Second Democratic Debate

Peaches LaTour

Well-Known Member
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1,927
Wow, both candidates are completely different. Mayor Pete is a centrist and Andrew Yang is much more progressive.

I don't get Yang's thousand-dollar-a-month proposal. That is more $$$ than most part timers make. They could just quit & live off that.

I don't care for Yang.
 

nylynnr

Well-Known Member
Messages
723
I don't get Yang's thousand-dollar-a-month proposal. That is more $$$ than most part timers make. They could just quit & live off that.
An interesting feature of Yang's proposal is every American adult would receive the income, including high net worth people and those earning high salaries. I think undocumented people living in the U.S. are included, but I'm not sure about that.

The impetus behind the proposal is to give some security to people losing jobs to technology, so I don't understand including millionaires, unless it's because establishing income and net worth limits would be too bureaucratic and costly to implement.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,264
For thos of you wondering about Yang's proposal
For political observers of a certain vintage, long-shot presidential candidate Andrew Yang’s proposal to give every American adult $1,000 a month brought back a distinct memory from 1972. That year Democratic presidential nominee George McGovern also proposed writing a $1,000 check to every American — $1,000 a year, however (there’s been a lot of inflation since then).

To put it mildly, it did not go over well. Even though McGovern eventually abandoned the proposal, and even though it was similar to the “negative income tax” idea crafted by famed free-market economist Milton Friedman and briefly considered by Richard Nixon, the plan became a potent symbol of the Democrat’s alleged radicalism, fiscal irresponsibility, and wooly thinking.
There you have it: Milton Friedman, Richard Nixon, and George McGovern wrapped up into one campaign proposal.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayanna.

This last bit, by the way, is a good argument for nominating someone older than Kamala Harris (who turned eight just before the 1972), Andrew Yang (born in 1975) or Eric Swalwell (born in 1980). :shuffle:
 

MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
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29,687
This last bit, by the way, is a good argument for nominating someone older than Kamala Harris (who turned eight just before the 1972), Andrew Yang (born in 1975) or Eric Swalwell (born in 1980). :shuffle:
I don't think it's necessarily a good argument. For one thing, a universal basic income is a hot topic right now and it's not out of the mainstream to argue that a natural outcome of a growing economy is that eventually not everyone has to work full-time.
 

haribobo

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,795
CNN posted a link to a poll today that was taken just after the debate, with previous poll being a month before-
Joe 22 (down from 32), Kamala 17 (up from 8), Warren 15 (up from 7), Bernie 14 (down from 18), Pete 4 (down from 5)
 

ribbon

Well-Known Member
Messages
191
The new President has to bring honour back to the WH. Period.
Making great arguments is good. Being able to think quick on your feet another good thing. Being supremely intelligent is really really a necessary thing this time around. Thinking that winning at all costs is the all important thing and thinking it is fine to stab a great man in the back to get what you want (not for the good of the people)lacks integrity and the essentials of a great leader. Do you really think that if she managed to get elected it will be the dream ending...they kissed and live happily ever after. A president has to deal with allies, has to work as a team(not a team of conspirators) to further the world problems, and to deal with enemies and in between and has to know what fair means and certainly needs to know right from wrong. The huge mess of USA leadership needs to stripped and reformed. Do you really think this is a one body job....or even two. Every person on the stage on both nights - taking away 5 to 10 and maybe adding another one or two is so necessary to flip the country and set it on a course for survival. The new president needs to use and work with all of them for the country's and maybe even the worlds survival. Just how far do you think Harris is capable of sinking to get what she wants or win a case. Would I like her to be proscecuter in a case between Trump and the country - yes...Do I think she has the necessary moral fibre to be a great president.-No. That ship has sailed.
I never said any of that. All I commented on was that Harris is capable of connecting with people even if she’s not seen as having a warm personality. Her poll numbers going up show that. Many of my millennial friends have her in the top tier and so do I. But I don’t think any of us feel there’s a “sure thing” candidate right now or one without flaws. And I never, ever think there will be a dream ending. That is naive. I didn’t even think that with Obama, even though I found him more inspiring than any of the candidates today. What I do know, however, is I am voting for the democrat nominee and will do so gladly. And compared to Trump, all have a better moral standing including Harris.
 
