The Biden-Harris Administration

olympic

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I understand from reading the news today that Trump actually negotiated the WD in 2019 at Camp David, absent the Afghan Government, and scaled down US involvement the following year.

So, I'm a little blown away by the media hanging this around the neck of Biden. But I guess, I shouldn't be
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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69,293
Only the historians read history, and the historians were screaming against going into Afghanistan 20 years ago.

My heart absolutely breaks for the Afghan women today.
Mostly, because the Afghan men don't seem to care. If they did, the issue wouldn't be there in the first place. The Taliban hasn't had to fire a shot. The Afghan army and police just let them in. :(
 

caseyedwards

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16,933
I understand from reading the news today that Trump actually negotiated the WD in 2019 at Camp David, absent the Afghan Government, and scaled down US involvement the following year.

So, I'm a little blown away by the media hanging this around the neck of Biden. But I guess, I shouldn't be
Biden just said recently this would not happen! Maybe he should have. He knew what Trump did. But he was being defensive. He should have been like because of what Trump did Kabul will fall soon. So now you have tape of biden saying this would not happen while it is making it a big loss.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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I understand from reading the news today that Trump actually negotiated the WD in 2019 at Camp David, absent the Afghan Government, and scaled down US involvement the following year.

So, I'm a little blown away by the media hanging this around the neck of Biden. But I guess, I shouldn't be
Implementing a Trump administration plan. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Would be cutting President Biden more slack if he hadn't made statements like these just over a month ago:


Q Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable?

THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not.

Q Why?

THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable.
Q Mr. President, some Vietnamese veterans see echoes of their experience in this withdrawal in Afghanistan. Do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam, with some people feeling —

THE PRESIDENT: None whatsoever. Zero. What you had is — you had entire brigades breaking through the gates of our embassy — six, if I’m not mistaken.

The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable.
So either President Biden was very badly informed or he was lying. Either one is not a good look.
 

olympic

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10,207
Implementing a Trump administration plan. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Would be cutting President Biden more slack if he hadn't made statements like these just over a month ago:




So either President Biden was very badly informed or he was lying. Either one is not a good look.
Line #1 - Agree. This was a cut-and-run, as well as a stab-in-the-back by an ally

As far as Biden is concerned, I don't think he had a good choice. I prefer to understand the situation in Afghanistan now in light of the course of events stretching back over 4 administrations - Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden. You can actually go back 7 administration to Carter and Reagan after the Soviet invasion in 1979. Carter Administration began the operation of sending arms to rebels. Reagan put it on steroids and literally armed OBL, just to bleed the commies.

Bush invaded to go after those sheltering Al-Qaeda and get OBL. He dropped the ball and invaded Iraq; daddy issues w/ re Saddam Hussein or cheap oil. Who knows. That was a catastrophic decision which all but destroyed any mission in Afghanistan. Obama kept drone and surge operations going at full capacity and declared an end to operations in 2014, which was nearly as foolish. Trump was focused on getting us out at any cost, which gave the Taliban the upper hand. The media worth reading notes that NO ONE in US Government had a plan to invest more deeply in Afghani military and law enforcement structure.

Of course, Biden felt it was time to leave based on the fact that there was no mission left for the U.S. there. He was stuck with bad decisions of 3 or 5 administration. However you want to look at it. There were no good choices and he tried to put a rose on a turd, which didn't work. But I will judge Biden under the circumstances he was left with. He is not perfect and was not going to stand up and say 'we are doomed!'

My greatest issue again is the media does not put anything in context with today's headlines.
 
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rfisher

Let the skating begin
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69,293
Considering that the Afghan army is putting up zero resistance and making no effort to defend themselves, I'd say they are fine with the Talabin being in charge. The corrupt government was happy to take the billions of dollars poured into the country. I feel for the women and girls, but most of the men have no problem with the harsh laws of the Talabin and that's not going to change. This was inevitable starting 50 years ago.

ETA Kabal has fallen without a shot. The "president" took the money and ran.
 
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caseyedwards

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That’s true too! I mean at some point it just has to be said afghans want taliban like people in charge and have since the 1920’s when a modern government first tried to educate girls
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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So let's just add the "Islamic State of Afghanistan" providing the perfect breeding ground for the resurgence of terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda to the heady mix of C19 and Climate change, oh happy days!
Nature might be about to get rid of the parasitic human race more quickly than it expected....
(@allezfred, I'm 🙃 not feeling unhappy, just keeping it real!)
 
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el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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Liking Tom Nichols' take:

Did Biden botch the last few days, not getting our friends out? Sure looks like it. But in the end, he gave Americans what they wanted. Now we're all going to sit around and bitch about how we shouldn't get what we want unless it has no costs and no risks and Dad fixes it all.


Well, this American says at last, finally, and no, Dad isn't going to fix it all. Some other country wants to go in and fix Afghanistan using their citizens, be my guest.

