal delusions — to turn their paranoid fantasies and megalomaniacal dreams into a harsh reality for millions.

Trump has the same malign gift. Despite presiding over what was arguably the worst presidency in U.S. history — with 400,000 dead from *********-19 during his term and the economy in ruins — he won more votes in 2020 (74.2 million) than in 2016 (62.9 million). Now, even after having incited a mob attack on the Capitol, Trump enjoys the approval of roughly 80 percent of Republicans. A Reuters-Ipsos poll even found that 53 percent of Republicans believe Trump is the “true president” now.

No one knows how to stop this.

And so it probably won't stop.
 

BlueRidge

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I don't agree entirely. I think there are plenty of people out there who know what steps need to be taken to have a chance at stopping it but no one who matters seems to (want to) ask them.
If they really knew how to stop it, they would be getting people to listen and to act. Clearly they don't know how to do that.
 

caseyedwards

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The most powerful republicans in America hate trump. They really hate him! But they decided not to run against him in 2020. It is cowardice. The worst kind of being a horrible coward chicken with no guts. The bush family, Romney, the mccains, paul ryan, mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Kasich, Hogan, Brown and more! They couldn’t all unite to support a Republican against trump in the 2020 primary? They know America is a two pary system. That there is no chance a third party candidate emerges unless they spend billions like ross perot did.

They all hated Trump and almost all voted for Hillary and Biden- publicly.

Trump was unchallenged in the republicans Primary who would go on to publicly back Biden.

Who cares if trump had the RNC. Lol.

People talk about republicans voting to cancel the primary in 2020. One reason that was because of no real opponent. They wouldn’t have cancelled the primary if mitt Romney was running. Or Jeb Bush or John Kasich or Cindy McCain. Or colin powell.

46% of America voted for mccain/Palin! I mean why shouldn’t trump have got more votes than sarah Palin and the man who picked her
 

DORISPULASKI

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Oddly, we do know what may work to scare/get rid of corrupt autocrats. We have had several recent demonstrations.

What got all the warring parties in Israel to finally form a government just to get rid of Netanyahu?

Why was Putin so scared of Alexei Navalny?

Why did Ukraine ditch Poroshenko for a TV show guy?

In each case, massive corruption was being exposed.

Our media needs to keep exposing the Trump administration's corruption. People hate a scam where they themselves Don't get a piece of the pie.

Another thing is to expose the autocrat as weak and ridiculous. Pro autocrat folks are always trying to cozy up to leaders they think are strong.

Also people do not like pedophiles (Roy Moore), but, sad to say, they are fine with rapists. Do they think rapists are strong?
 

caseyedwards

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When bill Clinton was accused of rape by Willey and Broadrick I said they were lying republicans or fame seekers.
 

caseyedwards

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Why is “do not come” not working at all? Because most all democrats in America think that all undocumented in America need to become citizens ASAP.
 

DORISPULASKI

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Because you can't get anyone to do farm work, wait on table, clean hotel rooms, check groceries, mow lawns, shingle your roof, check your mooring, fix your dock, etc.? And having some 600,000 people die did not improve the situation.

America is short of people, and we are an aging population at that.

We need immigrants ;)
 

MsZem

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And that is the problem that I see with the media. They should largely ignore him; treat him like I said they should treat Trump. Report on what he's doing but don't invite him anywhere. Portray him as the obstructionist that he is. But, of course, he generates controversy and they want the ratings. If democracy goes down in the US, the MSM will bear responsibility, too.
The media's responsibility is to report on the news and make sure the public is well-informed. This includes reporting critically, transparently, and pointing out flaws in Manchin's arguments (or anyone else's) when applicable. It is not the media's job to label politicians obstructionist or to decide that they should be ignored because their newsworthy statements annoy some people. Unlike Trump, Manchin is explaining his views, not inciting to violence.

