Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

Cherub721

YEAH!
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I'd make a rule that if a country has 3 skaters at Worlds and they all make top 5, they can get a 4th spot. This year that would be Russian ladies and pairs and Japanese men. It's incredibly difficult to do and it would be taking away 1 spot at most from a smaller fed (since only one country could mathematically have 3 in the top 5) so I feel like that's fair. If it's an Olympic spot make them go to Nebelhorn to earn the 4th spot to prove the depth is there.
 

hanca

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Really? I thought Elens threw in the towel shortly after the 2014 Winter Olympics. Dance athletes can go on and on and anyway we cut it or slice it she stopped at such a young age and she was really good.
She did not. She tried to skate three more seasons with Zhiganshin, Sinitsina’s previous partner. They even competed at GPF, Europeans and worlds in their first season. Then Zhiganshin retired, after they missed on third place at the nationals with only 0.17 of points and therefore missed Europeans and worlds.

Then she tried to skate with Shibnev, but that was a waste of time. The guy could not skate to save his life! The she couldn’t find anyone better so she retired too.
 

Karen-W

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13,423
I am not sure how to go about it. But do you really think in this case Russia having five GPF spots is due to them being a host country?
I think it’s pretty clear that the Russians have the top six heck maybe even top 7 women in the world.

And I think also more Than 3 top pairs teams. At time’s Japan deserved tons of men’s spots.

We can complain about Russian women not having longevity let’s blame the age rule when in a reality a huge part of the issue is the difficulty to get to the Olympics to begin with
I don't think that Russian women having 3 spots in 4 of the GPs and starting out with 2 spots in the other 2 is particularly beneficial to the development of the sport. And it is extremely detrimental in Pairs where there are only 8 spots per GP event to begin with. How is it helpful to developing the sport when, at some GPs two or three countries take up 75% of the pairs spots (SkAm, GP Italia)?

Japan doesn't deserve more men's spots than the US though, does it?

I don't think that Russia has the top 6-7 women in the world at the moment. On a perfect day, maybe but I think, past the top 4, there is some weakness - both Kostornaia and, especially, Khromykh benefited from slightly weaker GP fields at at least one of their events. I won't be surprised if Sakamoto beats both of them at the GPF.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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52,518
I don't think that Russian women having 3 spots in 4 of the GPs and starting out with 2 spots in the other 2 is particularly beneficial to the development of the sport. And it is extremely detrimental in Pairs where there are only 8 spots per GP event to begin with. How is it helpful to developing the sport when, at some GPs two or three countries take up 75% of the pairs spots (SkAm, GP Italia)?

Japan doesn't deserve more men's spots than the US though, does it?

I don't think that Russia has the top 6-7 women in the world at the moment. On a perfect day, maybe but I think, past the top 4, there is some weakness - both Kostornaia and, especially, Khromykh benefited from slightly weaker GP fields at at least one of their events. I won't be surprised if Sakamoto beats both of them at the GPF.
Also B/K benefitted from a weak pairs field at IdF but that happens in GP. Sakamoto may have benefitted from WD by two Russian ladies.

I don't know what the solution would be though. The GP's have always had the luck factor.
 

becca

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20,884
I don't think that Russian women having 3 spots in 4 of the GPs and starting out with 2 spots in the other 2 is particularly beneficial to the development of the sport. And it is extremely detrimental in Pairs where there are only 8 spots per GP event to begin with. How is it helpful to developing the sport when, at some GPs two or three countries take up 75% of the pairs spots (SkAm, GP Italia)?

Japan doesn't deserve more men's spots than the US though, does it?

I don't think that Russia has the top 6-7 women in the world at the moment. On a perfect day, maybe but I think, past the top 4, there is some weakness - both Kostornaia and, especially, Khromykh benefited from slightly weaker GP fields at at least one of their events. I won't be surprised if Sakamoto beats both of them at the GPF.
Kostornaia has a triple axel. Yes I think it’s possible Sakamoto may be beat her as the fifth Russian.

But I think if she skater for another country with her technical content she would have higher PCs as that countries number one. If she skated for the US her PCS would be unreal.

I think case can be made for more US men too. This being said how much of the development issue is just other federations not doing the job of marketing the sport?

I am not taking about the lesser known countries but the US and Canada?

No one is marketing the sport like Russia. Japan too.

As for pairs development I am convinced good pairs are very hard to develop and there is a reason Russia repeatedly has good ones time and time again.
 
