Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
812
I wonder how many nationals will know be scoping at Russias Junior nationals for talent?

I don’t know how I feel about that because it is in a lot of ways taking away the work a nation did development wise.

Although I am glad the girls are getting opportunities.

I do think the Japanese and Koreans are in a good place with development.
Well I think Anna F and Liza B both of the Sergey Davydov camp are missing Junior Nationals which might make them eligible for a transfer next season. I think Liza is 14 and Anna is 16 and they need to transfer ASAP. Nastya in some ways waited too long at 18 almost 19 to transfer. The Russian girls and ladies are so deep in talent that really good skaters get buried and never have a chance as a senior.

Yes the Russian figure skating Federation spends a lot of money on these kids that transfer and they are all trained by Russian coaches. There is a dilemma for the fed but it's better than some of these girls are getting chances elsewhere than retiring at 18 or 19. Nastya was very close to the end and now she has a future. Maria T too. Nugumanova is now near the end and she's on the Russian national team as a reserve.

None of these girls I named can beat or even come close to KV Sasha Anna or Liza T so why not let them go? It's not like they're going to come back to haunt the Russian Federation.
 

Arch-

Active Member
Messages
60
I will propose a compromise. From what I can see the most allocations a County can earn to any individual event in a sport to the Olympics is 4.

Traditionally it is rare for a federation to have such dominance and depth to warrant a 4th singles/pair to a world's or Olympics (except Russian pairs of course...lol).

So i propose keeping the current formulas for determining allocations from prior year's Worlds. Keep test skate to confirm added spots.

To earn a 4th: Three skaters/teams of the same Fed must have combined placement less than or equal to 9.

My thinking is that a sweep shouldn't be required to prove depth and dominance so for example 2+3+4=9

This would be a long term solution 20+ years from now that also is relevant today.

I know this might not seem fair bc it ignores Jrs turning Sr, but like I said, there needs to be continuous depth and domination that country needs to prove year by year including the year prior to those Jrs turning Sr. As we all know, there can't be any assumptions in a figure skater from Jr to Sr.

Thoughts?
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,574
I will propose a compromise. From what I can see the most allocations a County can earn to any individual event in a sport to the Olympics is 4.

Traditionally it is rare for a federation to have such dominance and depth to warrant a 4th singles/pair to a world's or Olympics (except Russian pairs of course...lol).

So i propose keeping the current formulas for determining allocations from prior year's Worlds. Keep test skate to confirm added spots.

To earn a 4th: Three skaters/teams of the same Fed must have combined placement less than or equal to 9.

My thinking is that a sweep shouldn't be required to prove depth and dominance so for example 2+3+4=9

This would be a long term solution 20+ years from now that also is relevant today.

I know this might not seem fair bc it ignores Jrs turning Sr, but like I said, there needs to be continuous depth and domination that country needs to prove year by year including the year prior to those Jrs turning Sr. As we all know, there can't be any assumptions in a figure skater from Jr to Sr.

Thoughts?
I could be okay with this idea. It would be really rare for a country to manage this feat.
 

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
511
I personally just like the idea that world medalists always get to control their own destiny and have another shot the next year regardless of their country without their country needing to select them. I feel like they kind of earn it. Maybe just change it to 2 additional spots per country max plus the three medalists from the year before.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,318
Well I think Anna F and Liza B both of the Sergey Davydov camp are missing Junior Nationals which might make them eligible for a transfer next season. I think Liza is 14 and Anna is 16 and they need to transfer ASAP. Nastya in some ways waited too long at 18 almost 19 to transfer. The Russian girls and ladies are so deep in talent that really good skaters get buried and never have a chance as a senior.

Yes the Russian figure skating Federation spends a lot of money on these kids that transfer and they are all trained by Russian coaches. There is a dilemma for the fed but it's better than some of these girls are getting chances elsewhere than retiring at 18 or 19. Nastya was very close to the end and now she has a future. Maria T too. Nugumanova is now near the end and she's on the Russian national team as a reserve.

None of these girls I named can beat or even come close to KV Sasha Anna or Liza T so why not let them go? It's not like they're going to come back to haunt the Russian Federation.
Right now the girls won’t challenge but what happens if countries start scouting early? Then put the girl with a very good coach.

This being said I do think part of Russia’s dominance is the coaching especially with pairs.
 

soogar

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,080
Right now the girls won’t challenge but what happens if countries start scouting early? Then put the girl with a very good coach.

