School shooting at Santa Fe High School, Texas

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,248
Oh an attempt to shut down debate altogether. :yawn: I believe my points are valid, care to share yours? Or just too smug and self important to make an effort?
My point is that your strawman arguments, ad hominem attacks and false equivalence are tiresome. I've already made my points in this and other threads about guns, gun violence and what should be done about it and feel no need to repeat them.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
And your solution is what? A complete ban or heavy restrictions?
Exactly. Yes I know it is unrealistic, but that seriously is the solution to the problem.

In health and safety if you are looking at measures to mitigate risk management, your highest control is elimination. That is get rid of the hazard. People are the lowest form of control which are totally dependent on individual behaviour. Don't allow people to have the guns and then you eliminate that particular risk to people's safety.
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,274
You're right I neither know nor give a shit. :) But what matters isn't YOU or your background, its providing a cogent counter response to my arguments. You weren't able to come up with any and now you're butt hurt. Too bad, gun control advocacy deserves someone stronger than this. I do respect the overall intentions of the movement--but disarming perfectly responsible citizens is not the acceptable approach IMO.

Well I was all for your suggestion to disallow guns for people on SSRI’s but I see nothing being done on this front - or really any other at all from the legislators.

I’m all for the personal responsibility idea of holding parents legally responsible. Well see if that goes anywhere either.
 

jeffisjeff

Well-Known Member
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16,675
You're right I neither know nor give a shit. :) But what matters isn't YOU or your background, its providing a cogent counter response to my arguments.

Sorry, but since we (well, you) are so insistent about pointing out the flaws in other people's arguments, can we stop for a moment and assess your own logic? First, you asked a specific poster "Tell me: have you ever known (or met..) anyone from an inner city neighborhood?" and then proceeded to say "If you don't face violent crime and gang activity in your own community then LUCKY YOU." But now you claim not to care* and that a certain poster's background doesn't matter. But still you feel capable of judging the logic of other people's arguments? :eek:

*Actually, you claim not to give a sh*t, while at the same time criticizing other posters for the use of "childish profanity." :rofl:
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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17,722
I appreciate that you can address this argument intelligently and without ad hominem unlike others on here. Still though, if it can save one life isn't it worth instituting on a more widespread basis? It seems that people either want a perfect solution or no solution.

Unfortunately, so far, I'm not aware of any lives that were saved. If we consider the reports of guns found by third parties, it has only endagered lives.

And as another poster pointed out, it's not just schools. How are we going to address that? Do we really want to live in a society where armed guards have to walk around at festivals, malls, movie theaters, schools, basically every public place? And even if the number of armed guards were increased, there is still the problem that no one can fire into a panicking crowd. To me, it does not look like the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

That said, I know that it's near impossible to repeal the 2nd amendment. But parental responsibility sounds like it's worth a try, background checks, of course, and I think that maybe there should be restrictions as to the kind of guns an "ordinary citizen" can own and maybe even where they keep them. (E.g. If a person is a sports shooter, do they really need to keep their guns at home or would a safe locker at the club where they shoot be sufficient? Of course, that compound would then have to heavily guarded, so it might be better if they kept the guns at home. I don't know).
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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71,417
Perspective from the responsible gun owners: 1. they don't go out and shoot people. 2. they understand gun safety and teach it to their children. 3. They do keep guns in gun safes, 4. They don't have issues with background checks. 5. Don't have issues with personal responsibility. What they fear are open ended statements that say ban the 2nd Amendment. What the NRA does is send publications that state that Candidate X is suggesting a ban of the 2nd Amendment so don't vote for him. Now, like many voters on many issues, most do not actually do their homework on a candidate and simple take what they see on TV, read on the internet or hear from their friend as gospel. There are those entities that truly do fear that the government, be it state or federal, will show up at their door and confiscate all weaponry. I suspect that's a small number. But, the gun lobby, supported by the manufacturers and retailers, promote hysteria in order to boost sales.

There is much misinformation on all sides. The issue is voting in candidates that do not take lobby money (who is that rare creature??), and is willing to listen and vote in a reasonable manner. But, every person who demands a revocation of the 2nd Amendment feeds right into the hands of the gun lobby. You're doing the work for them and I'm sure they thank you very much.
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,274
There is much misinformation on all sides. The issue is voting in candidates that do not take lobby money (who is that rare creature??), and is willing to listen and vote in a reasonable manner. But, every person who demands a revocation of the 2nd Amendment feeds right into the hands of the gun lobby. You're doing the work for them and I'm sure they thank you very much.