Complaining about exceptionalism here is as reality based as calling Interpol about Yuzu's scores.:rolleyes:

The plight of Afghan women lies solely with Afghan men. A sad situation, but Dad can't fix that either. 🤷‍♀️
 

ballettmaus

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Mostly, because the Afghan men don't seem to care. If they did, the issue wouldn't be there in the first place. The Taliban hasn't had to fire a shot. The Afghan army and police just let them in. :(
This sure is chaos and should not have happened this way. That said, Senator Chris Murphy said Biden had a choice between honoring the agreement Trump negotiated or sending thousands more troops into Afghanistan (which the media would have gone after Biden for as well) and if the Afghan military can't be bothered to defend their country and countrymen why should US troops continue to risk their lives for them?
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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Nice to see more washing of hands. I guess it’s appropriate for the times. :)
 

ballettmaus

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Nice to see more washing of hands. I guess it’s appropriate for the times. :)
Right. Because it's totally unbelieveable that Trump had no clue what he was doing (or did the Taliban's bidding because they knew exactly how to get what they wanted) and those actually were Biden's only options (especially now that we're seeing that the Afghan military and leadership weren't willing to fight at all).

I think the only right answer here is that the US should never have been in Afghanistan (and that they should have started getting their allies out of the country sooner). As far as the rest is concerned, what's happening now is wrong but sending thousands more American troops to Afghanistan would have been wrong as well.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
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I'm not sure what the "right" move would have been.

I heard it said over and over and over again that the US troops/officers say that the Afghanistan army had been given the tools to defend their country. I'm not convinced that we were actually protecting anyone.

I do think it's telling that the Afghan military just let a take over happen without a fight.
 

Judy

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3,419
Liking Tom Nichols' take:

Did Biden botch the last few days, not getting our friends out? Sure looks like it. But in the end, he gave Americans what they wanted. Now we're all going to sit around and bitch about how we shouldn't get what we want unless it has no costs and no risks and Dad fixes it all.


Well, this American says at last, finally, and no, Dad isn't going to fix it all. Some other country wants to go in and fix Afghanistan using their citizens, be my guest.

Complaining about exceptionalism here is as reality based as calling Interpol about Yuzu's scores.:rolleyes:

The plight of Afghan women lies solely with Afghan men. A sad situation, but Dad can't fix that either. 🤷‍♀️
It's hard to forget 911.
 

Judy

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3,419
I'm not sure what the "right" move would have been.

I heard it said over and over and over again that the US troops/officers say that the Afghanistan army had been given the tools to defend their country. I'm not convinced that we were actually protecting anyone.

I do think it's telling that the Afghan military just let a take over happen without a fight.
I am going to ask my retired military friend as her and her husband did separate tours of Afghanistan. Sometimes you have to talk to military who understands vs us. I find you can only get so much from media if you don't understand It in the first place.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
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I am going to ask my retired military friend as her and her husband did separate tours of Afghanistan. Sometimes you have to talk to military who understands vs us. I find you can only get so much from media if you don't understand It in the first place.
I think it depends on their experience. I have several friends who were in Afghanistan.

I seriously don't think there is/was a good outcome.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico, via Russia - to the World!
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How about addressing the nation, Mr President? If that’s not possible, VP Harris will do very well. This can’t go beyond tomorrow early evening without a presidential speech. Johnson and other world leaders of nations that have sent troops and shed blood are addressing their peoples.
 

Choupette

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I feel awful for the interpreters and the others who helped the armies, and who were totally let down by the way the retreat occurred. Why in the world were they not brought to Canada and the US before? Total betrayal. It looks like it's already too late now. One female judge said one or two days ago that if the Talibans took Kabul, she was going to get killed.

I think I may need to take a break from all news at this point... Climate/fires, Afghanistan, Belarus, Putin, American democracy, the ********* and the huge burden of healthcare workers/teachers... And there is nothing I can do about any of those things. This is more depressing than 9/11. I miss the times when the Berlin wall fell and it looked like the world was slowly becoming a better place...

And to think that there were people in the streets yesterday claiming we are in a dictatorship over masks and vaccines... I have no word to describe how absurd they come across! Fortunately, they are a very small group here.

Sorry, just needed to vent somewhere, I guess... Those images from Afghanistan were the last straw for me.
 

Dobre

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Biden Administration Prompts Largest Permanent Increase in Food Stamps​

The jump in benefits, the biggest in the program’s history, comes after a revision of the initiative’s nutrition standards that supporters say will reduce hunger and better reflect how Americans eat.

 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
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2,560
I feel awful for the interpreters and the others who helped the armies, and who were totally let down by the way the retreat occurred. Why in the world were they not brought to Canada and the US before? Total betrayal. It looks like it's already too late now. One female judge said one or two days ago that if the Talibans took Kabul, she was going to get killed.

Whether you think the US should have been there or not, this is the crucial point. Securing the safety of those who had helped them should have been the no. 1 priority of any withdrawal plan. Not doing so is only going to hurt the US in the long run, because why would anyone in any future country the US enters take the risk of helping them when they've seen how little their welfare will be prioritised?
 

Judy

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I think it depends on their experience. I have several friends who were in Afghanistan.

I seriously don't think there is/was a good outcome.
I agree. I am not attacking Biden. For myself it is just horrific watching innocent people dying and the horrific taliban winning. The U.S. is the only country capable of keeping things under control. Allies helped and we lost people too. For me it is heartbreaking especially having a dear friend with three members of her family in hiding there. You can google Roya Shams her story is something else. As she once told me … her country was beautiful before the taliban originally took over.
 

Sparks

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12,805
How about addressing the nation, Mr President? If that’s not possible, VP Harris will do very well. This can’t go beyond tomorrow early evening without a presidential speech. Johnson and other world leaders of nations that have sent troops and shed blood are addressing their peoples.
President Biden will address the Nation today
 

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