I highly doubt that Manchin generates much in the way of controversy and ratings, BTW. Most people don't follow politics at that level of resolution (no, FSUers in PI are not a representative sample).
 

ballettmaus

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If they really knew how to stop it, they would be getting people to listen and to act. Clearly they don't know how to do that.
I said they know steps that you can take to have a chance at stopping it not that they know how to stop it. One of those things is learn from history. I'm not under the impression that everyone in leadership positions in government or the MSM has done so. I'm more under the impression that many still believe that it can't happen here and they believe that as soon as we've gone back to adhering to norms and rebuilding the institutions, it's back to business as usual. Just the other day a pundit on MSNBC was full of praise for the two-party system.

The media's responsibility is to report on the news and make sure the public is well-informed. This includes reporting critically, transparently, and pointing out flaws in Manchin's arguments (or anyone else's) when applicable.
And you can do all of that without inviting him to the Sunday shows and give him the attention he craves which was my point and what I said: report on what he's saying but don't interview him.

It is not the media's job to label politicians obstructionist or to decide that they should be ignored because their newsworthy statements annoy some people. Unlike Trump, Manchin is explaining his views, not inciting to violence.
If he only he explained it with substance. Maddow just reported the polling in West Virginia. The For the People Act polls as follows in WV: 79% support overall (compared to 68% Infrastructure and 64% YKW relief), 76% GOP support, 79% Independent, 81% Democrat and 33% are more likely to vote for Manchin if he supported the For the People Act.

He has no reason to be against it other than loving the attention and being hung up on some bipartisanship dream that is not going to happen in the near future.

I highly doubt that Manchin generates much in the way of controversy and ratings, BTW.
He's in the news somewhere constantly. I doubt that they'd do that if it weren't popular.
 

MsZem

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And you can do all of that without inviting him to the Sunday shows and give him the attention he craves which was my point and what I said: report on what he's saying but don't interview him.

If he only he explained it with substance. Maddow just reported the polling in West Virginia. The For the People Act polls as follows in WV: 79% support overall (compared to 68% Infrastructure and 64% YKW relief), 76% GOP support, 79% Independent, 81% Democrat and 33% are more likely to vote for Manchin if he supported the For the People Act.
Great! Bring that up in an interview. If it's a serious poll, ask Manchin why he's at odds with the majority of his constituents (is it a serious poll?)

It is not the media's job to arrange political matters to the convenience of any politician or party by labeling people "obstructionist" or refusing to speak with them. Manchin is saying and doing newsworthy things. Thus, it makes sense to interview him - this allows him to present his views, but it does not mean they should go unchallenged.
 

BlueRidge

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I said they know steps that you can take to have a chance at stopping it not that they know how to stop it. One of those things is learn from history. I'm not under the impression that everyone in leadership positions in government or the MSM has done so. I'm more under the impression that many still believe that it can't happen here and they believe that as soon as we've gone back to adhering to norms and rebuilding the institutions, it's back to business as usual. Just the other day a pundit on MSNBC was full of praise for the two-party system.
The people in a position to do anything are in the Biden administration and the Democratic Party. And I think they know they need to win the 2022 elections.

Do they know how? Does some academic who has studied this stuff know how? Maybe maybe not, people can only do what they think they need to do.

I've been listening to the criticisms of the media for decades and the media keeps being the same. Those who want to implement the steps necessary know that the media as it is, is a given. That has to be taken into account.

The Republican efforts to suppress the vote are going to make it harder to vote in 2022, but they aren't going to make it so people cannot vote. The Democrats have to generate a desire to vote that will make people go the extra mile to overcome the hurdles, and the way to do that is to pass the popular legislation that Biden is proposing. And even if that doesn't happen message on the improved economy, message on the success of vaccination and reopening.

The only possible way to defeat the antidemocratic forces in the Republican Party is to overwhelm them at the polls. Assume the media is going to be an obstacle in that and build that into the campaigns.

Biden has the right idea; I hope he and the Democrats can make it work.
 
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BlueRidge

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Most people don't follow politics at that level of resolution (no, FSUers in PI are not a representative sample).

Even people I know who are pretty informed about politics and motivated don't follow it at the level of FSU PIers. Which makes me wonder, why do folks here follow politics so closely?