Well some of those people aren't even Americans.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,128
Perspective from the responsible gun owners: 1. they don't go out and shoot people. 2. they understand gun safety and teach it to their children. 3. They do keep guns in gun safes, 4. They don't have issues with background checks. 5. Don't have issues with personal responsibility. What they fear are open ended statements that say ban the 2nd Amendment. What the NRA does is send publications that state that Candidate X is suggesting a ban of the 2nd Amendment so don't vote for him. Now, like many voters on many issues, most do not actually do their homework on a candidate and simple take what they see on TV, read on the internet or hear from their friend as gospel. There are those entities that truly do fear that the government, be it state or federal, will show up at their door and confiscate all weaponry. I suspect that's a small number. But, the gun lobby, supported by the manufacturers and retailers, promote hysteria in order to boost sales.

There is much misinformation on all sides. The issue is voting in candidates that do not take lobby money (who is that rare creature??), and is willing to listen and vote in a reasonable manner. But, every person who demands a revocation of the 2nd Amendment feeds right into the hands of the gun lobby. You're doing the work for them and I'm sure they thank you very much.
Very good post and makes total sense. Maybe the ultimate conspiracy is that mass shootings are part of larger plan to actually protect gun rights. Because they know that the hysteria it brings from the so-called "under threat" NRA is only going to make people react more strongly to feeling their rights are under attack.

I read an article the other day which talked about the more loudly the left talk on about things that it actually galvanises the conservative right to action. This falls into that kind of thinking.

The gun lobby treats the issue as absolute black and white. Any attack on gun rights is a total attack on the 2nd amendment. So the NRA won't look at the shades of grey because they keep saying it undermines the 2nd amendment.

The latest one I saw was the Lt Governor saying that guns are not the problem - abortions and video games are. Ridiculous.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
71,417
Very good post and makes total sense. Maybe the ultimate conspiracy is that mass shootings are part of larger plan to actually protect gun rights. Because they know that the hysteria it brings from the so-called "under threat" NRA is only going to make people react more strongly to feeling their rights are under attack.

I read an article the other day which talked about the more loudly the left talk on about things that it actually galvanises the conservative right to action. This falls into that kind of thinking.

The gun lobby treats the issue as absolute black and white. Any attack on gun rights is a total attack on the 2nd amendment. So the NRA won't look at the shades of grey because they keep saying it undermines the 2nd amendment.

The latest one I saw was the Lt Governor saying that guns are not the problem - abortions and video games are. Ridiculous.
Money talks
 

Dr.Siouxs

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,829
Sorry, but since we (well, you) are so insistent about pointing out the flaws in other people's arguments, can we stop for a moment and assess your own logic? First, you asked a specific poster "Tell me: have you ever known (or met..) anyone from an inner city neighborhood?" and then proceeded to say "If you don't face violent crime and gang activity in your own community then LUCKY YOU." But now you claim not to care* and that a certain poster's background doesn't matter. But still you feel capable of judging the logic of other people's arguments? :eek:

*Actually, you claim not to give a sh*t, while at the same time criticizing other posters for the use of "childish profanity." :rofl:

:yawn: So, any insight on the actual topic at hand? The point is that gun grabbers forget that guns are a necessity to those living in crime infested areas. Do you have a problem with THAT statement?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,128
:yawn: So, any insight on the actual topic at hand? The point is that gun grabbers forget that guns are a necessity to those living in crime infested areas. Do you have a problem with THAT statement?
Hmmm show us the stats that demonstrate that they are a necessity.
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
23,920
:yawn: So, any insight on the actual topic at hand? The point is that gun grabbers forget that guns are a necessity to those living in crime infested areas. Do you have a problem with THAT statement?
I believe your statement should read "some people believe guns are a necessity" not the overriding statement that implies one cannot live in a crime infested area without guns. Because I'm pretty sure one can live in crime infested neighborhoods without a gun.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,006
I originally put this in the Florida school shooting thread. I should have put it in the more current school shooting thread. If that isn't a pitiful comment to have to make!

"Where to put something about concealed carry? So, a guy accidentally shot himself in the foot or leg or something in the restroom at a local Homegoods store. It's almost funny and "see what happens when people are allowed to carry guns around everywhere", but he could have shot a kid in the next stall or urinal or wherever."

And then edited to add - (the headlines say shot himself in groin, but that is not mentioned in ANY of the text of the articles I see) -
"The Xenia man in his 60s who shot himself while in the restroom at the Austin Landing HomeGoods store was using a holster not regulated for the gun he was carrying, a spokeswoman with Austin Landing said.
The holster was filled with some type of paper to make the gun fit, the spokeswoman, Cheryl Dillin, told News Center 7’s Malik Perkins on Tuesday.
The man, who is expected to be OK, did not break any laws by carrying the gun into the store, she said. Ohio’s CCW laws allow anyone with a permit to carry into a store unless there is a posting in the store prohibiting weapons be brought inside -- concealed or not."
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
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36,051

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