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canbelto

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2,128
I really don;t think of Joe Biden as a "great man." I think he;s a decent enough man but he hasn't done enough to be considered "great."
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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59,318
There is no perfect candidate. They are all human. But, every candidate, even if some independent decides to run, is better than the current occupant of the WH. And, lest anyone forget, flipping the Senate is equally as important. Apart from the SCOTUS nominations, maybe more so. A Democratic House and Senate would mean a good bye to Trump even if he won the election. I only hope all of the senators running for POTUS keep that in mind.
 

olympic

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Messages
9,188
^This. There is no perfect candidate. No unicorn. But, every single person mentioned above would be an improvement over Agent Orange. We can debate to our heart's content, disagree and throw a fit, but it's extremely important that everyone pivots and gets behind the candidate next year.
 

Vagabond

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13,264
Kamala Harris backtracks on eliminating private health insurance
“I am a proponent of Medicare for All,” Harris said in the television interview. “Private insurance will exist for supplemental coverage.”

Harris is a co-sponsor of a bill introduced by Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, the other candidate in Thursday’s debate who raised his hand to indicate support for eliminating private insurance. The bill would essentially eliminate private insurance coverage, but people could purchase supplemental coverage for services not covered by the government plan, namely cosmetic surgery.
I have to say that NBC's "raise your hand" schtick didn't play out very well. It was difficult to take in which of the ten candidates in each panel supported one position or another, and I can see how a candidate could be confused by the wording of a particular question.

Still, this particular article doesn't get the exact scope of the proposed supplemental coverage right: It would actually be for nonmedically necessary procedures, such as cosmetic surgery, as explained here.

Cue discussion as to whether doctors should be doing "nonmedically necessary procedures" in the first place and whether insurers should be paying for them.

:watch:
 

attyfan

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8,379
who do you know that could live off $1000 a month?
An extra $1000 a month could mean a great deal to a lot of low income people ...I know of one senior citizen, with custody of two minor grandchildren, who is currently facing homelessness because she can't afford the full amount of her recently increased rent. Yang's proposed extra money would have allowed her to keep her place. (We have her connected to social workers to help her find a place she can afford ... please pray that she gets one)
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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11,569

10.7% of housholds in the US earn less than $15,000. For any of those families, $1,000 a month per adult would make a huge difference.
 

clairecloutier

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9,569
I think an extra $1000 a month would make a big difference to a lot of Americans, including middle-class Americans. But it’s definitely not enough for hardly anyone to live on (unless they have no rent or mortgage).
 

skatemomaz

Resist
Messages
5,412
An extra $1000 a month could mean a great deal to a lot of low income people ...I know of one senior citizen, with custody of two minor grandchildren, who is currently facing homelessness because she can't afford the full amount of her recently increased rent. Yang's proposed extra money would have allowed her to keep her place. (We have her connected to social workers to help her find a place she can afford ... please pray that she gets one)
Of course an extra $1000 a month would help a lot of people. I was responding to the OP who made the statement the someone working part time could quit their job and live off $1000 per month. I think that’s an unrealistic premise.
 

Reuven

Official FSU Alte Kacher
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15,446
General word of warning: Remember that there are sh!t stirrers out there posting false, fake, or inflated stories about candidates, and bots are more than happy to amplify those stories to sow discord amongst Democrats. Be sure of your sources.
^This. There is no perfect candidate. No unicorn. But, every single person mentioned above would be an improvement over Agent Orange. We can debate to our heart's content, disagree and throw a fit, but it's extremely important that everyone pivots and gets behind the candidate next year.
We cannot allow purity to be the enemy of good, especially this time. I will be voting for whomever wins the nomination, and I will be voting straight Democratic all the way down the ballot.
 

Japanfan

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21,761
I think an extra $1000 a month would make a big difference to a lot of Americans, including middle-class Americans. But it’s definitely not enough for hardly anyone to live on (unless they have no rent or mortgage).
If a person was paying $500.00 a month in rent and relying heavily on food banks/free stuff, it might be doable. One would have $125.00 per week in spending money. But that sounds really rough - $1500 a month is more doable.
 

skatemomaz

Resist
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5,412
If a person was paying $500.00 a month in rent and relying heavily on food banks/free stuff, it might be doable. One would have $125.00 per week in spending money. But that sounds really rough - $1500 a month is more doable.
but that's assuming no utilities, no other expenses and that the $1000 per month is not taxed. I agree, really rough.
 

clairecloutier

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9,569
If a person was paying $500.00 a month in rent and relying heavily on food banks/free stuff, it might be doable. One would have $125.00 per week in spending money. But that sounds really rough - $1500 a month is more doable.
Yes. Just for reference, the USDA keeps charts of food prices, and their latest chart calculates the minimum monthly cost of groceries for a single adult at around $160 a month. And as @skatemomaz points out, utilities would certainly add at least probably $100. And this is not getting into taxes and insurance and transportation and any other expenses, etc. $500 would also be quite a low rent in many areas of the U.S. Suffice to say, $1000 is not going to be a livable income for most people. Although I am not sure if Yang is actually suggesting it would be? I will admit I have not looked at his platform yet.
 

