Russian figure skating news & updates in 2022

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
No matter what you are being told, certainly a 16 year old can ask themselves "I am accused of having an unfair advantage by consuming/receiving a substance that is forbidden in my sport - is there any truth to that?"

They’re giving her an answer to that question, though - most likely either by lying to her about what she was taking, or telling her that all the skaters from other countries are taking the same thing and she’s being unfairly targeted because she’s Russian. How is she supposed to know that’s not true?

If she genuinely thinks she’s a good person who would never intentionally break the rules, it would be pretty normal - especially for a teenager - not to question a narrative that supports her perception of who she is.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,105
I think I fell into the trap of mentally comparing her to Australian swimmers (specifically Ian Thorpe) who at 16/17 was giving interviews about the huge lengths he went to ensure that none of his food was contaminated to the point he refused to take supplements.

BUT you are all right that the difference is that he was trained to do that by his coaches in the midst of a totally different culutre.

So I think the only conclusion is that this Russian skating situation is broken beyond repair. How then can we ever have these athletes back in competition and trust them?
 

Holy Headband

Gubanova OGM2026 truther
Messages
1,070
No matter what you are being told, certainly a 16 year old can ask themselves "I am accused of having an unfair advantage by consuming/receiving a substance that is forbidden in my sport - is there any truth to that?" I did test positive so how do I believe it was in my system - I drank out of a glass belonging to my grandfather and so my sample was innocently tainted - or - I and perhaps others I train with have been administered this substance with the clear intent to give us an unfair advantage?
I'm sure she's well aware she was aided by illegal performance-enhancing drugs. Now, I'm also sure Eteri's resident quack doctor hands out pills and injections without any explanation, so her skaters may not always know what exactly they're taking or why, but you'd have to be a total idiot not to realise that the mysterious and elaborately timed drug regimen you're on is against the rules.

The justifications Eteri and co. have drilled into her head are most likely along the lines of, everyone dopes, but the world is against Russia, so only we get caught, the rules exist to keep Russian skaters down because the West can't stand us being so much better than them, the list of banned substances includes benign supplements and medically necessary drugs that are popular in Russia but doesn't include similar drugs that western skaters use en masse, which is yet more proof of anti-Russian bias, I'm the best in the world with or without drugs, we were told everything would be okay with this drug, but someone in RUSADA/WADA/ISU/IOC backstabbed us to keep me from winning, etc. etc. etc.
 
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Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,540
No I do not, nor have i ever said that and I have previously always been very compassionate towards her. We are now months away from the pain and drama of the Olympics. I would assume she has had time away from the spotlight and time with family and friends to discuss this. I personally do not think she should ever be expected to speak about it. For me, the theme of this program, the way she pulled the hood up, is off putting. And I have never claimed to do the right thing all the time. My heart went out to her tremendously at the time but not so much now JMHO.
I'd say yours is a fair opinion. I'd say that since it's impossible to know what's happening and it seems like treacherous waters with the Russian state program, it might be better to give her the benefit of the doubt. I don't know why she's saying what she's saying currently. I do disagree that 16 is too young to have any sense of personal responsibility for the program, but I also do still sympathise with her. I think these feelings can co-exist.

One thing I'll point out that, if it weren't all very confusing and involving abuse, I think people are neglecting to mention that a 16 year old would very much try to shift blame all on her own, IMO. So that's one more factor that might make Valieva ready to accept what's being told to her. That she very much didn't do anything wrong at all, it's this guy and that guy, and also why it's not all so clear-cut about it just being about a 16 year old being too young. Might note that down under "manipulative coach" though.

ETA: And again, for me, not the doping, just the program.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,105
The cushion of the huge popularity in Russian skating at the moment gives them the leverage to alienate the whole international skating community. They can seclude themselves away in a little bubble of their own with big expensive competitions for the next while.

These bubbles don’t last forever though. Without international competitions and medals they are going to need to work hard to keep the public’s attention.

It’s going to be a bit of an adjustment for a future crop of Russian skaters who may actually need international support and opportunities.

But probably by the time that has occurred the consequences and perhaps final conclusion of the war and whatnot might leave Russia a quite different place to what it is now.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,267
It’s bizarre to say we won’t know where Russian skating is until the geopolitical situation is clearer, but it’s true. Anything from a widening of the war to a coup against Putin is possible and could put Russia further into or farther from pariah status. It will impact athletes and other celebs seen as close to Putin, as well.

If, a year from now, there’s something like the Nuremberg trials holding Russians accountable for mass murder of civilians, the world won’t happily welcome Russian athletes and artists back. If the world decides the pain of sanctions is costing the rest of us too much, things could be normalized more quickly. But I don’t think we can predict what’s going to happen and when.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,105
You know what… Valieva program was likely a publicity stunt.

So to keep the sport alive, they are now doing made for TV exhibition comps. Test skates were a big production.