This being said I do think part of Russia’s dominance is the coaching especially with pairs.
All these girls who switch really aren't becoming "top" skaters. It seems the Polish federation paid a lot of money for Kurkova to train with Brian Orser and now she is in Italy. I honestly don't even consider her a Russian skater because when you watch her skate, her skating not at all like Eteri's skaters. She has her own style and enough years under foreign training that she doesn't really have an advantage over other European skaters other than innate talent. The Russians are doing well because they are not constrained with resource issues like ice time, coaching, and off ice training. A western skater has to pay for everything or maybe they are lucky like Kurkova to have a generous federation sponsor her. If she does become a gold medalist, it's not going to be due to the Russian system. The same with the other girls; they fall off the radar when they represent another country.

Liza could switch but I'm sure she doesn't want to leave her training system or the funding or even the show opportunities that Russia offers. The skaters have a lot of professional opportunities there. Liza isn't going to have the same fan support if she skated for another country.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
14,463
Didn’t everyone know this would happen? I mean it was obvious when the Russian explosion happened girls would move to other countries.
I am sure there is a fine point. I am missing here. But does it say that the spots. Are to be equally distributed amongst the countries? anywhere that they
Looking at all these Russian exports, I don't understand why so many people still insist on per country rules. People say they don't want the Olympics / Worlds to be another Russian Nationals. But then with so many skaters exporting, Olympics / Worlds can already be like Russian Nationals even with per country rules.

In a very extreme hypothetical, let's assume that at a pre-Olympic Worlds, Russia and 9 other countries with skaters imported from Russia have skaters placed as follows: (1+12); (2+11); 3; 4; 5; 6; 7; 8; 9; 10. That alone takes up 22 spots. Or if the medalists and rest of the top ten were each a single entry from different countries, then that's 23 spots. [so many other variations] So what Olympic spirit is there if something like this is allowed to happen?!

What sort of Olympic spirit says Tuktamysheva as the 4th Russian woman (and by all means top 5 skater in the world today) can't compete, but Gubanova as a Russian skating for Georgia can?!
Easy Peasy! When Russia has more than 4....they give the skaters to the US. Works for me :)
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
14,463
I personally just like the idea that world medalists always get to control their own destiny and have another shot the next year regardless of their country without their country needing to select them. I feel like they kind of earn it. Maybe just change it to 2 additional spots per country max plus the three medalists from the year before.
Sounds great in theory...........much can happen in a year. We are talking about Russia. Right? Oh I am sure they would right away allow their skaters to control their own destiny. (Now, obviously, a case can be made that they do control their destiny by how they skate.)

For OLYS, I could see a system that has one athlete per country, and then everyone above a certain number of points.

If they call me, I will suggest it.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,318
I am sure there is a fine point. I am missing here. But does it say that the spots. Are to be equally distributed amongst the countries? anywhere that they

Easy Peasy! When Russia has more than 4....they give the skaters to the US. Works for me :)
There is a long history of Russian girls skating for former USSR republics.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,318
All these girls who switch really aren't becoming "top" skaters. It seems the Polish federation paid a lot of money for Kurkova to train with Brian Orser and now she is in Italy. I honestly don't even consider her a Russian skater because when you watch her skate, her skating not at all like Eteri's skaters. She has her own style and enough years under foreign training that she doesn't really have an advantage over other European skaters other than innate talent. The Russians are doing well because they are not constrained with resource issues like ice time, coaching, and off ice training. A western skater has to pay for everything or maybe they are lucky like Kurkova to have a generous federation sponsor her. If she does become a gold medalist, it's not going to be due to the Russian system. The same with the other girls; they fall off the radar when they represent another country.

Liza could switch but I'm sure she doesn't want to leave her training system or the funding or even the show opportunities that Russia offers. The skaters have a lot of professional opportunities there. Liza isn't going to have the same fan support if she skated for another country.
Well she never trained with Eteri it seems but she made it all the way to the Junior level in Russia so I wouldn’t say they had nothing to do with her.

I am glad they are getting opportunities to compete and yes if you can compete for Russia obviously that has the best perks lol 😆
 

Arch-

Active Member
Messages
60
I personally just like the idea that world medalists always get to control their own destiny and have another shot the next year regardless of their country without their country needing to select them. I feel like they kind of earn it. Maybe just change it to 2 additional spots per country max plus the three medalists from the year before.
Figure skating only has so many total spots to allocate to World's yearly. More importantly its the same to the Olympics, where its not the ISU, but the IOC's decision on the amount of athletes a total governance federation can send. So to automatically add 3 spots, they would have to take 3 spots away to do so. Too many hypotheticals could happen where figure skating doesnt get to send their max amount of athletes and that is much more less fair to the athletes in general imo.