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Cherub721

YEAH!
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17,516
I don't think that Russia has the top 6-7 women in the world at the moment. On a perfect day, maybe but I think, past the top 4, there is some weakness - both Kostornaia and, especially, Khromykh benefited from slightly weaker GP fields at at least one of their events. I won't be surprised if Sakamoto beats both of them at the GPF.

They literally have the top 6 season's best scores, but Akateva isn't age-eligible, so Sakamoto making GPF works out so that the top 6 scoring ladies (aside from Trusova after her WD) are in GPF.

1Kamila Valieva
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
272.712021 Rostelecom Cup
2Anna Shcherbakova
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Russia
236.782021 Gran Premio d'Italia
3Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
233.302021 Finlandia Trophy
4Sofia Akateva
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
233.082021 JGP Russia
5Alexandra Trusova
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
232.372021 Skate America
6Maiia Khromykh
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
226.352021 Gran Premio d'Italia
7Kaori Sakamoto
23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png
Japan
223.342021 NHK Trophy
8Alena Kostornaia
23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
Russia
221.852021 Internationaux de France
 

becca

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Messages
20,884
Personally when talking about more spots for dominate nations I would rather see it effect multiple spots for other nations that are mediocre.

For example I would rather see a fourth Russian girl than a third US lady or a fourth Russian pair than second US pair even another Canadian pair.

And to be fair don’t particularly feel a third Russian dance team is needed lol 😂
 

Scott512

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Messages
596
To be honest I can’t help feeling part of the problem is only three Russians can compete.

I mean Eteri told Med to retire but it was mainly because Med was unlikely to get quads.

So I think some in this generation are likely to stay longer. However how difficult it is to make major teams in Russia I think has to play a role.

Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing a rule change that gives more spots due to making GPF.

We cannot Blame these girls for quiting when it is so hard to even get out of Russia.

Russia really markets the sport to which is why so many take it up.

I see the point about age rules but we could point out that part of why Kamila is getting the scores she is getting is because she is a very balanced skater in comparison than some of her older compatriots.
I agree on all your points especially having the GPF determine if a country gets an extra spot or at worlds or the Olympics or not. It's time to bring this niche sport into the 21st century and have it compete with tennis and golf and soccer and so on

I mean if sasha did not get injured Russia would have garnered all 6 Grand Prix final spots that should mean 2 extra Olympic spots. It's not good that many countries have as many ladies in the Olympics and worlds than Russia does.

It's a sport and it's a competition. The best need to compete against each other in the top events like a other sports.

It's long overdue for the ISU to be overhauled with younger minds. I hope the leaders don't think they get to stay as long on the job as fouchi has. ;) I mean we have to overturn things sometimes to get new ideas and new leaders.
 

Scott512

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Messages
596
Personally when talking about more spots for dominate nations I would rather see it effect multiple spots for other nations that are mediocre.

For example I would rather see a fourth Russian girl than a third US lady or a fourth Russian pair than second US pair even another Canadian pair.

And to be fair don’t particularly feel a third Russian dance team is needed lol 😂
Brilliant!

Is your quip about the 3rd Russian dance team about Diana and gleb.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
They literally have the top 6 season's best scores, but Akateva isn't age-eligible, so Sakamoto making GPF works out so that the top 6 scoring ladies (aside from Trusova after her WD) are in GPF.

If sasha wasn't injured Russia certainly would have gotten all 6GPF spots instead of 5 of the 6. Whether they have 9 of the top 10 ladies in the world or 8 of the top 10 is debatable. I would venture to say 12 of the top 16. But it's a moot point because nothing's going to change. It's like hoping politicians change that never happens.
 

Karen-W

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13,423
Also B/K benefitted from a weak pairs field at IdF but that happens in GP. Sakamoto may have benefitted from WD by two Russian ladies.

I don't know what the solution would be though. The GP's have always had the luck factor.
I think both Sakamoto and You, like most of the rest of the world, came in a bit intimidated at SkAm at the thought of "how do we beat the Russian juggernaut" and skated tight in the SP as a result. Then, in the FS, they were like "don't got nothing to lose" and went for broke and, in the process, beat both Usacheva and Sinitsyna, which probably helped them both at NHK. I feel pretty comfortable in believing that they both, as well as Kawabe, would have beaten Usacheva at NHK. Trusova, probably not, but when you're staring down a barrel of 4-6 Russian women you have to get through rather than 8, perhaps the mindset changes for women from other countries.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
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13,129
I have less an issue with Kamila’s age but more the concern she will retire at 15 after OGM when she is no where near her artistical peak. She could be even better and actually match her artistry with her technical in time.
 

love_skate2011

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3,591
Is there any news regarding Usacheva's injury? I know she has no shot at the Olympics, but I hope she makes it to Nationals next month.
No Chance, a fracture Hip doesn't heal in a month, think about it even Trusova just got back on the ice from her foot fracture.
No news yet if Usacheva needs to undergo surgery.
 