Tutberidze has Shcherbakova, Trusova and Kostornaya all injured. Valieva doesn’t have quads or 3A. She has couple of young girls with lesser profile, but the ability to do a quad doesn’t have the shock and awe factor it used to.

If she loses eyeballs, she loses the ability to keep the sport going and the funding in this new environment.

So this program was perfect to ensure some big huge media focus landed on this event.

These girls are probably going to have to work hard to keep the media attention rolling when there are no real competitions and it looks like injuries have taken their toll.

Kostornaya’s ability to produce drama actually might end up being an asset to Tutberidze now.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,540
It’s bizarre to say we won’t know where Russian skating is until the geopolitical situation is clearer, but it’s true. Anything from a widening of the war to a coup against Putin is possible and could put Russia further into or farther from pariah status. It will impact athletes and other celebs seen as close to Putin, as well.

If, a year from now, there’s something like the Nuremberg trials holding Russians accountable for mass murder of civilians, the world won’t happily welcome Russian athletes and artists back. If the world decides the pain of sanctions is costing the rest of us too much, things could be normalized more quickly. But I don’t think we can predict what’s going to happen and when.
I used to think it would be over within two years, but more and more I feel it's gone for the entire quad.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
51,363
nd I don't think it's fair to try to pigeonhole Valieva into a place where she's a perpetrator and not a victim.
and vice versa. I find all of the "poor, poor Valieva" posts to be as :huh: as the "lock 'er up and throw away the key" posts. She is 16 and we've seen other High School students respond better to similar situations. I think the truth is somewhere in between in terms of how much agency she does or does not have, what kind of information she has, and what kind of values she has.

After all, she definitely knows that it was a Russian's fault her sample from Nationals was not tested in a timely manner. That isn't the fault of the West at all.

I know that most innocent people, when failing a drug test, say that they don't dope, they don't understand how the dope got into their system, and they are going to get to the bottom of this so they never fail a drug test again. They also demand that the B sample be tested in case it was a false positive. (Heck, even people who do dope say things like that.) What innocent people don't do is make up an entirely unbelievable (and basically impossible) scenario and then create a FS that shows they think they are a martyr being persecuted by the evil West.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
22,976
After all, she definitely knows that it was a Russian's fault her sample from Nationals was not tested in a timely manner. That isn't the fault of the West at all.
Oh, but it is! After all, the test sample had to be sent to a lab in Stockholm rather than tested in Moscow. And that's because the West, so unfairly, has suspended any and all Russian labs from completing the testing of the urine samples. At least, this is what I assume she's been told.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
71,432
It’s bizarre to say we won’t know where Russian skating is until the geopolitical situation is clearer, but it’s true. Anything from a widening of the war to a coup against Putin is possible and could put Russia further into or farther from pariah status. It will impact athletes and other celebs seen as close to Putin, as well.

If, a year from now, there’s something like the Nuremberg trials holding Russians accountable for mass murder of civilians, the world won’t happily welcome Russian athletes and artists back. If the world decides the pain of sanctions is costing the rest of us too much, things could be normalized more quickly. But I don’t think we can predict what’s going to happen and when.
Really? They welcomed Germany including East Germany and Japan and the US after dropping the H bomb and killing thousands of civilians. They currently haven't banned Azerbaijan for attacking Armenia. Or Syria. No country was banned after Munich. Isreal wasn't banned. Lebanon. Egypt after the 6 day war. And on and on and on.
 

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Brainwashing is a hell of a drug. You can brainwash an adult into falsely admitting to a crime they didn’t commit. Imagine what you can brainwash a teenager without a fully formed brain into believing, especially if you raise them in a completely unstable and hostile situation.

It’s not like we even have to look as far as Russia to find examples. When people are raised to accept what authority figures tell them without question and not to think critically about big issues, it’s not a skill that usually tends to develop on its own. And I’d be willing to bet that a lot of us in the U.S. know people with the same mindset - we’re not doing great on that front culturally, either. Plenty of people in the world, including teenagers and adults, will believe whatever powerful people say, especially when it’s the “easy” thing to do. So whose particular sphere of influence are they in? With Valieva, we know that answer.

As to whether it’s fair to blame people for not questioning authority, I don’t know. My personal experience is that most people don’t spontaneously develop that skill - as kids, they’re either taught to ask questions, or they’re taught not to ask questions.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,267
Really? They welcomed Germany including East Germany and Japan and the US after dropping the H bomb and killing thousands of civilians. They currently haven't banned Azerbaijan for attacking Armenia. Or Syria. No country was banned after Munich. Isreal wasn't banned. Lebanon. Egypt after the 6 day war. And on and on and on.
Uh, no. Germany and Japan were still banned by the 1948 Olympics: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/07/23/japan-olympics-history/

Three years after the war was ended and both countries had had full political makeovers. By that standard, Russia won’t even be back by Milan 2026.