What happens if a prior year medalist retires like Osmond or gets injured like Lil Bit...or their level drops? How would they reallocate those spots? Could they reallocate those spots since they are automatic bids? Since they are not nominated by a country's federation they can't represent them. So would they skate under a general ISU or IOC flag? Would a skater even want to do that?
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,106
I personally just like the idea that world medalists always get to control their own destiny and have another shot the next year regardless of their country without their country needing to select them. I feel like they kind of earn it. Maybe just change it to 2 additional spots per country max plus the three medalists from the year before.
To take a few steps forward even, how about:

Previous season's world medalists, and current season's overall Challenger winner, GPF winner, Euros winner, 4CCs winner, WS leader and total points SB leader get an auto pass to Worlds regardless of the countries they represent (a possible 9 extra entrants if no duplicates) and these entries do not take away from the spots earned by the countries at Worlds the previous year. This system will discourage the Michelle Kwans from skipping fall internationals, GPs and 4CCs.
 

Tobbe

Well-Known Member
Messages
183
Junior nationals short was a drama. A lots at stake here for some skaters. Will they get National Team selection next year? Will they get GP spots? Many of them turn senior next year, will they be left behind or enter the big guns?

Only two falls, the rest of the 16 girls were about clean. Anything can happen in the free program tomorrow.
Just an observation, all these 18 girls had serious difficult programs. If they weren't going for the 3A+3T or 3Lz+3Lo, all had 3Lz+3T combos - most of them backloaded. You don't see that in any other country, or at 4CC or Europeans or Worlds or Olympics.
 
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love_skate2011

Banned Member
Messages
3,608
Muravieva, Samodelkina, Petrosyan need a better scores and WS to secure a GP assignment

Im surprised they didn't underscore Akatieva, it would have been beneficial for Muravieva-Samodelkina-Petrosyan podium
as they will transition to seniors soon.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
812
Muravieva, Samodelkina, Petrosyan need a better scores and WS to secure a GP assignment

Im surprised they didn't underscore Akatieva, it would have been beneficial for Muravieva-Samodelkina-Petrosyan podium
as they will transition to seniors soon.
Are there enough GPS to go around next season or even Challengers for that matter when you have these three girls joining 7 or 8 Elites?
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
8,629
I think of the likely Jr Worlds entries, Ugozhaev is fairly young (6/06) and has not competed internationally much, so he will likely do at least one more JGP season. Yablokov (9/03) and Lutfullin (3/04) should move to senior GP.

For the women, Akatieva (7/07) is too young for seniors next season so will be back on JGP. I think Samodelkina (2/07) and Muravieva (8/06) will move to seniors.

It is very hard to know which if any of Shcherb, Trusova, Valieva, Tukt, Kostornaia are likely to move on and free up space for Samodelkina and Muravieva. Curious to see whether Petrosian (16th highest SB) also moves up.

Of the men, will Samarin, Aliev, and Kolyada continue?
 

love_skate2011

Banned Member
Messages
3,608
I think of the likely Jr Worlds entries, Ugozhaev is fairly young (6/06) and has not competed internationally much, so he will likely do at least one more JGP season. Yablokov (9/03) and Lutfullin (3/04) should move to senior GP.

For the women, Akatieva (7/07) is too young for seniors next season so will be back on JGP. I think Samodelkina (2/07) and Muravieva (8/06) will move to seniors.

It is very hard to know which if any of Shcherb, Trusova, Valieva, Tukt, Kostornaia are likely to move on and free up space for Samodelkina and Muravieva. Curious to see whether Petrosian (16th highest SB) also moves up.

Of the men, will Samarin, Aliev, and Kolyada continue?
You forgot Sinitsyna ? I dont think she will get assignments though
and there are the filler girls Kromykh and Usacheva
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,505
The Olympic team has finally been named and it's as expected. Sad for Elizaveta, but happy for the other 3 who definitely earned their spots. Liza and Maya are the named alternates.
Thank you. I've been waiting for this. No surprises. I did think that Semenenko had a shot, but the RUS Fed. made the right choice.

Due to YKW and the lackadaisical attitude towards masks / crap vaccine in RUS, the alternates better be ready more than other countries.
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
Messages
4,777
I don’t understand why Russia didn’t name 3 alternates in each discipline. Particularly in ladies where all 3 skate in the same camp, that’s a nonsensical risk to take.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,505
I don’t understand why Russia didn’t name 3 alternates in each discipline. Particularly in ladies where all 3 skate in the same camp, that’s a nonsensical risk to take.
...and I think it would been Kostornaya. Right? Per my earlier post, YKW is making the alternates all the more important, so why not fill each spot. Maybe, the Fed is purposely snubbing her. IDK
 

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