Karen-W

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13,423
No Chance, a fracture Hip doesn't heal in a month, think about it even Trusova just got back on the ice from her foot fracture.
No news yet if Usacheva needs to undergo surgery.
Do we know for sure Trusova is back on the ice? Haven't seen anything on her IG to indicate what her status is.
 

Scott512

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Messages
596
She did not. She tried to skate three more seasons with Zhiganshin, Sinitsina’s previous partner. They even competed at GPF, Europeans and worlds in their first season. Then Zhiganshin retired, after they missed on third place at the nationals with only 0.17 of points and therefore missed Europeans and worlds.

Then she tried to skate with Shibnev, but that was a waste of time. The guy could not skate to save his life! The she couldn’t find anyone better so she retired too.
It's quite shocking that a dance skater as good as Elena could not get a high level partner after the 2014 winter Olympic. She did try to go forward with figure skating but could not get the partner and probably figured why the hell put yourself through this.

Now she has her own family so she's probably very happy post career.
 

DreamSkates

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2,805
Anna is on the team. Kamila is on the team. Unless something unforeseen happens and we still don't know the ********* situation in China and who's going to get vaccinated or not and if it will be recognized in China or not.

Liza is rock solid and you can count on her but we don't know about sasha we don't know about her physical condition we don't know about if she's practicing well we don't know if she will be at nationals. We assume so but we just don't know when everything is more clouded having the Olympics in the middle of a world wide endemic.

Liza has had 2 chances at the Olympics and Sasha has had none until this Olympic cycle. Everything's going wrong for this girl so far but if her foot has healed she could get the 3rd spot. It's totally up for grabs being realistic. This is Lizas 3rd chance to make an Olympic team and this is sasha's 1st and only chance. She won't be there in 4 years time. Yeah sasha has punished her body like no lady ever has with all these quads. You can't possibly last until the 2026 Olympics.

But should we fans and the skaters themselves really have such agony over the Olympic spot when unless something unforeseen happens we know in November who's going to win?
We may think we know who could win the gold medal but that is not entirely predictable even with Valieva’s potential score. Let’s she how she does under Olympic pressure. In China.
 

Scott512

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596
We may think we know who could win the gold medal but that is not entirely predictable even with Valieva’s potential score. Let’s she how she does under Olympic pressure. In China.
Absolutely the Olympic pressure will be different for this girl Kamila especially if she's undefeated in her debut senior season going into the Olympics.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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52,518
It's quite shocking that a dance skater as good as Elena could not get a high level partner after the 2014 winter Olympic. She did try to go forward with figure skating but could not get the partner and probably figured why the hell put yourself through this.

Now she has her own family so she's probably very happy post career.
I am glad that she is happy but as a FS fan it seemed like such a waste of talent! Her partner dumped her and she skated with whoever was available. She tried to make it work with two, but the partners were just not good enough. I don't think it is easy to find a really talented male partner in ice dance.

She has moved on with her life, and from what I read, she is happy about the success her former partner has had. That is good for her.
 

Lilia A

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3,134
Do we know for sure Trusova is back on the ice? Haven't seen anything on her IG to indicate what her status is.

I did as much digging as you can do without an official source. We don't know anything. We know she's been at Khrustalny from IG posts and stories by younger students, but she's always seen leaving the off ice training area. We don't know that she's actually back on the ice.

As for Usacheva, I don't expect to see her compete the rest of this season. I don't think her career is over by any means, but if she wants to be able to compete she needs to not rush back to the ice. We don't even know exactly what she has, but if it's an avulsion fracture it should heal with proper (and I mean proper) rest and care.
 

MsZem

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16,980
I agree on all your points especially having the GPF determine if a country gets an extra spot or at worlds or the Olympics or not. It's time to bring this niche sport into the 21st century and have it compete with tennis and golf and soccer and so on.
There are limits on the number of athletes each country can send to the Olympics in those sports, too. For Tokyo, tennis and golf had up to four entries from each country in much bigger fields than skating, and world rankings played a big role in who could qualify. There's plenty to criticize the IOC for, but one of the good things about the Olympics is the opportunity for athletes from many countries to take part.