Japanfan

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21,761
Yes. Just for reference, the USDA keeps charts of food prices, and their latest chart calculates the minimum monthly cost of groceries for a single adult at around $160 a month.
That's why I said 'relying heavily on food banks'. And I mean heavily. I don't see how a single person could get buy on $160.00 a month for groceries, certainly not where I live. Maybe if one was okay with a diet largely consisting of rice and beans.

And as @skatemomaz points out, utilities would certainly add at least probably $100. And this is not getting into taxes and insurance and transportation and any other expenses, etc. $500 would also be quite a low rent in many areas of the U.S. Suffice to say, $1000 is not going to be a livable income for most people. Although I am not sure if Yang is actually suggesting it would be? I will admit I have not looked at his platform yet.
I was basing my view on a rent of $500 a month that included utilities - probably in subsidized housing (would have to be, in my city) - and a transit pass provided by the government - as well as use of food banks and free meals. No taxes owed - but a GST rebate of about $500. per year - and no insurance payments needed, given that one has nothing that needs to be insured.

It could be done, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to/couldn't do it. And would guess that anyone trying to live on so little would find a way to supplement their income, even if they had to beg on the street.
 
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DFJ

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5,267
I should know the answer to this but I don't. Can someone please explain to me what busing is?
 

Vagabond

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I should know the answer to this but I don't. Can someone please explain to me what busing is?
In common American usage, "busing" is transporting school children by bus from the neighborhood in which they live and a school in another neighborhood for the purpose of achieving racial integration.

It was most commonly instituted by court order or by a directive from the U.S. Department of Education, but some districts, such as Berkeley, Calif., instituted it voluntarily.
 

DFJ

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5,267
Thanks guys. Do Americans see that as a good thing? It seemed to have caused quite a stir in the debate unless I missed something.
 

Vagabond

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Thanks guys. Do Americans see that as a good thing? It seemed to have caused quite a stir in the debate unless I missed something.
I would not presume to speak for Americans as a whole on this subject, and I am not sure that you would be able to find any recent opinion polls on this matter. I can, however, say that school districts have long looked to alternatives to busing when possible.

I do have some opinions based on my personal experiences in going to school in the same district and at the same time as Kamala Harris, but I don't want to post them here. Maybe if you ask nicely in a PM. ;)
 

Peaches LaTour

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Thanks guys. Do Americans see that as a good thing? It seemed to have caused quite a stir in the debate unless I missed something.
Busing was proposed in our town when I was in high school. It was vehemently opposed by blacks & whites.

It would have required me to bus- travel a total of 2 hrs (longer in winter months when snow was deep & roads were bad) every school day rather than the total 30 minute normal bus-travel trip to the school in my district.

I lived in "the sticks" and the city school kids who would have been bused to my school, did not want any part of that any more than those of us I the sticks wanted any part of a city school.

Ultimately, the exhorbant cost of busing threw the entire proposal under the bus, so to speak.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
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48,479
Does busing even exist any more?

Busing to me is something that happened in the 1970s. I was bused for a time and attended a school that 98% black. All of the white kids were bused in. The reason there were so few of us is that white families moved out of city to the suburbs as soon as the Supreme Court ruling in Swann v. Charlotte-Mecklenburg Board of Education was handed down. It was a terrible school and my parents joined the white flight movement to get me out of there.

White Americans didn't consider it a good thing at all. But for many black Americans, it was a chance to go to better quality schools.

This is a subject that is going to dog Joe Biden. He foolishly started talking about how well he got along with segregationists in Congress back in the day, which reminded everyone of his work on the Biden-Roth amendment. It failed, but he made a lot of comments trying to get it passed that will haunt him now.
 

MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
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29,687
When I think of busing, I think of this:


(Though I have no idea if she was bussed to school or her parents drove her.)
 

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