Personally I aspire to not following it so closely but US politics has been part of the air I breathe since I was three years old and my father was a paid staffer on JFK's presidential campaign.

I'm interested to hear from others here.
 

MsZem

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Even people I know who are pretty informed about politics and motivated don't follow it at the level of FSU PIers. Which makes me wonder, why do folks here follow politics so closely?

Personally I aspire to not following it so closely but US politics has been part of the air I breathe since I was three years old and my father was a paid staffer on JFK's presidential campaign.

I'm interested to hear from others here.
That's pretty cool :)

I attended middle school/high school in the US, and was there during the 1992 election. After that I continued to follow US politics because it's interesting and though I'm not directly affected by political developments in the US, there are plenty of indirect effects for those of us in other countries.

I have very little knowledge about politics in most other countries, other than Israel obviously. Although Israel is too confusing for anyone except full-time political reporters :lol:
 

BlueRidge

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That's pretty cool :)
Yeah, I have a photograph on my wall of my father speaking to Kennedy. :)
I attended middle school/high school in the US, and was there during the 1992 election. After that I continued to follow US politics because it's interesting and though I'm not directly affected by political developments in the US, there are plenty of indirect effects for those of us in other countries.
I paid almost no attention to the 1992 election! I was involved with the nascent US Green Party then before it had actual candidates and could help destroy the country. :shuffle:
I have very little knowledge about politics in most other countries, other than Israel obviously. Although Israel is too confusing for anyone except full-time political reporters :lol:
I read the posts about Israel and hear a bit from @PRlady, but I'm pretty much just confused... :lol:
 

caseyedwards

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Because you can't get anyone to do farm work, wait on table, clean hotel rooms, check groceries, mow lawns, shingle your roof, check your mooring, fix your dock, etc.? And having some 600,000 people die did not improve the situation.

America is short of people, and we are an aging population at that.

We need immigrants ;)
I read something I found very shocking and went to multiple places to confirm. Most grapes are not picked by hand anymore. It is done by machines. The idea immigration is needed for farming is not true. Machines are the wave of the future and how most farming is done outside of America. So why are American business interests and farm organizations focusing on bringing more people in rather than mechanized farming? There is a lot of thought it is all about customers. Bringing in more consumers. Because if you have a small farmer the government could easily give them more money to mechanize their farms than giving them a migrant worker

So you can take farm workers right off the list of why American needs undocumented migrants.

All the other jobs you mention used to be done by Americans mostly teens
 

MsZem

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I paid almost no attention to the 1992 election! I was involved with the nascent US Green Party then before it had actual candidates and could help destroy the country. :shuffle:
Well, Bill Clinton was interesting. Also, I was living in Oregon and was NOT happy about Ballot Measure 9 - I was young, but old enough to know that it was disgusting. So I was quite invested in seeing it fail.
 

DORISPULASKI

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Before I retired, I really was only interested in my particular political issues: women's equality/ERA, LGBTQ/marriage issues, pro choice, and health care.

After I retired, I wanted to discover why the issues I was interested in kept doing worse and worse since the days of Reagan, and why it was so very, very seldom I could find a candidate to vote for that I could whole-heartedly support. And I got into politics on a local level as part of that quest.

And here we are...
 

clairecloutier

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Why is Manchin doing what he's doing?? Well, for some clues, look behind the curtain and you will find the Koch organization:

Joe Manchin is opposing big parts of Biden's agenda as Koch network presses him

CNBC reviewed an episode of a Koch policy group Americans for Prosperity's video series, along with ads crafted by the organization. The network specifically calls on its grassroots supporters to push Manchin, a conservative Democrat, to be against some of his party's legislative priorities.

Americans for Prosperity launched a website titled West Virginia Values, which calls on people to email Manchin "to be The Voice West Virginia Needs In D.C. — Reject Washington’s Partisan Agenda."

It then lists all of the items Manchin has promised to oppose, including the idea of eliminating the filibuster, the For the People Act and packing the Supreme Court. It then shows everything the group believes Manchin should oppose, including Biden's infrastructure plan and the union-friendly PRO Act.