Skating in most countries is indeed a niche sport; it never has and never will have the sort of global appeal that soccer does.
 
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Karen-W

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Wasnt there a Documentary filmed in end of Oct, or was her presence for show, lol

Uhm - we don't see anything from the knees down? For all we know she could have been in a walking boot standing on the ice with the rest of the group.

Do we know for sure when that was filmed? Couldn't have been the end of October - that was the week of Skate Canada. Eteri was traveling for the GP the past 6 weeks and, I think the only week those 4 women (Aliona, Sasha, Kamila & Anna) weren't on the GP was the week of NHK - did Eteri go home between GP Italia and NHK? If so, that would have been 3 weeks ago, which was just 2 weeks after SkAm where it became public knowledge about Sasha's stress fracture. She certainly wouldn't have been healed by then.

If there isn't something more recent, which shows her back on the ice and jumping, then I'd hazard a guess she is not yet cleared for action.
 

love_skate2011

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Uhm - we don't see anything from the knees down? For all we know she could have been in a walking boot standing on the ice with the rest of the group.

Do we know for sure when that was filmed? Couldn't have been the end of October - that was the week of Skate Canada. Eteri was traveling for the GP the past 6 weeks and, I think the only week those 4 women (Aliona, Sasha, Kamila & Anna) weren't on the GP was the week of NHK - did Eteri go home between GP Italia and NHK? If so, that would have been 3 weeks ago, which was just 2 weeks after SkAm where it became public knowledge about Sasha's stress fracture. She certainly wouldn't have been healed by then.

If there isn't something more recent, which shows her back on the ice and jumping, then I'd hazard a guess she is not yet cleared for action.
there are instagram pictures of her on the ice, no jumping videos I have seen so far.

the rumors of Trusova being put in kids skating is true, not sure what that means

 

hanca

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It's quite shocking that a dance skater as good as Elena could not get a high level partner after the 2014 winter Olympic. She did try to go forward with figure skating but could not get the partner and probably figured why the hell put yourself through this.

Now she has her own family so she's probably very happy post career.
It is not shocking. Most of top level ice dancers would not be able to find another partner. There are no unattached high level partners available whenever you need them. If Papadakis/Cizeron split up from whatever reason (e.g. one of them may be force to retirement by injury), there wouldn’t be that big choice for the remaining skater to find a new partner. There are not unattached high level partners waiting for the opportunity. Why do you think Abachkina retired for thee seasons? She was promising, but could not find a partner. Then there was an opportunity so she came back, but now they split up again, let’s see how long it will take to ind someone else. It is quite possible that she will retire again.
 

MsZem

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It is not shocking. Most of top level ice dancers would not be able to find another partner. There are no unattached high level partners available whenever you need them. If Papadakis/Cizeron split up from whatever reason (e.g. one of them may be force to retirement by injury), there wouldn’t be that big choice for the remaining skater to find a new partner. There are not unattached high level partners waiting for the opportunity.
Just a few years before the I/K split, both Vanessa Crone and Emily Samuelson were unable to find someone new after their partnerships ended. Samuelson competed briefly with Todd Gilles, but Crone's ice dance career ended completely. They weren't quite as accomplished as Ilinykh, but they were good skaters who had finished in the top ten at Worlds and medalled at 4CC and on the GP circuit.

It is easier for men to find a new partner, but even then there are no guarantees.
 

hanca

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It is easier for men to find a new partner, but even then there are no guarantees.
It is easier in pairs because within a year or two one can make a decent pair skater out of singles skater. In ice dance it wouldn’t work, so if an ice dance couple split up, there usually are not that many options around.
 

MsZem

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It is easier in pairs because within a year or two one can make a decent pair skater out of singles skater. In ice dance it wouldn’t work, so if an ice dance couple split up, there usually are not that many options around.
Well, in the small sample of Crone/Poirier, Samuelson/Bates, and Ilinykh/Katsalapov, all the men have since medalled at Worlds, and all the women are no longer skating competitively.

Further down the ranks, Michael Parsons didn't seem to have much trouble finding a new partner when his sister retired. Neither did Chris Reed a few years before him.

OTOH, both Hurtado and Diaz were able to find new partners after their split, though Adrian did so faster than Sara.

Anyway I don't think any of the Russian women will be taking up pairs or ice dance (really, none of them have the skating skills for the latter...)
 

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