Long-running hostilities (Armenia/Azerbaijan, Israel/Palestine/Lebanon etc, India/Pakistan) don’t seem to matter in most instances because who is the aggressor is unclear or hotly debated. Not so here.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,105
In terms of skating, my concerns lie with the doping culture because that is directly perpetrated by the skaters and coaches and is entirely of their doing. It’s also in their control.

The war is much more complicated and is a different kind of issue. The skaters and coaches don’t control the war - but they are directly responsible for the doping and cheating culture of their sport.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,462
These girls are probably going to have to work hard to keep the media attention rolling when there are no real competitions and it looks like injuries have taken their toll.

Kostornaya’s ability to produce drama actually might end up being an asset to Tutberidze now.
I don’t think there will be any problems with keeping the media and the public interested. Skating has a huge tradition in Russia, a bit like ballet. Ballet doesn’t have international competitions and yet people will continue to buy tickets and go and watch it. I think the Russian public likes to watch skating for the skating itself, not just the medals. If it was any other country, you would be right, but in Russia skating will continue.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,462
Long-running hostilities (Armenia/Azerbaijan, Israel/Palestine/Lebanon etc, India/Pakistan) don’t seem to matter in most instances because who is the aggressor is unclear or hotly debated. Not so here.
Wow, that’s ok then to be killing other people, as long as it is in long-running hostilities. If in doubt about who is the aggressor, why don’t they ban both sides then?
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,267
Wow, that’s ok then to be killing other people, as long as it is in long-running hostilities. If in doubt about who is the aggressor, why don’t they ban both sides then?
For the first time with you, I have to say that’s such a stupid post it doesn’t deserve an answer. You’re determined to whatabout this Russian invasion, you just have at it.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,175
Really? They welcomed Germany including East Germany and Japan and the US after dropping the H bomb and killing thousands of civilians. They currently haven't banned Azerbaijan for attacking Armenia. Or Syria. No country was banned after Munich. Isreal wasn't banned. Lebanon. Egypt after the 6 day war. And on and on and on.
In addition to being banned in 1948 after WWII as mentioned above, Germany was also banned in 1920 and 1924 after WWI. From Wikipedia:

In addition, Germany had been selected to host the 1916 Summer Olympics as well as the 1940 Winter Olympics, both of which had to be cancelled due to World Wars. After these wars, Germans were banned from participating in 1920, 1924 and 1948.
 

nlloyd

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,191
Ballet doesn’t have international competitions and yet people will continue to buy tickets and go and watch it. I think the Russian public likes to watch skating for the skating itself, not just the medals. If it was any other country, you would be right, but in Russia skating will continue.
Ballet does have international competitions - some quite prestigious. Perhaps you mean that the popularity of ballet is not dependent upon competitions.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,540
Wow, that’s ok then to be killing other people, as long as it is in long-running hostilities. If in doubt about who is the aggressor, why don’t they ban both sides then?
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
23,925
I think that the Russian program will be seriously, financially affected by whatever happens in the coming months.

Let's say he is forced to withdraw from Ukraine (I don't know how, if, or when that would happen), their economy is so fragile now, I'd be surprised if the state run rinks and other things can be maintained. The lure of housing, annual allowance from the state will diminish as the State's funding dusapoears.

If he is overthrown or killed by a member of his circle - that person may have different priorities and no longer fund or be able to fund - depending on the state of the state coffers.

The length of time before ISU does allow, if they do allow, - the financial conditions of Russia, lack of training or recruiting of potential skaters may make them.

It may be a mute point at this time
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
Messages
18,465
I think that the Russian program will be seriously, financially affected by whatever happens in the coming months.

Let's say he is forced to withdraw from Ukraine (I don't know how, if, or when that would happen), their economy is so fragile now, I'd be surprised if the state run rinks and other things can be maintained. The lure of housing, annual allowance from the state will diminish as the State's funding dusapoears.

If he is overthrown or killed by a member of his circle - that person may have different priorities and no longer fund or be able to fund - depending on the state of the state coffers.

The length of time before ISU does allow, if they do allow, - the financial conditions of Russia, lack of training or recruiting of potential skaters may make them.

It may be a mute point at this time
You are 100% correct. I’m not counting on seeing Russian skaters for a couple of Olympic cycles. Forget 2026 and the current quad. Maybe 2030?
 

Irina89

New Member
Messages
5
The programme is not even that good. She could have sent the same message with a better one. I think she is being used by the regime for propaganda purposes. Whether she likes it and agrees with it is a different matter. It does remind me of the way Nadia was been used by the communists.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,462
For the first time with you, I have to say that’s such a stupid post it doesn’t deserve an answer. You’re determined to whatabout this Russian invasion, you just have at it.
I am not justifying the Russian invasion. I am definitely against it. But at the same time, I am not pretending that some wars are ok because they are “approved” by the western countries, whereas other wars are wrong. All wars are wrong! People are killed in all wars, not just in some.
 

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