Americans for Prosperity leaders took part in one of their video series with their West Virginia state director in May where they praised Manchin for voicing his opposition to abolishing the filibuster. The video was reviewed by CNBC after it was posted to the group's Facebook page.


For more background on the Koch involvement against the For the People Act:

Inside the Koch-backed effort to block the election-reform bill
www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/inside-the-koch-backed-effort-to-block-the-largest-election-reform-bill-in-half-a-century?utm_campaign=falcon&utm_social-type=owned&mbid=social_twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_brand=tny&utm_source=twitter

A recording obtained by The New Yorker of a private conference call on January 8th, between a policy adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell and the leaders of several prominent conservative groups—including one run by the Koch brothers’ network—reveals the participants’ worry that the proposed election reforms garner wide support not just from liberals but from conservative voters, too. The speakers on the call expressed alarm at the broad popularity of the bill’s provision calling for more public disclosure about secret political donors. The participants conceded that the bill, which would stem the flow of dark money from such political donors as the billionaire oil magnate Charles Koch, was so popular that it wasn’t worth trying to mount a public-advocacy campaign to shift opinion. Instead, a senior Koch operative said that opponents would be better off ignoring the will of American voters and trying to kill the bill in Congress.
 

SkateSand

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Even people I know who are pretty informed about politics and motivated don't follow it at the level of FSU PIers. Which makes me wonder, why do folks here follow politics so closely?

Personally I aspire to not following it so closely but US politics has been part of the air I breathe since I was three years old and my father was a paid staffer on JFK's presidential campaign.

I'm interested to hear from others here.

When I was in high school and college, I was very interested in politics. However, once I joined the work force and got married, I paid little attention - real life got in the way. And that didn't change until after Trump got elected. I was horrified, and decided this state of affairs needed my attention and $$$. After Biden won, I still follow politics very closely and I am worried about the future of the country if Republicans continue being so obstructionist and autocratic.
 

once_upon

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And plenty do not.

Particularly, farm work is unpopular.
I assume you are discussing with someone I have on ignore. My city is hosting two major events this month. Ones that bring lots of visitors to our cities and hotels/restaurants are begging for help.

Interestingly - the owners and managers are citing three reasons for shortage of employees: some found other higher paying jobs during the year of closures, some are waiting out the $300 extra unemployment benefits (which tells how bad the hourly wage for those jobs are) and a big one - lack of immigrant workers.
 

MacMadame

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Even people I know who are pretty informed about politics and motivated don't follow it at the level of FSU PIers. Which makes me wonder, why do folks here follow politics so closely?
I'm in PI but I don't watch Rachael Maddow or the Sunday news programs or half the stuff that people talk about here.

So why are American business interests and farm organizations focusing on bringing more people in rather than mechanized farming? There is a lot of thought it is all about customers. Bringing in more consumers. Because if you have a small farmer the government could easily give them more money to mechanize their farms than giving them a migrant worker
That's right. The guy in Napa selling $100 bottles of wine is totally bringing in migrant workers to create more consumers! :rolleyes:
 

once_upon

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I'm in PI but I don't watch Rachael Maddow or the Sunday news programs or half the stuff that people talk about here.


That's right. The guy in Napa selling $100 bottles of wine is totally bringing in migrant workers to create more consumers! :rolleyes:
And there are several jobs in the process that needs actual people doing the hard work.
 

caseyedwards

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I'm in PI but I don't watch Rachael Maddow or the Sunday news programs or half the stuff that people talk about here.


That's right. The guy in Napa selling $100 bottles of wine is totally bringing in migrant workers to create more consumers! :rolleyes:
No he is probably not using human labor at all. Most vineyards have been totally mechanized. I am talking about the broader issue there. Why are so many business interest opposed to mechanization and support huge increases in visas and legalization for undocumented?

When a company says they can’t find people and need immigrants they are really saying they want cheap labor and dont want to pay higher wages to a citizen
 
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